Helpful ReplyAD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right?

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SimpleM
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:00:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Sjanin 2015/11/30 22:15:53
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pentimentosound
No biggie for me, Bob. I'll certainly, happily spend my refund or accept the "consolation offer". When I started this thread, I hoped it was true, but assumed it was a mistake. I didn't expect the thread to take off in the various directions that occurred......
While we waited for Cakewalk to respond, imaginations flared/soared/dove etc....... too much coffee or perhaps turkey! LOL
Michael



About the same time you started this thread, I had posted the question with some screen shots in the "Gobble" sale thread just looking for clarity as if it looked like it were false due to a mistake, I was going to buy Waves Gold for $169.  I took the chance on this as I think I need variety in drum kits more than I need plugs.  (I don't find Cakes plugs all that inferior to Waves)

Call me less of a man if you wish, but I have to be wise with how I spend money as there is an inversely proportional balance between studio and marital bliss.  Letting the bride know I just dropped $40 on software is much easier than 169, but had I received earlier confirmation that this was not going to happen, I would have stuck the neck out on the Waves stuff as it will likely be a year before they drop the price for it this low again.

You have to choose your battles wisely as this principal is part of a happy union going on 29 years.



SimpleM
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:04:48 (permalink)
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This just in, the response from Cakewalk I was told I was going to get between 2-3pm hit my email at 5:45...  (just an observation on the convoluted nature of the issue, not an indictment of CW's service)



post edited by SimpleM - 2015/12/04 17:19:24
pentimentosound
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:10:27 (permalink)
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Certainly no less of a man, Rob. I salute your longevity. I'm just celebrating living 10 years with my mate(married almost 8). Fortunately, for me she has her own studio/passions and shops like I do, so we have nothing to bother with in that regard. We are well matched and when I mention a refund, I'm sure she'll think of something! LOL
 
Thank you for sharing that from Kelly. Now we can all move on, however we choose.
Michael
post edited by pentimentosound - 2015/11/30 20:27:38
kitekrazy1
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:25:54 (permalink)
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Ableton made a big mistake in offering Live 8 Suite to Live 9 Suite for $150.  They withdrew but got a lot of flack for those who took advantage of the preorder. So what they did was those involved sent a support ticket and they got a code for the discount for that price. 

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:33:41 (permalink)
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i remember that kitekrazy. they eventually even caved in to customers who said that had it in their cart but hadn't bought it :) people will fight like cornered beasts if they think they might be getting away with something. 

 
SimpleM
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:49:27 (permalink)
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pentimentosound
Certainly no less of a man, Rob. I salute your longevity. I'm just celebrating living 10 years with my mate(married almost 8). Fortunately, for me she has her own studio/passions and shops like I do, so we have nothing to bother with in that regard. We are well matched and when I mention a refund, I'm sure she'll think of something! LOL
 



Having kids and grand kids makes this time of year more sensitive.  If I buy studio stuff on BF, she sees it as taking funds from them for Xmas...

Otherwise, when I make money in the studio, I can dump it back in as I please or use it for the sports car.

A well set-up hard driven car and sticky rubber makes for some expensive fun.
BobF
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 20:59:03 (permalink)
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SimpleM
BobF
I'm shocked by some of these posts.  This thread started because it seemed too good to be true.  Is the mistakenly presented deal that important to some of you?
 
"Wow" is all I can think of to say.  Is it really THAT important to get whatever you can get? 
 
Andrew:  Regardless of the decision you guys make, please refund my transaction.  I don't want to be associated with this.


Hey, while you are up there on your high horse, do you mind checking the horizon for any other lowlifes that might have an opinion different than yours.  I'd hate for them to sully the name of all the perfect Sonar users.

No one, not one person has been adamant about demanding Cake honor the deal, all have been conciliatory to the possible eventuality of simply a refund.

That they give opinions or past-case scenarios or opined hopes they get what the offer stated does not make them bad persons. 

Your comment of disassociation called out every forum poster that did not just say they would prefer a refund.

Well played sir, well played.

 
Actually, my post called out "some of these posts" ... A bit over the top?  Perhaps.  It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. 
 
If you're still reading ...
 
