Helpful ReplyBest Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10

Author
BrooklynGtrMn
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Joined: 2015/02/20 02:15:36
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
  • Status: offline
2015/11/07 00:52:57 (permalink)

Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10

I'm using Sonar Platinum on a Windows 10 PC through an M-Audio ProFire 610 soundcard at the moment. Unfortunately M-Audio is no longer updating the drivers for this product and although it seems to be working fine I wanted to reach out and see if I could get recommendations for a new soundcard. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
#1
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/07 15:51:08 (permalink)
Hi. First and foremost, a budget, need for ins and outs and how you wish to connect it is necessary to be able to give you valid suggestions.
And welcome to the forum.
post edited by Zargg71 - 2015/11/07 16:01:51

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#2
BrooklynGtrMn
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Joined: 2015/02/20 02:15:36
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/07 16:06:42 (permalink)
Thanks for the replay. My current card has a firewire connection but I can go USB if that's a better option. This is a home studio so I only really do one instrument at a time so two ins and outs would be fine (no live drums or anything like that). As far as budget I want my recording to sound as professional as possible but yes I'm on a budget of sorts. I would love to get something that's under $500 if possible. I hope this helps. Just trying to narrow down my choices and I'll take it from there.
#3
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/07 16:53:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2015/11/07 17:25:15
The RME Babyface is an excellent choice and the drivers are rock solid - it's over your budget but o thought that maybe since they have released a new version (Babyface Pro) you might get a deal on one of the old ones.

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#4
Jesse G
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4282
  • Joined: 2004/04/14 01:43:43
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/08 22:43:01 (permalink)
I recommend the Roland Octa-Capture, you will enjoy this audio interface.
 
Check it out for yourself  View the Octa-Capture

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
==============================
Cakewalk and I are going places together!

Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
#5
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/09 01:20:25 (permalink)
TASCAM UH-7000.  USB, premium sound that beats most of the boxes out there, esp. the preamps.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#6
twaddle
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1967
  • Joined: 2004/07/28 15:46:48
  • Location: Bristol UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/09 05:31:44 (permalink)
BrooklynGtrMn
I'm using Sonar Platinum on a Windows 10 PC through an M-Audio ProFire 610 soundcard at the moment. Unfortunately M-Audio is no longer updating the drivers for this product and although it seems to be working fine I wanted to reach out and see if I could get recommendations for a new soundcard. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!




 
I don't get it? You say it seems to be working fine so why get a new one?
 
If it starts to be the cause of issues then it's time to change, otherwise why waste your money?
Unless you have money to throw away and are wanting to treat yourself to an early Xmas present I would advise spending the money on something you have a need for.
 
Steve

soundcloud  SoundClick  Myspace
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, 
Intel i7 930, 3.40Ghz, 
12GB Corsair DDR3 
1TB WD  SATA 6Gb X 2 
Emu- 0404 PCIe 
Sonar X1d Expanded
BFD3 + BFD2 + BFD Eco
Dual boot windows 7, 32 & 64bit
#7
BrooklynGtrMn
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Joined: 2015/02/20 02:15:36
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/10 12:11:12 (permalink)
I always thought that the best time to ask for advice is when you don't need it. Truth is, when a company stops supporting their hardware and no longer updates the drivers for it the writing is on the wall. I would rather start researching my options now while I have time then make a $500 impulse purchase because I'm trying to make my deadline on a recording project. Besides, it's just fun to hear what other people are using in their recording setup. 
 
Thank you all for the advice, I'm going to check every one of your recommendations out. Also, thanks for speaking your mind and offering your honest opinions of my post, that's what forums are about. When it comes to music and recording I feel we never stop learning!
#8
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2774
  • Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
  • Location: Flagstaff, AZ
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/10 18:08:16 (permalink)
Just because your budget is $500, doesn't mean you need to spend that much.
 
I am in a similar situation as you, and started with a PreSonus AudioBox 44VSL. It's a good piece of kit, but the driver was a bit unstable on my Win7 machine and failed completely under Win10. That old driver is still the current driver, and even has a Win10 compatibility statement. Bah.
 
And there was the occasional time when I wished for just ONE more input.
 
