Helpful ReplyRecording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones?

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Voda La Void
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2015/11/22 19:32:02 (permalink)

Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones?

I'm curious about the effectiveness of noise cancelling headphones during drum recording sessions.  
 
My ears cannot take the level of volume required to get the metronome and music in my headphones loud enough to overcome the invading volume of the acoustic drums.  At the moment, I'm using ear buds with shooting ear muffs squeezed over them and that actually works really good.  
 
But man that is a pain in the ass to take off and on, and I can only take the squeezing on those ear buds for so long and then I need a break.  It's not a permanent solution.  
 
So how do you all do it?  I'm wondering about noise cancelling headphones.  Something easier and more comfortable to take on and off.  

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mikedocy
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/22 20:57:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2015/11/22 22:38:51
I use these (see link) for that purpose. I find that I have to put some of the overheads into the headphone mix or I don't hear enough drums. if you wear glasses the phones will leak a little sound because the frame of your glasses will prevent the phones from sealing to your head.
These things are basically "shooting" ear protectors with transducers built in. They are also good for listening to music while cutting the grass.  :-)
 http://www.extremeheadphones.com/studio-features-benefits/
post edited by mikedocy - 2015/11/22 21:16:40
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Voda La Void
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/22 22:28:05 (permalink)
mikedocy
I use these (see link) for that purpose. I find that I have to put some of the overheads into the headphone mix or I don't hear enough drums. if you wear glasses the phones will leak a little sound because the frame of your glasses will prevent the phones from sealing to your head.
These things are basically "shooting" ear protectors with transducers built in. They are also good for listening to music while cutting the grass.  :-)
 http://www.extremeheadphones.com/studio-features-benefits/


 
Hey that's pretty cool.  Sound isolation might be a better direction for this.  Which model are you using?  I noticed they had a few different ones. 
post edited by Voda La Void - 2015/11/23 13:56:44

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batsbrew
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/23 12:13:13 (permalink)
I HAVE A PAIR OF THESE:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRAS800AP-Active-Smartphone-Headset/dp/B00NBMI5X8?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAJM4NKIQGABP2PIRA&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00NBMI5X8&tag=thewire06-20&ascsubtag=WC59200
 
Made for workout,
would work well for a drummer.
 
in ear, no bleed, also good for tracking vocals when over ear allows bleed..

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Voda La Void
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/23 13:45:31 (permalink)
batsbrew
I HAVE A PAIR OF THESE:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRAS800AP-Active-Smartphone-Headset/dp/B00NBMI5X8?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAJM4NKIQGABP2PIRA&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00NBMI5X8&tag=thewire06-20&ascsubtag=WC59200
 
Made for workout,
would work well for a drummer.
 
in ear, no bleed, also good for tracking vocals when over ear allows bleed..




I didn't see anything about noise isolation or cancellation with these.  Do you notice external noise being incredibly attenuated, like several orders of magnitude, like shooting ear muffs?  
 
I've actually been re-thinking this whole thing and I may just perform a DIY update on my current rig.  If I can harvest the transducers out of a cheap set of headphones and find a way to install them into the ear cavities of my shooting ear muffs, then I'd have a fairly simple and comfortable solution.  Stole the idea from a Youtube video.  

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batsbrew
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/23 14:43:08 (permalink)

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Voda La Void
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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/23 15:22:02 (permalink)
batsbrew
maybe these would work:
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IsoHdph?adpos=1t2&creative=83049424441&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CNiwmfKmp8kCFYKUfgods9cDIg
 




Hey now those ain't bad at all.  And a little cheaper than the EX headphones.  Thanks for the tip.  I'll probably pull the trigger on these.  
 
And this is why I come here to ask questions.  I was down in the wrong rabbit hole, looking at noise cancellation and didn't realize noise isolation was probably the better and way more affordable direction for my broke ass.  
 
Thank you sir.

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Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 08:35:33 (permalink)
I have used the Creative EP-630 buds for years.  I use them to listen to music while driving, cutting the grass, and have even worn them at the shooting range and they work well to block ambient noise in the environment.
 
They are quite comfortable to wear for longer periods due to their soft silicon cups. They provide 3 pairs in small, medium, and large so you can get the perfect fit. I've used these in the studio when tracking vocals and the leakage from these is near zero vs my cans.
 
For $20, you can't go too far wrong. You can look on Amazon and get then for $20 a set or less.
 
http://us.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/ep-630#
 
SPECIFICATIONS
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  • Ultimate music clarity with 9mm Neodymium magnet transducer
  • Soft ergonomic silicone in-ear earbuds provide excellent noise isolation
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 09:58:33 (permalink)
    Noise-cancelling headphones are a ripoff. A good pair of snug-fitting around-the-ears headphones (e.g. Sennheiser HD280Pro) give better isolation than the Bose, for a third the price.
     
    But if 28dB reduction isn't sufficient (which it might not be for a drummer) then IEMs are the way to go. Check these out - only 50 bucks.


