render to file messes up midi

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ØSkald
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2015/12/03 14:00:46 (permalink)

render to file messes up midi

The song plays fine in sonar. Have some tracks with Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol Vst and one Toontracks EZdrummer track. But when i render to file, the midi bleeds to other tracks.
 
My only solution for a while has been to freeze all KK synths and then it renders ok.
 
Anyone having the same issue?
post edited by Jarsve - 2015/12/27 16:31:42

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    scook
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/03 15:17:58 (permalink)
    Some synths pass MIDI through or generate MIDI data on their own. This can be a problem if instrument and MIDI track inputs are set to Omni. Make sure all inputs are set to None or the appropriate controller. This can also get tweaked if Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" is enabled.
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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/03 19:30:30 (permalink)
    scook
    Some synths pass MIDI through or generate MIDI data on their own. This can be a problem if instrument and MIDI track inputs are set to Omni. Make sure all inputs are set to None or the appropriate controller. This can also get tweaked if Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" is enabled.


    As I stated, it is only when rendering to a file this happens. Synths bleed hits into toontrack ezd 2 etcetera. But not in normal play and record.

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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/11 19:56:14 (permalink)
    The problem still exist in latest sonar

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    brundlefly
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/12 14:16:01 (permalink)
    You're going to have to give steps to reproduce this. I'm not sure I even really understand what the symptom is. Is it that synths are rendering MIDI from tracks that are not outputting to them? If that's the case, I'm thinking it's likely you've got issues with output port routing of a drum map.

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    williamcopper
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/12 17:37:34 (permalink)
    Other than routing, could also possibly be related to midi lookback of controller values, and "reset to Zero" in the preferences ... for sure there are many reasons that a render is not the same as what you thought you had worked out live. 
    #6
    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/14 04:38:38 (permalink)
    This is how it sounds in playback and record:
    Ingen Vinner Frem Til Den Evige Ro 0.2.4 How It Should Sound
    https://soundcloud.com/oyvind-jarsve/ingen-vinner-frem-til-den-evige-ro-024-how-it-should-sound/s-H6uqN
     
    This is how it sounds i when fast render to wav file:
    Ingen Vinner Frem Til Den Evige Ro 0.2.4 Without Track Freeze
    https://soundcloud.com/oyvind-jarsve/ingen-vinner-frem-til-den-evige-ro-024-without-track-freeze/s-j5JxZ
     
    This is how it sounds without fast rendering to file:
    Ingen Vinner Frem Til Den Evige Ro 0.2.4 Unfreeze And Unfast Bounce
    https://soundcloud.com/oyvind-jarsve/ingen-vinner-frem-til-den-evige-ro-024-unfreeze-and-unfast-bounce/s-L6d8Y
     
    Here is some Printscreen files as the wav files:
    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=616ADFB376B20C18!2083909&authkey=!AI_-goccBKnPprY&ithint=folder%2cpng
     

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    #7
    brundlefly
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/15 17:21:49 (permalink)
    I was going to suggest it might be a problem with synths having MIDI OUT enabled, and tracks being set to receive those outputs, but didn't because that should affect live playback as well as rendering. But looking at the first screenshot from SONAR, I am seeing the input of MIDI track 19 set to one of the outputs from Komplete Control with Auto-echo enabled. That's going to be a problem.
     
    If you're going to have Always Echo Current MIDI Track enabled in preferences, you need to make sure that track inputs are deliberately set to a physical input port that isn't receiving anything, and/or ensure that MIDI OUT is not enabled on any of the synths.

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    #8
    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/15 21:38:41 (permalink)
    The input is from the komplete kontrol keyboard. I need that to work!

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    brundlefly
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/16 02:49:12 (permalink)
    Okay. I wondered about that. Not familiar with Komplete Kontrol.
     
    It's kind of hard to know what's going on with the audio without knowing what individual tracks sound like, and how everything is routed. I can only suggested you freeze all tracks, confirm the frozen tracks play correctly through the Master bus, and then export with Source = Buses, and only the Master selected.
     
     

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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/17 05:05:06 (permalink)
    freezing of tracks work perfectly. its that i use on every track with synths so i can render to file. it is the rendering to file process that is f'ing it up.

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/17 08:33:58 (permalink)
    Hmm that's bizarre. Are you selecting the entire project before the export?
    Try selecting nothing by clearing the selection (Edit select none) before doing the export to make sure that the entire mix is being exported.
    Can you reduce the project to just the tracks that exhibit the issue and send us the project so we can try and repro it? You can submit a bug or PM me a link to the project file.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
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    #12
    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/17 11:50:59 (permalink)
    There is really no difference in bouncing the master buss or entire mix. even audible bouncing messes up the midi.
    Can it be that there is an issue with NI Komplete Kontrol VST plugin?
     
    I am uploading lading the project file.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/17 12:36:18 (permalink)
    Jarsve
    ...messes up the midi.



    Having a copy of the project will likely allow Noel et al. to get to the bottom of it. If not, you'll need to clarify the exact nature of "messes up MIDI". I can't tell from listening to the exported mix exactly what is occurring and which track output(s) is/are not correct.

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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/17 13:26:29 (permalink)
    He got a link to the project now.
    I guess it is for the most, the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol VST that is affecting by this. I runn every synth from Native Instrument through en instance of Komplete Kontrol VST. It is also the latest version of all. bit i have heard that the Toontrack EZdrummer made some sounds from other tracks in rendering.

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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/21 20:02:06 (permalink)
    Any news?
    All my projects is this way.

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    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/27 16:13:06 (permalink)
    same problem with latest install. does anyone else here use the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol vst wrapper for the Koplete synths and samples? and how does it work with export to file?
     
    You have to have the Native Instruments Komplete 9/10 and the Komplete Kontrol keyboard and use the bundeled WST plugin wrapper for this to be a problem.
     


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    #17
    ØSkald
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/30 10:50:49 (permalink)
    Is the only solution to abandon Sonar and buy a DAW that works with Native Instruments?
    post edited by Jarsve - 2015/12/30 11:06:01

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    #18
    brundlefly
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/30 13:05:44 (permalink)
    Have you tried talking to NI tech support about this? At least you could find out whether they can reproduce it. Also, it's not uncommon that an interoperability issue between two products can be addressed by either party, though it might require cooperation between programmers on both sides to understand the root cause.

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    Beepster
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    Re: render to file messes up midi 2015/12/30 13:10:25 (permalink)
    Jarsve
    Is the only solution to abandon Sonar and buy a DAW that works with Native Instruments?




    I'm sure there is a solution but as Brundlefly said you may want to contact Native Instruments support but I will also suggest asking Cakewalk support as well.
     
    I just don't understand the problem myself (because I don't own the products) so I can't help.
     
    Cheers.
    #20
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