I don't view Cakewalk as just some retail outlet.  They have been my partner for a very long time.  I don't always agree with them, and when I don't I say so, but the net net of it all is that I prefer them to be successful so they can continue on with their part of our relationship.  Otherwise all of my Cake stuff withers and becomes as useless as the effort I have expended getting to know their software.
 
If this had been for a Cakewalk product that they didn't have to pay a 3rd party for, then the potential sting wouldn't be so bad.
 
Anyway, I apologize to anybody that was offended by my previous post.  I stand by the message, but I acknowledge that the words could have been better crafted.
 
As far as my horse goes, yes the view is fantastic and the air is better up here too.  Plus I don't have to worry about some guy or gal not getting a xmas bonus because of the money their goof-up ended up costing because I demanded they follow thru on the transaction.  It is more important to me that the marketing dude's kid gets something meaningful for xmas than for me to get a super-duper, too good to be true bargain on more software toys.  Really.
 
Call me an arrogant old bas7ard or whatever you like.  This is my last on this topic.  Enjoy having the last words.
 
And Happy Holidays!!
 
 
 
 
post edited by BobF - 2015/11/30 21:11:36

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msorrels
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:05:10 (permalink)
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I think the real problem here is the Cleverbridge-Cakewalk store really doesn't seem up to the task.  It doesn't show anything about orders -- only products.  You can't tell when you bought something (just a registration date, maybe) or for how much.  It doesn't appear to track transactions at all (from the customer info panels).
 
The fact that it's already 6pm out here in Seattle on Monday and still no email on this is also telling.  The only thing the store did seem to do quickly is bill my credit card.
 
I gave up on getting this and just ordered it from AudioDeluxe.  Despite the fact they must be under fairly heavy load they sent my serial number in less than 2 hours (they process things by hand).
 
Cakewalk should work on making the account page/transaction/order process functional, because it's not.

-Matt
 
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:25:45 (permalink)
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Refund fine by me as long as we don't have to chase it up. Send us a mail confirmation or something. Thanks.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/30 21:37:13

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:27:23 (permalink)
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I still haven't heard anything. I wrote to support yesterday, and I've Pm'd Andrew requesting a refund. I'm okay with a honest mistake, but surely they could respond by now.
...if not, I'm guessing cleverbridge's order tracking is less than ideal. So maybe through this, the system can be improved.

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:27:27 (permalink)
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A few months of the Sonar membership may work for me.

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:31:47 (permalink)
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clintmartin
still haven't heard anything. I wrote to support yesterday, and I've Pm'd Andrew requesting a refund. I'm okay with a honest mistake, but surely they could respond by now.


There has only really been one or two working days. Responding to everybody on this won't exactly be a 5 min job. Yesterday was Sunday during Thanksgiving in the US.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/30 21:44:46

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slyman
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:36:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/11/30 22:13:00
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Doktor Avalanche
Refund fine by me as long as we don't have to chase it up. Send us a mail confirmation or something. Thanks.

Agreed. I understand a delay to refund everyone, but geeze, just drop us a line to confirm, at the very least.

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LarHawes
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:40:14 (permalink)
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One last post. If it were my company there wouldn't even be a meeting. "Hey team, we made a mistake, honor our deal, we'll get over it, now go make some great software."
backwoods
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:47:11 (permalink)
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LarHawes
One last post. If it were my company there wouldn't even be a meeting. "Hey team, we made a mistake, honor our deal, we'll get over it, now go make some great software."




If you are running tight margins and can't afford it, already make great software at a great price and the phony deal is all over the internet it might not be doable IMO.
 
If you went to a restaurant and handed over your card and the cashier accidentally put an extra zero at the end would you be happy to pay that amount? Would you expect them to honour that error?
 
Everyone is entitled to get aggrieved etc and God knows I fire up for no good reason on occasion, but they made an honest mistake... 

 
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:53:15 (permalink)
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LarHawes
One last post. If it were my company there wouldn't even be a meeting. "Hey team, we made a mistake, honor our deal, we'll get over it, now go make some great software."


'BTW none of us get paid this month because we lost a shed load of money, your wife and kids will be starving.. But that's awesome right??'...

Team: 'Awesome!!! We did what is right... Let's make software ... Woo yeah!! High fives!!!'

Meanwhile in the real world..
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/30 22:08:09

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backwoods
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:56:11 (permalink)
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way to misquote Alex... 
 