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    patm300e
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 11:42:46 (permalink)
    I disagree with you bitflipper...Noise cancelling headphones are not a rip off.  They function nicely to remove outside noise when it is constant like on an airplane.
     
    I agree with you that snug fitting around the ear phones or IEMs are better for studio monitoring.  The noise-cancelling ones will not help at all because typical studios are very quiet.  There's no noise to "cancel".

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    batsbrew
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 12:02:11 (permalink)
    my little sony earbuds work perfectly fine.
    almost nothing comes in...
    almost nothing comes out.
    simple.

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    Voda La Void
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 16:17:45 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker - I appreciate your reply, but I don't find ear buds of any kind to be even remotely comfortable, and they fall out of my ears.  The way they deliver sound even hurts.  Maybe all I've worn are cheapos, but the ones I have now have those little silicone cups and I need them out of my ears after about 15 minutes.  Of course, part of that issue would be the ear muffs squeezing on them, which is the only thing keeping them from falling out while I'm playing. Maybe I'm supposed to penetrate my ear more to keep them in....which just solidifies why I'm not going to use them. 
     
    batsbrew - I'm sorry but I don't see it.  I'm wearing shooting ear muffs and it reduces the sound about perfect - any louder and I'd need more reduction.  The notion that ear buds could block out pounding acoustic drums the same as shooting ear protectors isn't something I'm going to believe.  (Are people playing drums with cloth sticks? I hit drums hard - I'm not nice about it.  I don't play lightly - I have to feel the groove.)  The Vic Firth iso headphones you found are probably going to be perfect.  If they compare at all to shooting ear protectors they will work fabulous.  
     
     

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    batsbrew
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 17:22:07 (permalink)
    Voda La Void
     
    batsbrew - I'm sorry but I don't see it.  




    I meant for anything other than playing drums....
     

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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/11/24 20:18:41 (permalink)
    Voda La Void
    Guitarhacker - I appreciate your reply, but I don't find ear buds of any kind to be even remotely comfortable, and they fall out of my ears.  The way they deliver sound even hurts.  Maybe all I've worn are cheapos, but the ones I have now have those little silicone cups and I need them out of my ears after about 15 minutes.  Of course, part of that issue would be the ear muffs squeezing on them, which is the only thing keeping them from falling out while I'm playing. Maybe I'm supposed to penetrate my ear more to keep them in....which just solidifies why I'm not going to use them. 
     



    With these.... You have to insert them to the point where they block the outside sound. Kind of like putting in ear plugs ... you know when they seal due to the sound change. No high freqs are evident.  I've worn these for several hours and had no pain. The cheaper kind that are hard plastic are painful to me after 10 minutes.

    While the EP-630's are now only about $20.... kind of cheap, when I first got the first pair.... they came with a laptop I bought, and they broke so I wanted to replace them, Dell was selling them for $80 a pair. I found them on Amazon at the time for around $40.... I bought a pair at that price. When those died, the price had dropped to the $20 range and have remained there. The last time I bought some.... I picked up about 6 pairs, they were $15 each.

    Not trying to get you to use them if you don't like them..... but I love them. If you try a pair and don't like them , feel free to mail them to me....I'll gladly use them and take them off your hands.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 11:17:10 (permalink)
    Sound quality and fit/comfort vary enormously among IEMs, and as Herb points out, the price you pay is not a reliable predictor. I've had several over the years, some of which refused to stay in place, some sat comfortably for hours. My favorites were from Shure (the since-discontinued SE-210s), which offered a reasonable compromise between comfort and sound quality.
     
    The biggest problem with IEMs is reliability. Those itty-bitty wires break easily. Those itty-bitty drivers don't handle shock well. Some are prone to getting jammed up with impacted earwax than cannot be easily removed without damaging the driver. I just got tired of replacing them every year, so now I use some cheap Sennheisers, for air travel. They were like 30 bucks, so I won't cry when they inevitably break. 
     
    On the off-topic of airplane usage, I actually did A/B tests on a long flight to Tokyo. I'd borrowed a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones in addition to my two closed-back studio headphones and two IEMs. They all did a decent job of filtering out high-frequency noise, but only the Shure IEMs did anything for the steady low-frequency roar of jet engines. I was especially disappointed with the Bose, which acted more like a low-pass filter than a noise-stopper. In a non-noisy environment (in a hammock under a mango tree), they were quite mediocre-sounding. Not awful, but given their price point I'm sticking with my "ripoff" assessment.
     
    But this is off-topic: due to their percussive nature, drums are actually harder to attenuate than jet engines.
     
    BTW, I did an experiment once using the Shure IEMs with OSHA-approved ear protectors over them. The kind you see the ground crew wearing at the airport. They're too clumsy to wear while playing drums, but wow, talk about isolation!


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    quantumeffect
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 22:38:39 (permalink)
    I had a pair of the Vic Firth head phones and I couldn't stand them.  The wire framework in the headband was poorly engineered and they never fit comfortably or securely.   
     

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    bapu
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 22:47:54 (permalink)
    quantumeffect
    I had a pair of the Vic Firth head phones and I couldn't stand them.  The wire framework in the headband was poorly engineered and they never fit comfortably or securely.   
     


