Helpful ReplyAdvise On Microphone Purchase

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Johnbee58
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2015/11/08 16:43:34 (permalink)

Advise On Microphone Purchase

Hi
 
I've been a Sonar X3 user for a year and a half.  I've been using my trusty Peavey PVM 38 dynamic microphone for over 20 years of home recording.  All the way back to my 4 track cassette days up until my present Sonar days.  It still works fine but I'm thinking about upgrading to a more professional mic.  I'm considering this:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CV12?utm_source=MSN&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&utm_term=Bing_PLA_All_Products&device=c
 
My Peavey still works fine, but what I'm looking for in a better mic would be a cleaner sound with less tendency to clip on louder passages on vocals.  Last year I bought a cheapo Apex condenser mic (going by recommendations that condenser mics are ALWAYS better for recording) but it SUCKS!!  I paid less than $100.00 for it, but I don't want to take a chance of throwing $500.00 away on this mic if it is not going to give me a noticeable difference in the sound.  Many retailers will not take back microphones after purchase, so I need to make sure it will meet my needs.  Another thing I'm wondering is if the mic would be too "professional" for the DAW I'm using.  I only paid $200.00 for Sonar X3 Studio and this mic is $500.00.  It seems a bit off balance that the mic would be the most expensive part of my studio and that I only do this as a hobby  Has anybody ever used this kind of mic?  Your thoughts?
 
Thanks
John B.

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#1
Leadfoot
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:26:09 (permalink)
The CV12 is supposed to be copied off of the famed AKG C12. I have heard many good things about the CV12, and am actually planning on buying one myself. I think you would be happy with this mic.
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jpetersen
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:29:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joel77 2015/11/08 21:07:17
Condensers are very sensitive at a distance and pick up everything including reflections from walls, ceilings, floors, pipes, mirrors, furniture, cars passing outside, the lot. For a good condenser, you need a good sound-damped room
 
After much cash spent on Neumanns, etc., I got a Shure SM7B (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM7B). It is a dynamic, not a condenser and ideal for non-ideal recording environments.
 
It is absolutely pop-proof, I only need a popshield to stop artists spit hitting it. (!?!)
 
And it has switches on the back to set the frequency response. I prefer Flat with Bass Rolloff set to ON. Some like the Presence boost setting which gives you the classic Shure SM58 rock mic upper frequency boost. Two-in-one.
 
It admittedly does have a low output, but unless I am recording a weak voice, my very basic Cakewalk/Edirol UA-25EX interface has always had plenty gain to spare.
 
post edited by jpetersen - 2015/11/08 17:50:03
#3
gustabo
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:36:38 (permalink)
If you go with an SM7B, I highly recommend a Cloudlifter CL-1 to go with it.


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konradh
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:38:44 (permalink)
If I could only have one mic, it wold be my ElecrtoVoice RE-20. It's great for vocals, but also for kick drum, guitar amp, and almost anything else.  Being dynamic, it does not need phantom power and it can take a lot of level.  It comes with a bass roll-off switch which I engage for everything except kick drum and bass guitar amp.  (I might also leave it off for a bass singer in a Gospel quarter or operatic situation.)  This mic is also the gold standard for radio and narration.
 
It is rugged and not really expensive as far as professional mics go.
 
I'd rather have something else for string quartets and other special situations,  but, honestly, in a world of virtual instruments, those situations don't come up that often; and if I only had the RE-20, I'd make it work.
 
You will get 1,000 suggestions here and I will bet they are all good; but that one is my workhorse.
 
One footnote: Craig Anderton mastered my most recent album and there was only one song that he thought did not need any additional vocal EQ.  It was the track I did with the RE-20.
post edited by konradh - 2015/11/08 17:51:53

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#5
Zargg
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:38:50 (permalink)
I really like my Heil PR40. Anyway, check second hand if you want to save some money.
Best of luck.

Ken Nilsen
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#6
lawajava
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/08 17:38:53 (permalink)
I'm not the only one on the forum who is a fan of this mic. It can be found new at about $300.