 
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:57:58 (permalink)
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Didn't misquote, just quoted the wrong person.. Really sorry corrected!!
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/30 22:10:00

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 21:58:48 (permalink)
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cool Alex- sorry I was a bastard the other day . Hope you are well in London. my sister is over there at the moment.

 
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 22:06:13 (permalink)
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Doktor Avalanche
clintmartin
still haven't heard anything. I wrote to support yesterday, and I've Pm'd Andrew requesting a refund. I'm okay with a honest mistake, but surely they could respond by now.


There has only really been one or two working days. Responding to everybody on this won't exactly be a 5 min job. Yesterday was Sunday during Thanksgiving in the US.

That depends. Doesn't it? There may have only been 20 orders or less. I'm totally okay with just a refund, but I do expect an e-mail 72 hours after I've been charged for something I won't receive.
I'm not mad at all. The typed word can't always express things clearly, but I don't want people to think I'm fuming over this. I'm not. It's only $40.
 

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 22:18:01 (permalink)
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clintmartin
Doktor Avalanche
clintmartin
still haven't heard anything. I wrote to support yesterday, and I've Pm'd Andrew requesting a refund. I'm okay with a honest mistake, but surely they could respond by now.


There has only really been one or two working days. Responding to everybody on this won't exactly be a 5 min job. Yesterday was Sunday during Thanksgiving in the US.

That depends. Doesn't it? There may have only been 20 orders or less. I'm totally okay with just a refund, but I do expect an e-mail 72 hours after I've been charged for something I won't receive.
I'm not mad at all. The typed word can't always express things clearly, but I don't want people to think I'm fuming over this. I'm not. It's only $40.
 


That's $60 for me....(Canada). :-)

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SimpleM
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/11/30 22:51:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2015/12/01 04:02:09
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BobF
SimpleM
BobF
I'm shocked by some of these posts.  This thread started because it seemed too good to be true.  Is the mistakenly presented deal that important to some of you?
 
"Wow" is all I can think of to say.  Is it really THAT important to get whatever you can get? 
 
Andrew:  Regardless of the decision you guys make, please refund my transaction.  I don't want to be associated with this.


Hey, while you are up there on your high horse, do you mind checking the horizon for any other lowlifes that might have an opinion different than yours.  I'd hate for them to sully the name of all the perfect Sonar users.

No one, not one person has been adamant about demanding Cake honor the deal, all have been conciliatory to the possible eventuality of simply a refund.

That they give opinions or past-case scenarios or opined hopes they get what the offer stated does not make them bad persons. 

Your comment of disassociation called out every forum poster that did not just say they would prefer a refund.

Well played sir, well played.

 
Actually, my post called out "some of these posts" ... A bit over the top?  Perhaps.  It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. 
 
If you're still reading ...
 
I don't view Cakewalk as just some retail outlet.  They have been my partner for a very long time.  I don't always agree with them, and when I don't I say so, but the net net of it all is that I prefer them to be successful so they can continue on with their part of our relationship.  Otherwise all of my Cake stuff withers and becomes as useless as the effort I have expended getting to know their software.
 
If this had been for a Cakewalk product that they didn't have to pay a 3rd party for, then the potential sting wouldn't be so bad.
 
Anyway, I apologize to anybody that was offended by my previous post.  I stand by the message, but I acknowledge that the words could have been better crafted.
 
As far as my horse goes, yes the view is fantastic and the air is better up here too.  Plus I don't have to worry about some guy or gal not getting a xmas bonus because of the money their goof-up ended up costing because I demanded they follow thru on the transaction.  It is more important to me that the marketing dude's kid gets something meaningful for xmas than for me to get a super-duper, too good to be true bargain on more software toys.  Really.
 
Call me an arrogant old bas7ard or whatever you like.  This is my last on this topic.  Enjoy having the last words.
 
And Happy Holidays!!
 
 
 
 



I probably should not have called you out with my sarcasm and for that I apologize.

I took umbrage with the fact that none of the folks demanded anything and your post hit me as if you were saying they did and with all the ranker and uncertainty of the situation, I was pretty railed up.

