Helpful ReplyFX Advice for Ugly Voice

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Voda La Void
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2015/10/29 09:43:51 (permalink)

FX Advice for Ugly Voice

Ok, so I've been writing and recording for 30 years or so and my voice has always held me back.  I have ability and range, lots of passion and drama, but I have an ugly voice.  I would have no problem with a vocalist recording on my songs, or as collaborations, but I don't think anyone is interested in re-recording vocal work on about 12 albums worth of music accumulated over the years. "here you go, please re-sing these 130 songs and let me know when you're done, thanks."  
 
That ain't gonna work....
 
So...how about using some effects to color and remove the ugly from my vocal tracks?  Maybe something that becomes signature, for me and my style.  I've experimented a little with Amp Sims and phase effects, but they sound a bit too familiar and cliched and almost sounds like I'm trying to emulate Deftones (although I do think their vocalist uses a certain effect as signature to color his voice too)
 
I'm just not very inventive about FX.  My musical style does lend itself to creative effects but I'm just not real creative with them. Does anyone have any ideas on what might work for hiding the ugly tone in a person's voice?  
 
I included a song here as an example of what I sound like.  Maybe some heavy EQ'ing...?  
 
http://www.vodalavoid.com/music/boundandloved.mp3
 
 

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Guitarhacker
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/29 10:56:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2015/11/04 16:52:29
Melodyne.
 
Don't mess with anything else. I listened to the first 10 seconds of your singing.  Your voice works well for the rock style.... you just need to fix the off pitch singing. 
 
What sounds ugly to you sounds pretty good to other folks.  We all tend to not like to hear our own voice. Me included. However, with Melodyne Editor (ME) or even the less advanced versions, you can fix the pitchy stuff that makes the vocal track sound amateurish.
 
Melodyne is amazing and will correct the vox without adding artifacts and without using FX of any sort.   Just a tad of compression and Reverb and some EQ is all you should ever use on a vocal. Unless you're going for a specific sound.... like the echo of the 50's style music.
 
Not only does it fix pitch, but also timing can be adjusted as well as vibrato and other aspects of the vocal can be tweaked.
 
And it's certainly cheaper than hiring a new singer on 5 songs.  There's a small learning curve but it's a quick learn. The more you learn, the more you can do to fix a vocal track. Always work manually even though it has an "autocorrect" mode. Avoid the temptation to let ME do the work. Once you're up to speed with ME, you can fix a simple vocal track in a song in under an hour.  
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2015/10/29 11:08:40

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#2
sharke
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/29 11:54:27 (permalink)
I agree with Guitarhacker, there is nothing wrong with the character or timbre of your voice, it just needs a little pitch correction. Have you ever thought about taking lessons to work on your pitch? Or just finding some pitch exercises online? Otherwise I would agree with the advice to apply some Melodyne to your vocals. I think your timing is fine, you don't want to get that too mechanical anyway. 
 
It's very common to hate the sound of your own voice. I've been told many times that I have a good singing voice - they always had me sing the lead in school musicals, and when I was in a Barbershop quartet they insisted I sang lead, yet whenever I hear a recording of my voice I just want to curl up and die because of how awful it sounds. It's a natural human reaction to feel weirded out when you hear your own voice from the listeners position, because you're so used to hearing it from inside your own head. 
 
When you said you had an ugly voice, I was expecting to hear something along the lines of Donald Fagan, something which sounds quirky at first but which grows on you (like whiskey). But really, there's nothing ugly about it at all. Correct those pitch inconsistencies and you'll be flying. Although I'm absolutely 100% sure that people have told you that there's nothing ugly about your voice before! I'm guessing that you just thought they were being nice....

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bjornpdx
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/29 15:17:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/11/09 11:14:31
Yeah, your voice sounds just fine to me (it could be a little louder in that particular mix).

I understand what you're saying though about trying to find an FX to enhance your singing. In my case I depend on Melodyne  (a lot!) and Izotope Nectar. Being the stolid Nordic type that I am, I wish there were a "passion and drama" plug-in.  


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Voda La Void
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/29 16:36:08 (permalink)
Hey thanks ya'll.  Sounds like I need to make friends with Melodyne Editor.  I will take your advice.
 
Maybe fixing my pitch issues is the key here.  It's funny, I can always here pitch problems with others, but I don't hear my own, apparently.  
 
I'll try this and if this doesn't work and I still sound repulsive, I will likely be back bellyaching about it looking for an FX solution.
 
Seriously, thanks for taking the time.  
 