So, I picked up a Tascam US-16x08 for $200 on a Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the Day. Even at its normal street price of $300, it's money well spent. v1.04 of the driver fixed an issue in Reaper and has been rock-solid for me. So good, in fact, that I've made it my default Windows Playback and Recording sources. My old Bose PC speakers are in a closet.
 
It may seem like a lot of I/O, but the provides some real flexibility. For example, I have a condenser mic for vocals plugged into IN1 and a dynamic instrument mic plugged into IN5. The US-16x08 has separate phantom power enable switches for IN1-4 and IN5-8, so I have it enable for IN1 and disable for IN5.
 
I've also just picked up 4 more condenser mics that I plan to use to record a 13-member women's a cappella group at the local university. I've got the inputs for that unplanned session. No scrambling required.
 
Tascam now develop their drivers in-house. That was a big selling point for me, since the US-16x08 is a new device. Some of their older legacy interfaces with 3rd party drivers my be another issue.
 
Good luck!
 
http://tascam.com/product/us-16x08/overview/
 
EDIT: I should add that I'm running at the minimum ASIO sample size (64), and have yet to experience a glitch.
post edited by TheMaartian - 2015/11/10 18:22:50

Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08
Studio One 4 Pro NotionMelodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7
PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro
NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
#9
siordanescu
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 194
  • Joined: 2010/08/02 13:34:14
  • Location: Timisoara/Romania
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/11 17:05:33 (permalink)
PRO FIRE 610 works perfectly with windows 10. I have a m-audio projectmix and the drivers from windows 7 sp1 (version 6.0.4, x64) are rock solid in windows 10. And i mean hard working.... score music for theatre productions, musicals, etc...

HP EliteBook 8460p Intel core i7-2620M, 2,7 ghz, 8G RAM, Win 10 x64, CAKEWALK by BANDLAB, SONAR PLATINUM, M-AUDIO PROJECTMIX, ALESIS IO 26, TASCAM US 16x08, TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24 D, ROLAND V SYNTH, ROLAND XP 50, M AUDIO PROKEYS 88.
 
#10
siordanescu
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 194
  • Joined: 2010/08/02 13:34:14
  • Location: Timisoara/Romania
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/11 17:09:05 (permalink)

HP EliteBook 8460p Intel core i7-2620M, 2,7 ghz, 8G RAM, Win 10 x64, CAKEWALK by BANDLAB, SONAR PLATINUM, M-AUDIO PROJECTMIX, ALESIS IO 26, TASCAM US 16x08, TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24 D, ROLAND V SYNTH, ROLAND XP 50, M AUDIO PROKEYS 88.
 
#11
auto_da_fe
Max Output Level: -56.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1866
  • Joined: 2004/08/04 21:32:18
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/25 13:33:10 (permalink)
I have the Octa Cpature.
 
Rock Solid through all Sonar and Window updates.
 
Good sounding Pre's too.
 
Jeff

HP DV6T - 2670QM, 8 GB RAM,
Sonar Platypus,  Octa Capture, BFD2 & Jamstix3, Komplete 10 and Komplete Kontrol
Win 10 64 
SLS PS8R Monitors and KRK Ergo
https://soundcloud.com/airportface
#12
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/25 14:51:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jonboper 2015/12/05 09:28:43
You can save about $300 from your budget and use it for some other software/hardware in getting this:
 

 
 
Focusrite has great drivers/support for Win 10 and the interface is excellent.

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#13
AllanH
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 406
  • Joined: 2015/07/01 09:09:04
  • Location: Central Coast California, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/26 13:47:47 (permalink)
I'm not sure of "best" but this retail soundcard has been incredibly good with Sonar: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy PCIe RX 7.1 Sound Card
 
For $40 at Amazon, excellent ASIO drivers, 96k, Win10 support, optical out (48k), it's hard to beat.
 
The only complaint I have is that I also wanted to run the output of my Kurzweil into the sound card to unify my setup. That has a background buzz and I've not been able to make it work.
post edited by AllanH - 2015/11/26 14:00:41

Sonar Platinum, EWHO/D, Spitfire, Miroslav, Pianoteq, ....,  Kurzweil.
#14
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4604
  • Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/28 18:47:56 (permalink)
Hey Everybody,
 
I read a lot of posts on this thread and feel the need to add a post in hopes for some feedback according to my specific desires in a mobile interface and instead of creating another thread, this thread seems to fit pretty well.
 