It was as if you were villanizing folks for wanting what they thought they were offered as a great deal.  Did it sound almost too good to be true?  Sure, but you know, there is the principal of "loss leader" that just maybe Cake and XLN were employing.  (much like the Producer pack that came advertised as part of top-shelf Sonar, the pricing structure did not reflect a huge jump in product price but did include features that would cost you $$$ if bought separate)

I too am a long time user and extremely loyal to Cakewalk.  Started in the late 90s and never looked back.  I can not tell you how many clients I had approach me and decided without ever hearing my work to go elsewhere simply because I used Cakewalk instead of Pro Tools.  I stuck it out, earned the business of some of those same clients with superior product than the "Pro Tools guys" later down the road and have never even considered buying another DAW.  Cakewalk is my DAW of choice, I no longer even worry about Cubase or Protools, I just stay on top of the latest and greatest Sonar. 

I know this much, the more AD content I get, the more I want.  I used to split my drum VSTi use among a few different titles.  I originally had EZdrummer and once Session Drummer came out, I would use it as well for variety of sound, (although not with the loops it had, just as a player for programmed or other pre-made loops, the loop creation is still clunky at best) Since AD came with Sonar and the added free AD packs, I find the versatility of sounds means I no longer need to have more than one host.  So now I don't have to worry about when EZD does an upgrade or what amazing thing BFD puts out and whether or not to buy it, I just buy AD packs.  AD has my market cornered and even if I get the deal, I will buy more AD packs in the future to finish the suite, this was just going to allow my cost per pack to come down some.  It also affect how soon I can afford to buy more AD packs.  AD and Cake need sales this season, but they need them in the future even more so when new versions of Sonar debut and when XLN creates new content.

Honoring the deal will further cement old clients and create new loyal followers and in the end, that earns money, not causes loss.


In a perfect world, Cake gets with XLN, they talk about the mistake, honor the deal and share the loss of profit.  If Cake was making X% and XLN was making X% then they lose that POTENTIAL sales profit on what is probably no more than 100 orders at best (unless there are hundreds out there that ordered and are ok with getting nothing but we are not hearing from.  Alas, not everybody is a forum user.)  However, in the end It is not like they lost anything other than potential future revenues for 3 AD, Midi and Kit piece packs.  If they never intended to sell this, then they have no investment other than the hourly rate they paid the folks that set up the website, which they were spending anyway.  The revenue spent in the future on additional content beyond this deal by cementing users makes for continued customer return down the road.

Intellectual property sales is slightly different than durable goods and the complexity of a multiple level product plan (add on content) make loss leading much less painful than giving away durable goods.

Would I like to see CW and XLN honor it, sure, am I demanding it?  No, and neither is anyone else.  This is a sticky choice they are faced with and I am sure numbers have been crunched and conversations have occurred to question what will benefit them the most in the future.  Seeing our passion and opinions simply gives them data for those choices be it from the folks that show disappointment or from folks like you that are more laid back about it and offer them reassurance.

As conversations about sales and product issues go, this one has been extremely benign and civil, Talking about something like on this forum this beats the heck out of a facebook or Twitter smear campaign.

Again, for my initial response to your post, I apologize.

Rob...
post edited by SimpleM - 2015/11/30 23:05:08
Andrew Rossa
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 00:15:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bluzdog 2015/12/01 08:20:23
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Sorry for the delay. We are working on a few possible resolutions. Probably won't be resolved until the AM. If you want, please contact Cleverbridge and they will be happy to refund you now. Just to be clear, this was an honest mistake and by no means was it meant to be mislead customers. The product was not even setup and no one received delivery. If it had been delivered to customers, this would certainly be a different story. We do try and do right by customers and are working on a resolution but this is a little more difficult because it involves a third party who had absolutely no fault in this matter. It's not fair for us to devalue their product, regardless if it was an accident or not. If this was a Cakewalk product, more than likely we would honor it. So it's slightly more complicated for that reason.