 
 
post edited by Voda La Void - 2015/10/29 16:48:07

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bitflipper
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/29 19:17:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2015/11/04 16:52:03
I wouldn't make an ugly face if somebody handed me that vocal and said "make it sound better". There's plenty to work with there. In fact, my primary mission would be to do as little as possible to it.
 
Pitch-correction wouldn't be my first stop. There are only a couple notes that could use a little help up, but for the most part Melodyne would probably do more damage than good unless used very conservatively. It's an aggressive style that neither wants nor needs to be perfectly on pitch. Making it so would only weaken the performance, IMO.
 
Given that overdubbing, double-tracking and re-tracking aren't options, I'd fall back to some basic techniques. A harmonic exciter / parallel distortion plugin could roughen it up a little. A subtle chorus or flanger could add texture, especially if preceded by some kind of harmonic distortion effect. I'd lay on some heavy delay on the "ooh yeah yeah"s, just because that's what Robert Plant would do.
 
If you're looking for specific product suggestions, here are a few things I'd want to have on hand for this type of vocal, if I wanted to take it into outer space:
ValhallaDSP UberMod
ValhallaDSP ValhallaRoom
FabFilter Timeless 2
D16 Redopter (or the newly-released Devastor 2)
Audio Damage RoughRider
 
But I wouldn't put any of them on from start to finish, but rather automate them to come in for emphasis.
 
 


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BASSJOKER
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/31 01:16:50 (permalink)
I dug the tune and agree that you don't need much tweaking on that cut....it fits the bill in my rocking preferences.  
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codamedia
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/31 10:24:28 (permalink)
There is nothing wrong with your voice! You may wish you had a different style of voice, but IMO you should embrace what you do have.
 
If you were tracking at my place - I'd work with you on phrasing and pitch. I wouldn't jump on melodyne so quickly to fix the pitch issues unless it was the last resort... I'd try and capture better pitch to begin with (the way they used to record ).
post edited by codamedia - 2015/10/31 10:34:47

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Voda La Void
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/10/31 19:49:47 (permalink)
Bitflipper - I think highly of your opinion, so I'm going to try some of your suggestions.  I've never done any of that level of FX and engineering - I generally try to capture good performances and put minimal FX on things.  So it will be an interesting trip here to dive in to this. 
 
BASSJOKER - much appreciated.  To be honest, I don't mind my raspy scream-o vocal stuff, and it's right in my sweet spot - but I really don't like my smooth vocal one bit.  I have to close-mic and add heavy compression to find a smooth vocal tone I can stand.  And that wouldn't work on this song at all, nor most of my other material. 
 
Codamedia - I hear you my friend, but the funny thing is I've never really embraced the idea of being a vocalist one bit.  I never wanted to do it.  I'm a musician, not a singer.  I like recording instruments and writing the melodies and putting that all together - but the vocal stuff is a bottle neck for production for me.  I've got probably 20 songs just waiting for me to do vocals.  Everything else is done.  Some of these songs have been done for years.  I wish I could just be an instrumentalist, but vocals just dominate songwriting in my mind and thoughts. 
 
I would absolutely prefer a clean performance with good pitch and transitional notes, something more honest.  But it doesn't hurt my feelings to cheat on vocals since I don't consider myself a vocalist in the first place - see how I just rationalized that?  Ha ha. 
post edited by Voda La Void - 2015/10/31 20:00:10

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Voda La Void
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/04 16:42:04 (permalink)
Ok, so Melodyne is out of my budget and is a non-starter for me at this time.  Maybe in a couple of months...  Really would like to know how it would improve my pitchy problems, but I'm just going to have to wait.
 
ValhallaDSP Uber Mod - wow, way cool and I could really get into this.  At 50 bucks, this seems like a great deal and I can afford it now.  Come on payday....
 
Fabfilter Timeless 2 - another wow, and I could really enjoy this one too.  A bit more at 129 bucks, but hey, it sounds worth it.  I'll wait until I'm acclimated to Valhalla first before I dive into this.  
 
The others were neat too, but those two really stood out to me.  Of course, I'm beholden to the demos I could find online.  
 
These effects are really over my head.  It's going to take a bit of time to *understand* what I'm doing and what's going on.  But all of it sounds very promising.  
 
Thanks ya'll!  
 
 
 
 

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codamedia
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/04 17:30:37 (permalink)
Voda La Void
Ok, so Melodyne is out of my budget and is a non-starter for me at this time.  Maybe in a couple of months...  Really would like to know how it would improve my pitchy problems, but I'm just going to have to wait.

I strongly recommend the old school approach....
Re-record it until you you get it right!
 
