Using NI Maschine and SOnar together or....

For the more experienced users, can Sonar do what NI's Maschine does? Or has anyone used them together?
My daughter just received Maschine and it looked and worked really nice and fast. So I wondered if I should purchase it or just use X3 along with my akai 49 key controller

Thanks

Compared to keyboard controllers, playing drums on Maschine's pads is a real treat, much easier, and quite fun (very responsive). You can also play/record (via the pads) everything that's included in Komplete.  

From what I understand you can do quite a bit of pattern sequencing in Maschine, which does create some overlap with a DAW like SONAR. I wonder if there's easy ways to transfer that work into SONAR at some point in the process, so that Maschine can still exist as something more than just a pad controller (which it also obviously is). 
 

I use Maschine as a MIDI controller in Sonar - however the pads are not as responsive when running Sonar as opposed to running stand-alone - any ideas why this might be and how to resolve please?

I've never used Maschine but I use Geist a lot and I should imagine that some aspects of it are similar, e.g. getting used to the workflow of moving back and forward between two timelines. I use the Song Mode in Geist to arrange patterns, but I also have MIDI and audio tracks in Sonar because I can't do everything in Geist, and sometimes it's a little confusing because I basically have my song arrangement split into two places. And this creates problems when, for example, I want to insert some measures in the Sonar timeline. Immediately, my Geist timeline is out of sync because the Geist does not update in reaction to me inserting measures in Sonar. So I have to take all of my Geist patterns and shift them the appropriate number of measures in the Geist timeline. I've never worked with Maschine but I'm sure there are similar annoyances that you have to get used to. 
 
But you develop a workflow of sorts, which for me involves using Geist to arrange sequences and then bouncing them to audio in Sonar. Sometimes I don't really try and arrange my song in Geist, I just use Geist as a tool to experiment with and create sequences which I eventually bring into Sonar. 
 
But as others will tell you, the actually hardware of Maschine is very good quality and it's a pleasure to bang on those pads. I've only done so in a store, but it did make me want to buy one. 

To OP

Get your daughter to read the getting started guide and then the manual with it it. Get her to master it. Aftet that you/she will be able to see how Sonar can benefit here.

@Keyloid if you start your own thread discussion rather than piggy back, happy to respond. As you can see everybody here is addressing the OP (his thread) and it gets confusing otherwise.

ok ...someone PLEASE set me straight on this one ....I am using Sonar X1, and NI Maschine (First version) I am also using a focusrite saffire 01 audio interface. we all know that the Maschine has no audio outs, everything runs via a fire wire cable directly to my computer ....I can load the Maschine as a VST and I have also loaded it as an ACT controller.....when i insert softsynth, VST32 i see Maschine, I hit it and it loads perfectly ...I have complete control of the Maschine on screen as a track in sonar x1...I can hit the pads, I can see the midi signals perfectly ...excelenyt response...I mean everything is lightning fast and crystal clear.....BUT......(It can never be easy) 1....Sonar does not recognize the NI Maschine as an audio device, so how in the hell do I record its output?....2 when I arm the track for record i get INSTANT heavy latency ...I can literally hit a pad on the machine while the track is armed for record and the sound that its supposed to play (Say a snare drum) doesnt actually sound for (Im not joking 15-12 seconds after striking the pad) ....I unarm the track and its back to perfect again...so whats up with that?......I want to use my Machine as a MIDI drum machine, as if it is just another instrument in my rack that I can call up from my master keyboard ....why in the heck does Native Instruments have to make things so freaking complicated....why cant their stuff just play nice with everything else .....I was planning on buying the whole Komplete system, but if this Machine is any indication as to how many rings of fire i will have to jump through to get it to work , I aint gonna touch it with a 10 foot pole ....I am a sonar/IBM guy and no, im not going to buy a 5000 dollar mac just to run it ..(Plus all the other software) I have way too much invested in my current system...I need this Maschine to work....any suggestions?
 
another odd thing ...when I play the VST through sonar , I can see the audio coming out of the focusrite main outs, but for some reason the audio signals are invisible to Sonar ..why is this?...I cant record the Machine on an audio track in sonar ...whats up with that ?
 
I have googled the creap out of this subject, I have scoured Youtube....nothing usefull.....some talk about it, but nobody ever goes into any real detail 

@steve pabst -
 
 
I'm just getting ready to take the Maschine plunge myself, but I'll offer what I can.
 