It's truly fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnq0JrOvfUo

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Vastman
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 00:02:11 (permalink)
lawajava
I'm not the only one on the forum who is a fan of this mic. It can be found new at about $300.

It's truly fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnq0JrOvfUo

The CAD Equitek E100s is the sweetest creation I've ever had the pleasure of acquiring... and, the only high end mic made in the US...
 
I have a dozen decent $100-$400 mics.  Gave them all to a friend... The E100s made me do it with a smile
 
lowest noise level, clarity, warmth, essence... it'll blow ur mind... Nothing comes close to this mic.
 
Beat out the Neuman U87 mic, which costs $2700 IN BLIND TESTS
 
Detailed Review, specs, construction, and everything, including it's awesome floating iso system...
Watch this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlnQqAW_eog
 
post edited by Vastman - 2015/11/09 00:22:17

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#8
tlw
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 00:49:08 (permalink)
Johnbee58
Another thing I'm wondering is if the mic would be too "professional" for the DAW I'm using.  I only paid $200.00 for Sonar X3 Studio and this mic is $500.00.  It seems a bit off balance that the mic would be the most expensive part of my studio and that I only do this as a hobby  Has anybody ever used this kind of mic?  Your thoughts?


Sonar, all versions, is as professional as any other DAW. These days all the major DAWs are equally capable of professional results to the extent that it's impossible to tell by listening which was used to produce a particular track. The only difference between a Studio and Producer version of Sonar is a few functions and which plugins are included. Studio's audio engine and the stuff that matters for sound quality is the same as in the Producer or Platinum versions.

What do you intend to use the microphone for? Just vocals? You're right about very cheap condensers generally not being very good, but there are lots of quite acceptable ones in your price range. Also lots of good dynamic mics, including the industry standard and not expensive SM57 and SM58.

As for any "balance" between the cost of the DAW software and studio hardware, there's nothing to consider. Two completely different things.
post edited by tlw - 2015/11/09 00:59:52

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#9
joel77
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 08:27:51 (permalink)
jpetersen
Condensers are very sensitive at a distance and pick up everything including reflections from walls, ceilings, floors, pipes, mirrors, furniture, cars passing outside, the lot. For a good condenser, you need a good sound-damped room
 

 
I have to agree with Jay. If you don't make an effort to control your room, any condenser might sound different than you expect, as it'll be picking up reflections bouncing off walls, ceilings and floors. The more sensitive your mic, the more of your room you're going to hear.

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Johnbee58
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 09:11:41 (permalink)
Thanks to all.  I DO have a small studio (5x12) that is carpeted but does need some more reinforcement.  I'm thinking about just buying some cargo blankets to hang them behind my workstation to kill what reflection is left.  That being said, the Apex condenser I have still does not sound very clean compared to my dynamic.  Was just wondering if a better and higher priced tube condenser would sound better than a cheap (-$100.00) condenser and what, if any differences I'd notice.
 
@tlw-Thanks especially for your post.  When I bought Sonar X3 last year I did so because I wanted a "real" DAW for a change.  I guess you just confirmed that I made the right choice.
 
JB

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lawajava
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 09:38:47 (permalink)
I've made strides in sound proofing and of course that helps.

But even without that in place, recording with the CAD Equitek E100s changed my captured vocals from sounding like Tiny Tim (before the CAD) to sounding like Chris Isaac.

I had / have several other mics including expensive condensers and dynamic mics including the Shure SM58.

I've retired my other mics to a drawer since I switched to the CAD.

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#12
AT
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:04:14 (permalink)
A tube condenser is likely to be a worst buy than a FET and noisier to boot.  Especially at the lower end.  But I bet your small room is a problem, too.  A dynamic won't capture much of it while, I guess you have discovered, even a cheap condenser will.  A powered tube condenser will exasperate the bad sound since it will pick up more of the room since it likely has more gain than your interface preamps.  Depending upon the pattern, it will pick this up after rolling off the lows, producing the typical high-frequency scratchy signal.
 