    You sure it was not your head?
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    quantumeffect
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 23:21:20 (permalink)
    Years ago I purchased a set of drummer headphones from an add in Modern Drummer magazine.  Essentially, the company retrofitted transducers into those red ear protectors that the employees would wear at the airport while standing behind a jet.  I still have that pair of headphones and I use them almost everyday for practicing and or recording.
     
    I think the company eventually morphed into "Direct Sound Extreme Isolation".
     
    http://www.extremeheadphones.com/passive-noise-isolation-hearing-protection-headphones/studio-products/
     

    Dave

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 23:30:09 (permalink)
    ... it looks like mikedocy is using them and it sounds like the current models are just as good as the originals.
     
     

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/02 23:32:03 (permalink)
    bapu
    quantumeffect
    I had a pair of the Vic Firth head phones and I couldn't stand them.  The wire framework in the headband was poorly engineered and they never fit comfortably or securely.   
     


    You sure it was not your head?


    No, my misshapen head had nothing to do with it

    Dave

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    mikedocy
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/03 11:11:12 (permalink)
    quantumeffect
    ... it looks like mikedocy is using them and it sounds like the current models are just as good as the originals.



    I use the less expensive model (extremeheadphones) and like it. The headphones don't sound as good as a good pair of studio headphones but the sound is good enough and the isolation and ease of use is what matters to me. The more expensive model is supposed to sound better.
     
    About the headphone vs. in-ear debate: I like the convenience of the over-ear headphones. Easier to put on and take off. More robust. 
     
    post edited by mikedocy - 2015/12/03 12:11:52
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    Leadfoot
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/03 11:52:29 (permalink)
    I actually use industrial style foam earplugs, and then put my headphones on. I hear my drums and the click just fine, and my ears don't ring afterwards.
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    patm300e
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/04 08:47:29 (permalink)
    bit, they only reason I went off topic is to explain that noise cancellation headphones are not made for studio monitoring but for constant noise reduction.
     
    "BTW, I did an experiment once using the Shure IEMs with OSHA-approved ear protectors over them. The kind you see the ground crew wearing at the airport. They're too clumsy to wear while playing drums, but wow, talk about isolation!"
     
    bit, do what Alex Van Halen does and duct tape them to your head!  JK.  I use this method (without the duct tape!) to listen to music while using my leaf blower. While it does work, they hurt after a while. 
     
    I did try the Vic Firth headphones and they weren't too bad, but I gave them to a vocalist and in an attempt to get total isolation she pushed on them hard.  These were the old ones with liquid filled earpieces and they leaked goo all over her! 
     
    So for now I am using cheap Sennheiser 202s (~$20.00 on Amazon).  They work OK for isolation, stay on pretty good and allow one ear piece to be moved off the ear if necessary (since they are DJ cans).
    post edited by patm300e - 2015/12/04 09:01:23

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    Voda La Void
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/08 08:39:10 (permalink)
    Ok, quick update for anyone interested.  
     
    The Vic Firth's are crap.  Ok, they do the job well, really well....for a time.  Then they break, and apparently very easily.  The guy at Guitar Center told me that they have a steady flow of them coming back to the store getting replaced and repaired.  He told me do *not* buy them without the extended warranty because you will use it.  More than once. More than twice.  Funny enough, he also seemed to think Vic was the only one making isolation headphones.  He knows better now.
     
    So..I got the Kat Percussion KTUI26 isolation cans for 70 bucks.  So far, really nice.  They block the incoming sound just like my shooting ear protectors and they are very comfortable, and the sound is really good.  I'm impressed with the build.  They feel like they are going to last.  The reviews are way better than the Vic Firths, a lot more consistent and apparently far more reliable.  I'll have to use them for a bit to see if they last.    
     
    I have a feeling the Direct Sound EX iso's are good too.  Haven't read much bad about them, just more expensive.  
     
     

    Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/08 11:23:19 (permalink)
    Thanks for the tip, VLV. From the user ratings on Amazon, it does appear you've made a smart choice. Several mention using them while operating a lawnmower or leaf blower. Now that's an isolation test!
     
    How are they for just kicking back and listening to music? I wonder if they might be an alternative to IEMs for air travel.


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    #25
    Voda La Void
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/08 18:49:17 (permalink)
    I think they're great for just listening.  I mean, I don't have an audio engineer's ear like you but they have surprisingly nice low end and the rest of the range sounded like my 30 dollar wal-mart Sony headphones - but nice and quiet.
     
    Thing to remember is the cans are a couple times fatter to accommodate the isolation magic so your sartorial coolness may drop a couple points if you wear these in public. 
     
    They are designed to squeeze on yer head, by the way, so I'm not sure if that would irritate you after a while or not.  It didn't for me.  

    Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Drums - Noise Cancelling headphones? 2015/12/09 14:24:09 (permalink)
    My sartorial coolness never survives a 10-hour flight. By the time I stumble off the plane at my destination, I look (and probably smell) like a refugee from the homeless shelter.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #27
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