Maschine is not an audio interface, so it's not going to show up as an audio device in Sonar.
It's a MIDI controller that works over USB.
 
Any Maschine audio is going to have to come out of & into the Maschine software VSTi.
It sounds like you might have a MIDI and/or audio routing issue ~
 
Make sure your Saffire is routed correctly for DAW use with the MixControl app.
Try disabling the Maschine controller as an ACT control surface, and use it strictly as a dedicated controller for the Maschine software, and see if that makes a difference with the latency.
 
You'll probably need to spend some time with the Maschine manual ~
Maschine has so many features it can be a bit intimidating!
 
Keep in mind that Sonar has changed considerably since X1, and the Maschine software is up to version 2.4;
so, the versions of software you're running might not be as cooperative as the current versions.
 
Also, FWIW, Groove 3 has their videos on special through midnight tonight - 
and they do have Maschine tutorials (heading to their site shortly...)
 

I use Maschine 2.4 as a vst in Sonar. Sonar is the midi sequencer, Maschine is acting as a multitimbral synth. I'm able to use the Maschine drum pad or my midi keyboard to trigger drums and/or synths in Maschine and record the midi in Sonar.

twisted6s
I use Maschine 2.4 as a vst in Sonar. Sonar is the midi sequencer, Maschine is acting as a multitimbral synth. I'm able to use the Maschine drum pad or my midi keyboard to trigger drums and/or synths in Maschine and record the midi in Sonar.

Can you tell me how you've set this up? I can't seem to get my Maschine set up. That way at all. I've poured over the manual, googled it and I'm just figuring it out. The pads aren't sending MIDI. I get no indication that Sonar is receiving MIDI notes from the pads.

Hopefully, you or someone else here can guide me.

Thanks.

Thanks for posting these Sonar / Maschine tips guys - 
I just took the Maschine plunge myself over the holidays, so this is going to be VERY helpful!! 

I have no problems with playback so not sure what do you mean by that. Of course the method doesn't utilize the sound browsing features in Maschine but still lets me use note repeat, scales etc and is really dead simple to setup. I like to keep all the MIDI and VSTs inside Sonar so that doesn't bother me so much. I'll need to look into your method in case I could improve my way of using Maschine with Sonar.

Sanderxpander
If you want to use Maschine 2 with the controller to browse sounds etc but record linearly in Sonar, there are a few things you need to do.

First, just because it makes things a bit more intuitive, add an instance of Maschine to your project using a separate audio and midi track, so NOT the "simple instrument track". So choose midi source and first synth audio output.

Now use your controller or the plugin window to browse and load a kit, just so it's easy to see/hear if it's working.

Now, on the top half of the plugin window, it shows "new project" and under that the name of your kit, right click the kit name and choose Group Midi Batch Setup/Sounds to Midi Notes.

Now, under there, make sure "group" is selected and select the dial icon that will let you setup input and output modes. Under "input", set midi as "active" and channel to 1 (or to whatever channel you want to use for this group, you can set other channels for other groups). Make sure "thru" is off. Now, if you have a keyboard hooked up, you can already use the keyboard to trigger Maschine sounds and record in Sonar that way. But we want to use the Maschine controller so bear with me.

First, still in the group midi input parameters, set the root note to C3.

Now select all your pads (click the first one in the plugin, scroll down and shift-click the last one) and switch to the "sound" parameters, again choosing the dial to setup input and output parameters. In the input section, midi source should be "default", channel 1 and Thru off. In the output section, destination should be Host and channel 1.

On your Sonar midi track, make sure it is set to output to Maschine and channel 1 (you may need to change the view from custom to all to specify channels). In the input section you can choose either Maschine or all/omni if you want to also use a keyboard or external controller. Now you can arm the midi track and record the way you're used to in Sonar, utilizing the Maschine controller and e.g. its Note Repeat function.

This did the trick for me, thanks! I actually think I had it right last night. But, the indicator meter on the MIDI track doesn't light up. So, unless you're actually recording, you don't know if Sonar is receiving MIDI from the Maschine or not. I never tried to record anything last night because the MIDI signals weren't showing up on the meter. Doh! I should have tried to record something. It never occurred to me that the notes could have been transmitting but just not registering on the MIDI track's meter in Sonar.
 
Why do you guys think NI made this simple function so cumbersome on Maschine? This is basic stuff here. Or, am I missing something?