It worked for 70+ years.... then autotune and melodyne came around giving everyone the impression they could "fix it in the mix"! It's always better to get it right to begin with.

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

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Voda La Void
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/04 23:03:20 (permalink)
codamedia
Voda La Void
Ok, so Melodyne is out of my budget and is a non-starter for me at this time.  Maybe in a couple of months...  Really would like to know how it would improve my pitchy problems, but I'm just going to have to wait.

I strongly recommend the old school approach....
Re-record it until you you get it right!
 
It worked for 70+ years.... then autotune and melodyne came around giving everyone the impression they could "fix it in the mix"! It's always better to get it right to begin with.




That *is* as right as it gets with me.  Remember, I'm not hearing the pitch problems - you are, and others.  That's as good as I can sing it.  That was take after take after take after take...then on to the next line...rinse and repeat. Overwhelmingly self conscious, looking out the window every two minutes wondering if the neighbors are listening...
 
I'm just not a singer and I don't enjoy doing it.  Maybe if I'd started when I was 13 like I did drums and guitar then I would be.  I play instruments and write arrangements and dream up melodies.  That's what I do.  I only sing because no one else is going to come over here and do it.  
 
I'm 44 years old, I'm a fecund writer and I have songs stacking up in the hopper...I don't have years to take a time out and spend becoming a singer.  I've lost enough time already trying to do what you hear right now.  
 
I need to move on.  I'm floundering on old material and it's costing me new ideas and fresh thoughts.  I'm not on the radio.  I don't sell CD's to anybody.  I'm not on iTunes.  I'm not heard by anybody outside of Cakewalk and couple friends on Facebook.  Vocal performance purity is not my priority - instrument performance purity, arrangement and melodic creativity is.  
 
Sorry to disappoint you.  I do respect your opinion, I just can't live up to it.   
 
 

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Larry Jones
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/05 01:22:11 (permalink)
Have you tried using the speedcomping feature in Sonar? I'm not much of a singer myself, but I've found that if I sing six or eight takes all the way through, consecutively, I learn how to sing the song as I'm going, using ideas that happen in take three, for example, to make take four better, and so on. Doing it this way -- and not taking vocal lessons -- I find I can usually piece together a pretty good composite track which requires very little or no Melodyne enhancement. Sometimes I still have to punch in a phrase or two, but not always. I think that knowing I am going to sing a bunch of takes all the way through and back-to-back sort of takes the pressure off and lets me be more natural, because in this scenario mistakes are OK -- I'm sure there will always be at least one acceptable take of every phrase, so I'm free to play around, which can lead to a better performance. You seem to have the raw material. If you haven't tried this technique, I suggest you give it a shot.

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jb101
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/09 10:25:02 (permalink)
Craig Anderton did a video showing how he treats his vocal, and it was impressive.  Can't remember what the video was, but I will have a look and post back, when I get a chance.
 
I am not saying that Craig can't sing, he can, but the results/improvement were remakable.

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charlyg
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/09 11:08:31 (permalink)
Not because I really need to, but because I'm a noob, I depend on Izotope Nectar 2 for vocal tracks. The preset gets me in the ball park, and i tweak and turn on/off the various modules. Then, when John(singer/songwriter/guitarist) and I are happy, we save it as John's "whatever" preset. I use one for the ballady type things and one for rock. It's now a done deal for him, and I need to see if my pitch problems can be fixed. I can match tones no problem, but to find the note whilst just hearing a chord is, well.......like rocket science.
 
post edited by charlyg - 2015/11/09 11:19:24

 
 
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/09 11:21:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/11/09 11:38:13
Voda La Void
Ok, so Melodyne is out of my budget and is a non-starter for me at this time.  Maybe in a couple of months...  Really would like to know how it would improve my pitchy problems, but I'm just going to have to wait.
 
ValhallaDSP Uber Mod - wow, way cool and I could really get into this.  At 50 bucks, this seems like a great deal and I can afford it now.  Come on payday....
 
Fabfilter Timeless 2 - another wow, and I could really enjoy this one too.  A bit more at 129 bucks, but hey, it sounds worth it.  I'll wait until I'm acclimated to Valhalla first before I dive into this.  
 
The others were neat too, but those two really stood out to me.  Of course, I'm beholden to the demos I could find online.  
 
These effects are really over my head.  It's going to take a bit of time to *understand* what I'm doing and what's going on.  But all of it sounds very promising.  
 
Thanks ya'll!  
 