A goody dynamic can produce good rock vocals and in your face production.  Not so good for delicate tone.  I prefer the RE20, but any of them should work in your situation as well as can be expected.  If you prefer a condenser, the C12 is well-liked from what I can tell.  I would be worried about the sound in such a small, untreated space.  I got a CAD Trion tube 8000 and it sounded terrible in my rather larger, but not fully-treated room.  For vocals, you have to get right on up on it, using the proximity effect in order to overcome the low-filtered room reflections.  My fear is that the C12 might suffer the same problems.  My Joly-mod Oktava 319 (FET condenser) has none of those and neither does the Micro Tech Gefell FETI just got.
 
If you just must get a condenser try a cheaper AKG or something and see if a condenser is right for your room.  Or an ebay Oktava 219/319 for a hundred or so (Joly and others can mod it so it is a better mic and great deal for the total outlay).  Since you seem to get hardware for a long time, I'd hate to see you blow a large amount on a mic that causes more problems than it solves for you.

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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:16:21 (permalink)
That really is a good microphone and a helluva bargain at 5 bills. However, given your situation I'm not sure a tube condenser is the best way to go.
 
If you're going to be using it just for vocals (as opposed to, say, acoustic guitars) then you'd probably get better results from a good dynamic mike. You can't go wrong with either the SM7 or the RE20 that have been mentioned above. Both are classics, both are especially good at male rock/pop vocals, and both will do better than a condenser in an acoustically-challenged environment. However, don't dismiss the humble SM58, which is 90% of an SM7 and only a hundred bucks.
 
If you plan on using the microphone for acoustical instruments, then you'll probably want something more versatile - low noise and multiple polar patterns. But that's going to run you a grand or more, and you'll still have to address your room acoustics.


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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:21:11 (permalink)
SM7B.

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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:22:38 (permalink)
Also have a look at the large-diaphragm dynamics from Heil. I have tried them and heard them on stage, and they are like SM58's on steroids. 
 


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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:30:45 (permalink)
When looking for a new mic, there are many options.
You need to narrow down exactly what you're looking for... otherwise it'll be random hit/miss.
Define specifically what you're currently missing... and choose a mic with those particular characteristics.
 
A condenser mic won't be less prone to clipping... they're typically more sensitive.
You need to leave enough headroom so the mic doesn't clip... (you'll have to do this with with any mic)
 
The CV12 mic you're looking at is a knock-off of the AKG C12 (as was mentioned).
The C12 is a classic studio "workhorse" mic... but it's a very colored sound.
Being a condenser, the CV12 will pickup details/nuances that your current dynamic mic doesn't.
As was mentioned, the room and background noise will be captured.
That may or may not be a good thing...
 
The RE20 and SM7B are classic large diaphragm dynamic mics.
Both work well in high SPL situations.
We do a fair bit of VO work here... and the RE20 is absolutely stellar for that purpose.
The newer RE320 is very much in the same realm... but with a boost in the high-mids and hotter output.
 
Classics are classic for a reason (they work).
If you stick with those, you won't get too far off track.
I've had a lot of mics over the years.  The RE20 and SM7B are still here.
 
It's hard to equate the cost of software (directly) with a quality mic.
You will almost surely spend more for a quality mic (or mics).
The quality of your front-end gear ultimately determines the quality of your final product.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#17
Zargg
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 10:42:32 (permalink)
bitflipper
Also have a look at the large-diaphragm dynamics from Heil. I have tried them and heard them on stage, and they are like SM58's on steroids. 
 


I actually chose my Heil PR40 over both the SM7 and the RE20.

Ken Nilsen
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#18
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 12:28:27 (permalink)
Zargg71
 
I actually chose my Heil PR40 over both the SM7 and the RE20.



The PR40 is more like the RE-320   
 
I favor the RE-320 over the RE20 for VO... as it's got a little more definition in the upper mids.
On guitar cab (recording heavy crunch), I prefer the flatter response of the RE20.

Best Regards,

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Zargg
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 15:53:40 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Zargg71
 
I actually chose my Heil PR40 over both the SM7 and the RE20.