I do pretty much understand how most people feel so in case it hasn't been said, message received. 
post edited by Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] - 2015/12/01 00:40:06
RD9
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 00:35:47 (permalink)
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Some thoughts on this issue:
  • Most purchasers of the product seem to want to be fair to Cakewalk.  After all, we are a pretty classy lot.
  • Right now it looks like Cakewalk is trying to find a way to refund the money, however, they may have some legal obligations they are not aware of.   The consumer laws are different in different jurisdictions where Cakewalk sells their products (e.g. Europe, US, Canada and Australia).  It is possible in some or all of these jurisdictions Cakewalk can be forced to provide the product at the advertised price.
  • Cleverbridge is a payment processor (sort of like PayPal) and probably doesn't have any standing since the error was made by Cakewalk.
Some suggestions are below:
  1. CW staff should make sure they have consulted with their legal department ASAP.  A stitch in time and all that. 
  2. While a refund might be an option, it may be fairer if they offer the product "at cost".  This would address the issue where some may have missed out on other sales.
  3. CW could also allow purchasers to put the money towards a similarly priced item, e.g. a single AD2 drum kit.
Cheers.
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 00:48:44 (permalink)
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Sorry for the delay. We are working on a few possible resolutions. Probably won't be resolved until the AM. If you want, please contact Cleverbridge and they will be happy to refund you now. Just to be clear, this was an honest mistake and by no means was it meant to be mislead customers. The product was not even setup and no one received delivery. If it had been delivered to customers, this would certainly be a different story. We do try and do right by customers and are working on a resolution but this is a little more difficult because it involves a third party who had absolutely no fault in this matter. It's not fair for us to devalue their product, regardless if it was an accident or not. If this was a Cakewalk product, more than likely we would honor it. So it's slightly more complicated for that reason.

I do pretty much understand how most people feel so in case it hasn't been said, message received. 




There ya go. Maybe time to close this thread.

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 01:26:19 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info, Andrew. It's nice to know that you guys are working to make things right. I've done stuff like this before and it's cost me plenty of pain (and money!) so I completely understand the fix you guys find yourselves in.
 
That said, I was pumped to find and purchase what looked like a great, but not ridiculous, Black Friday deal, and I'm not keen about having to accept a refund. If that's the verdict, I don't guess there's much I could do about it, and if that were to happen I most certainly would not hold any grudges against Cakewalk. I'd likely continue to be a good customer going forward, but - I wouldn't like it, no question about it. 
 
So any resolution of the situation that ends up with me wallowing in blissful ownership of some cool new AD products is all for the good, which is what I was looking to buy after all. And forum folks, that doesn't make me a bad guy.

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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 01:43:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2015/12/01 02:09:42
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Doktor Avalanche
LarHawes
One last post. If it were my company there wouldn't even be a meeting. "Hey team, we made a mistake, honor our deal, we'll get over it, now go make some great software."


'BTW none of us get paid this month because we lost a shed load of money, your wife and kids will be starving.. But that's awesome right??'...

Team: 'Awesome!!! We did what is right... Let's make software ... Woo yeah!! High fives!!!'

Meanwhile in the real world..



In the real world it's just as likely that no one is fired, the babies will continue to eat and the wife will remain happily clad in shoes. People make mistakes, yeah, but systems do too, sometimes because of inadequate or incomplete automated processes. Whatever the actual case here, tech companies aren't usually in the habit of flushing highly trained employees down the tubes for one mistake. They often are in the habit of biting the bullet and honoring the deals they make.
 
Whatever happens in this case, it's unreasonable imho to imply that someone is a heartless scumbag (my words, not yours) because they have a completely justifiable expectation that they receive the product they paid for. 
 
Happy holidays!

Kevin Walsh
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backwoods
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 01:54:10 (permalink)
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So your company was similarily hit kevinwal? how much did it cost u and what company seeing as u dont like anonymity.
 
post edited by backwoods - 2015/12/01 02:05:33

 
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 02:07:49 (permalink)
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backwoods
So your company was similarily hit kevinwal? how much did it cost u and what company seeing as u dont like anonymity.
 


Not too sure why anyone would set themselves up for an obvious personal attack.
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Re: AD2 Custom for $39?! Can this be right? 2015/12/01 02:16:51 (permalink)
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well, why shpuld it be 
RSMCGUITAR
backwoods
So your company was similarily hit kevinwal? how much did it cost u and what company seeing as u dont like anonymity.
 


Not too sure why anyone would set themselves up for an obvious personal attack.




well, if the product has not shipped Cakewalk is not obligated to fulfill these orders. i want to know kevinwals company which willingly threw away money for goodwill.

 
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