I have a great studio setup at my location but I am vigorously researching for a mobile solution.
My Roland Quad capture failed and when I sent it in, they said it is not worth fixing for the cost and offered a new one for $163. I am looking elsewhere at this point since that is the case before I go buying a new quadcapture with that discounted price because there is a lot of new stuff and even some really good older stuff out.
 
I am going to get a really good laptop setup but for now I have a get by i5 laptop, not too fast but with an SSD drive, USB 3.0 available for an interface or second drive if needed and 8 gigs of ram.
 
Please keep in mind that: 
 
1. Black Friday weekend/Cyber Monday weekend after Thanksgiving and I want to be able to pick it up at the store, not wait for shipping, in order to take advantage of this down time and rock out! lol
2. I need USB 2.0 (or 3.) connection without the need for external power (truly mobile, at any location setup)
3. I would really like to have dsp effects so I can add compression  the recorded signal. I know a lot of people say to record without any effects so it is non-destructive in the box but I have to give it up to the old school because using some compression on the way in it seems like I get a signal that comes out better overall int he mix than a clean signal that I try to compress and control more aggressively as needed int he mix. I think it has to do with some magic that happens with the way the compression works at the time of the performance and how it effects the way they perform. Not sure but anyway, I could sacrafice this if needed but it would sure be nice to have. MOTU and RME definitely offer this. It looks like the Presonus VSL series might offer ti but hard to tell if it is only post or can be recorded in.
4. I am willing to pay a good chunk of money but would love to save it for other things if there is a lower cost option that will do the job with very decent quality so I know I can ( I am very good inside the box) get the sound to a place in which it is truly ready to compete professionally and be released. This is mainly the preamps. They have to be good. Transparent is fine, actually my preference since I can do a lot to the sound in the box. I don't want fake color, low quality converters and preamps that introduce sub quality noise or sound. Tube saturation or coloring? No thank you. The plugins we have today can really do so much today in combination or otherwise that I would rather not color or saturate, distort etc. on the way in. Compression? That I would like to have the ability to record, pretty much solely.
5. I HAVE TO HAVE a good low round trip latency capable unit that should be able to go down to 32ms buffers or at least a really low number at 64ms (as long as the computer can hang of course)
 
So... @Mesh
I have been trying to find a round trip latency report on the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which I imagine uses the same driver coding as the Scarlett 2i4 and Focusrite Scarlett Solo. (just assuming but that is not necessarily so - i.e. I heard that at least a while ago, the Roland Duo-Capture did not have the low latency performance that the Octa-Capture and the rest of the higher priced Roland Capture series had and also heard the preamp may not be as good, maybe just rumors... not sure)
 
I just found out the Presonus VSL software support for the Prersonus 22VSL and 44VSL is being discontinued. I do have a link to back up where I read this (Sweetwater) 
This was very disappointing because I read about how the Presonus VSL series driver was written to be able to bypass the buffer limit that USB 2.0 ports automatically have, thus being able to get as low latency as your computer can handle without the USB port or the interface being hardly a bottleneck at all. - Then I read the VSL software discontinuation - does not sound like a good investment for the future now.
 
So - with this collection of information and based on the unit being used with a very powerful new generation (Skylake) laptop, SSD drives (multiple for OS/Programs, Samples/Loops and another for Project files/recording onto), what is a good mid range or surprisingly reasonable price interface that has good RTL (low latency for playing softsynths), good pres, plugs in via SUB or USB 3.0 at least without outside power and hopefully able to record compression when recording into the unit via the preamps?
 
Sorry if the long post. I just wanted to really express my situation and what I am looking for after researching all night and half the day today, reading and Googling like crazy already.
 
I almost grabbed a MOTU unit as multiple units by them do everything I want except... the units I liked seem to need external power when using USB.
 
P.S. - I love and have been very successful with the Presnous preamp and compressor sound of the Presonus Eureka, thus my interest int he Presonus units or something that provides that clean, round, warm, pleasant but transparent sound, not colored, thin or cheap or saturated.
 