The PR40 is more like the RE-320   
 
I favor the RE-320 over the RE20 for VO... as it's got a little more definition in the upper mids.
On guitar cab (recording heavy crunch), I prefer the flatter response of the RE20.


I use mine for vocals only. I love it paired with my LA610.

Ken Nilsen
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#20
batsbrew
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 18:07:50 (permalink)
microphones are your lowest common denominator.
 
you can spend a million bucks on your front end,
but if you have a mediocre mic,
your sound will always be mediocre.
 
now, ask yourself if a good mic purchase is worth it....

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#21
batsbrew
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 18:09:56 (permalink)
for poor room acoustics, this:
 

 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=602650
 
 
will not break the bank.
 

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#22
rebel007
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 20:41:27 (permalink)
There are also places you can hire mics, take them home, and try them in your room. I can't recommend this enough. You'll probably find there's more than one that will grab you. You may find that there will be microphones that will work great on your vocals, and others that work great on your instruments. I'm warning you, you may come back here and say you just had to buy two or three mics.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/09 23:11:28 (permalink)
The other factor is that we each have a unique voice and there's no one mike does it all for ALL vocals. 
The other day I had to try about 4 mikes on a female vocal and the best pick bar none was a Beta 58. 
 
Those Apex mikes are sort of dogs, I have one. It distorts real easily. Works good on people with weak vocals. Not good for me. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/11/09 23:22:31

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#24
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/10 08:25:24 (permalink)
batsbrew
you can spend a million bucks on your front end,
but if you have a mediocre mic,
your sound will always be mediocre.



I was considering mic/s as part of "front-end" gear.  
Great mics are one of the best studio investments.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#25
tlw
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/10 10:00:55 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Classics are classic for a reason (they work).


This.

Unless you've a big budget and can go out and buy as much gear as you happen to feel the need for you're almost certainly going to be better off with a couple of the "classics" than any number of very cheap microphones or a single "distinctive" one.

Valve (or tube, depending where you are) microphones, pre-amps etc. open up a new can of worms. Valves do not sound the same, even if they are electronically interchangable. A 1970s Philips 12AX7 doesn't sound like a same vintage General Electric or a modern JJ-Tesla 12AX7. Which in turn doesn't sound the same as a modern Sovtek and so on. Cheap valve gear also often uses very cheap Chinese valves which are frankly horrible sounding and replacing them with something better can make a real difference, though some guitarists who use high-gain Marshalls seem to like the Chinese valves because they distort nastily and easily.

So before you know it you'll be off down the valve rabbit hole comparing and trying different ones then, especially if New Old Stock valves give you the sound you particularly want buying a substantial number of them before they disappear to make sure you've enough in hand for when one fails. The valves used in mics and preamps tend to last many years but once on a while even a new valve can fail which is why virtually no-one warrantees a valve for more than 90 days. Not even Fender and Marshall. Some valves used in microphones are hard to get hold of at all which doesn't help.

My personal opinion is that it's best to get a couple of "classics" that can be used for many applications and leave the more specialised or oddball microphones alone until you know why you specifically want that particular microphone's sound. Say one large diaphragm condensor that doesn't break the bank and a general purpose dynamic like the SM57. Or a Shure SM7B dynamic which can handle pretty much anything you care to point it at. If you record acoustic guitar, strings or similar a small-diaphragm condensor can also be very useful.

When shopping for a condensor check if an elastic suspension comes with the mic or not, or, like the C1000S, if there's one built in. They can by surprisingly expensive if bought seperately and without one every foot-tap on the floor will be transmitted up the mic stand into the mic and get recorded.

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#26
batsbrew
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/10 10:39:56 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
batsbrew
you can spend a million bucks on your front end,
but if you have a mediocre mic,
your sound will always be mediocre.



I was considering mic/s as part of "front-end" gear.  
Great mics are one of the best studio investments.


not me,
i always give mics their own category.
 
seems that they have so much personality,
they deserve special treatment.


Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
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"The Time is Magic"
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#27
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Advise On Microphone Purchase 2015/11/10 11:38:23 (permalink)


Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#28
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