 
 
 




Melodyne Essential comes with Sonar Professional and Platinum. It was also included with Sonar X* Producer. It's the mono version. Melodyne is pretty intuitive and transparent once you get to playing around with it. Celemony has a lot of great Melodyne tutorial videos on youtube.
 
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orangesporanges
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/11/25 02:13:45 (permalink)
Try melodyne.Can't hurt. I recently did a vocal track in an uncomfortable key, and I found that adding a little of the tube emulation in pro channel really smoothed it out without actually adding real distortion.  Judicious use of these two worked great.I went one further and added some T-rax white opto compressor (the 2A one) helped strengthen it.

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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/01 12:42:13 (permalink)
Voda La Void
......
 
I need to move on.  I'm floundering on old material and it's costing me new ideas and fresh thoughts.  I'm not on the radio.  I don't sell CD's to anybody.  I'm not on iTunes.  I'm not heard by anybody outside of Cakewalk and couple friends on Facebook.  Vocal performance purity is not my priority - instrument performance purity, arrangement and melodic creativity is.  
 
Sorry to disappoint you.  I do respect your opinion, I just can't live up to it.   
 


Tim,
Have you considered finding an online collaborator? Someone who sings your style of music? There are sites all over the net for musicians who want to hook up with other musicians. Perhaps you could find someone who needs what you do well and you could help each other out. Might be a perfect solution and fun at the same time!

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dcumpian
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/01 13:23:14 (permalink)
My advice: Embrace your voice. Write the melodies to your voice's strengths.
 
Tom Petty, Bob Dylan, Tiny Tim (lol) and many more can't all be wrong...
 
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Voda La Void
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/08 09:09:44 (permalink)
Lots of advice here at Cakewalk.  And the effects advice on here is great.  I just haven't the money to play with any of them yet.  But I will, after Christmas.  
 
I have gone through the typical Cakewalk Home Studio effects and played with the EQ'ing and all that to find a unique FX signature and I just keep gravitating to distortion "amp sims".  The distortion or overdrive sound really hides the "ugly" in my voice, quite nicely and also buries those pitchy transients that bite my ass so much.  
 
But distortion and overdrive is not unique.  It's perty darn popular.  I wish I could get the same effect...out of a different effect....yeah....something like that.  I need an effect combination that achieves the same result....but isn't simply distorto-magic.  
 
 

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bitflipper
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/08 12:31:02 (permalink)
Try some free amp sims. There are gobs of them available. Run them in parallel and experiment with compression and EQ before and after the sim. One trick is to boost the midrange from ~1 kHz to ~4 KHz, distort, and then cut the same frequencies by the same amount. Crush the sh*t out of it and you can get a kind of Green Day type crunch.


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Philip
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/21 23:59:45 (permalink)
WHAT!  
 
This rock star's vox samples are quite superb, imho.  I wouldn't hurt these nor refer to the talent as un-beautiful.  This vox is to die for and to bless God for.  (Yes, I've sung with many here and know you are rock solid, to my ears.  I don't think I myself or any of us sings 'Robert Plant' better than you ... TBH, all of us rockers should envy your excellent groaning.)
 
Simple vox OVERDUBS (by you, the original vocalist, else another passionate backing vox (or 2) ... increased vocal compression, vocal plate verbs, and vocal Haas delays might thicken this snappy, textural, and awesome 'Robert-Plant-like groaning' perfectly ... to be what it is, solid and true.
 
I don't think Robert Plant would benefit from too much melodyne, since he's so spaced-out and passionate about love and heartbreak calamities of his life anyway.  Your groaning needs some thickening is all ... and that snappy raw groaning takes precedence over melodic polish ... in this song at least.
 
But jmo/imho.

Philip  
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#22
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Re: FX Advice for Ugly Voice 2015/12/22 07:27:38 (permalink)
Your voice is fine, in fact I'd say very good.  Perhaps try a little less hard (AKA relax a bit more).

Sing at an angle up into the mic to help open & relax the throat and its 'singing bits'*.  Make sure your throat is warm (some hot honey and lemon perhaps) and steer clear of phlegm/mucus producing foods for a couple days before recording (i.e. dairy and wheat products).

Listening to yourself is a bit like seeing yourself in a photo; you finally see** how others see you, not how you usually see yourself, so it's always a bit weird; your visual mirror image has its nose pulled out through the back of your head***, and your own voice is highly modified by your bony sound-box (skull).
 
I thought originally this thread was for advice on how to treat a vocal part to make it ugly (e.g. lo-fi, bit-reduction type stuff) :-)

* - a medical term
** - see meaning hear, or see, or both
*** - mirrors do NOT reverse left and right
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