Thank You!
 
Lance
 
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2015/11/28 19:01:56

Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard   
i7 3770k CPU
32 gigs RAM
Presonus AudioBox iTwo
Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit
Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops
Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51
Presonus Eureka
Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
#15
thierry.venin@gmail.com
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 19
  • Joined: 2015/01/14 04:15:02
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/29 02:22:58 (permalink)
SPL Crimson is a jewel.
#16
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4604
  • Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/29 21:44:50 (permalink)
Wow very nice! Hadn't seen that! For mobile purposes I need something that does not need an external power supply though but I actually might consider that from my main studio!

Thank you!
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2015/11/30 00:33:25

Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard   
i7 3770k CPU
32 gigs RAM
Presonus AudioBox iTwo
Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit
Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops
Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51
Presonus Eureka
Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
#17
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4604
  • Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/11/30 00:22:00 (permalink)
So I bit the bullet and got the new Presonus iTWO interface. I'll report results. I love the sound of Presonus mic pre's so I'll try it and see if it performs well to play soft syntheticlounge@yahoo.com via my (also bit this bullet) Akai mini keyboard and when recording while monitoring plugins that are in the DAW.

Cheers!

Lance

Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard   
i7 3770k CPU
32 gigs RAM
Presonus AudioBox iTwo
Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit
Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops
Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51
Presonus Eureka
Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
#18
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/12/01 10:21:05 (permalink)
Hi Lance, sorry for the delayed reply....I just saw the rest of the posts.
 
The RTL on my 2i4 in my current PC build (IIRC) was around 10 seconds......it's been awhile since I checked as I only checked it when I got the 2i4 about 2 years ago.
Although this might a bit late (since You've already got an interface), this list does include the 2i4 as well as others that have good RTL. http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#database>  
 
Best of luck with the Presonus.

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#19
aidanodr
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 454
  • Joined: 2013/10/12 12:12:58
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/12/02 11:13:16 (permalink)
Lanceindastudio
So I bit the bullet and got the new Presonus iTWO interface. I'll report results. I love the sound of Presonus mic pre's so I'll try it and see if it performs well to play soft syntheticlounge@yahoo.com via my (also bit this bullet) Akai mini keyboard and when recording while monitoring plugins that are in the DAW.

Cheers!

Lance



So Lance - How are is your new Presonus iTWO interface going?
 
#20
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10037
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL,UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/12/02 11:38:39 (permalink)
oh, i thought you were looking for a sound card,
not an interface......

Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
--
Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
 
#21
jonboper
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 323
  • Joined: 2006/01/18 09:29:51
  • Location: Appleton, WI
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/12/05 09:18:33 (permalink)
+1 Focusrite...save $ and be totally happy.

http://smaltmine.bandcamp.com/
https://booleanoperators.bandcamp.com/
 
All music was recorded and all in Sonar.
 
 
#22
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Best Soundcard(s) for Sonar and Windows 10 2015/12/06 16:50:00 (permalink)
batsbrew
oh, i thought you were looking for a sound card,
not an interface......




 
Ha Ha,, my first reaction too!  So the only correct reply was the dude with the SoundBlaster,,( which reminds me? What ever happened to CJ?) 
 
Just FYI folks..
DSP compression is pointless because it happens after your A/D.. think about this for a minute.. About the only point in the input signal chain that can give you some nasty sounds are your pre amps, then the A/D.. putting a compressor after these in the chain is no better than putting it on your DAW track. It's not going to prevent clipping. 
I would think it's intended use is for monitoring control. 
 
The lower end Focusrite interface like my 6i6 are not stellar performers with RTL. They are average at best. But if your like me and never enguage input echo then it's not an issue. 
I can get mine as low as 7ms which is almost OK. But the system will be on edge so I leave it at 12ms. 
 
And to the Sound Blaster dude. If you want to see how good your "sound card" is do a loop back test and observe how far out of sync your overdubs are. 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...r-offset-m3178396.aspx
 
USB buss power is known to sometimes create noise issues on a lot of systems. Always make sure an interface at least has a power supply as an option. 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/12/06 17:10:53

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#23
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1