Now What?

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konradh
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2015/12/13 16:38:45 (permalink)

Now What?

I am on X1D and still have a number of problems: some which have been here a long time, and some which have appeared recently.
 
Examples:
1. Snap is messed up.  When I draw notes or try to drag select, the times do not snap to even quarters, bars, etc.  I get odd values like 4:04:37 or 2:1:109, etc.  This was documented in a previous thread and all the common and obvious solutions were tested.
2. I lose audio if "too many" VIs are installed.  "Too many" can be 7, or 11, or 12 or some other number.  Task manager says I have plenty of memory and CPU available.
3. Copy/Cut/Paste sometimes work from short-cut keys (Ctrl+v,c,x) and sometimes don't.  I sometimes get strange behaviors from the corresponding menu options.
 
Several people suggested upgrading.  That's fine, but I'd like to know why I have issues other users don't have with a stable release.  Suppose I take the money and time to upgrade and still have these problems?  Without understanding what's going on, an upgrade is like kicking the TV to fix the picture.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#1

26 Replies Related Threads

    John
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 16:59:51 (permalink)
    There is a demo to try if you are interested. X1 was a version at its beginning. It did have bugs. Since then we have had X2 and X3 and now Sonar 2015. We looking at Sonar 2016 coming out soon. I can tell you CW has done an outstanding job of fixing the bugs.
     
    I think those that have been advising upgrading are giving you very good advice.   
    post edited by John - 2015/12/13 17:20:48

    Best
    John
    #2
    jpetersen
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 17:31:24 (permalink)
    X1 was known for bugs, being an early Skylight release. Most people couldn't wait to move to X2.
    But if moving to Platinum helps with your specific issues is hard to say.
    New features get added, only to be found buggy. Latest example is Vocal Sync.
     
    Worrying is when you say "some which have appeared recently".
    I assume this is on the same X1D, same system, features you have used a long time?
     
    But I sense a sincere push from the bakers to get the accumulated technical debt paid off.
    Even Noel gets involved. This gives me heart and I am taking the time to diligently post repeatable bugs.
     
    So for what it's worth, my advice would be to wait a bit.
    #3
    Larry Jones
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 17:32:04 (permalink)
    konradh
    Without understanding what's going on, an upgrade is like kicking the TV to fix the picture.


    I hear you. I've geeked with computers and software for many years, gradually becoming the go-to guy among all my friends and relatives when something digital needs fixing. I started off wanting to diagnose exactly what went wrong, but long ago I decided that it was more important to get back to work than to know what the problem actually was. Most of the time it doesn't do any good to know, anyway. So kicking the TV is as good a technique as any in my book, if it works. An upgrade to new Sonar might fix things for you, or, as you hint, it might not. You can accomplish roughly the same thing for free by uninstalling/reinstalling the version you have, and maybe using some kind of registry cleaner to tidy things up there.
     
    Other than that, I got nothin'.

    SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB  Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
    #4
    mixmkr
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 18:45:32 (permalink)
    as stated, X1 was the first release of a totally revamped program...so they could more easily update and upgrade.  Consider you're about 4 versions back at this point, in which although new bugs have been introduced, the program IN GENERAL has become more stable as releases come out.  I personally think the current version offers an incredible amount more than the first X series.  Also as stated, try the demo....but you're not kicking a TV to fix it.  You're buying a new 4k flat panel and ditching the old tube with the VCR built in.  Yeah..I don't think the new flat panels have VCR's built in.  Not being sarcastic, honestly....but you outta upgrade if money isn't a stopping point.  There's monthly membership payments too.

    some tunes: --->        www.masonharwoodproject.bandcamp.com 
    StudioCat i7 4770k 3.5gHz, 16 RAM,  Sonar Platinum, CD Arch 5.2, Steinberg UR-44
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    #5
    Sidroe
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 19:30:02 (permalink)
    Update to Platinum! Stable as a rock on my system. The best version of Sonar yet! Worth every penny! I sound like a Cakewalk commercial. Yikes.

    Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 19:56:33 (permalink)
    There were so many negative posts here when x1 and x2 came out so I stayed with 8.5 until X3. Things seems to calm down and everyone was pretty happy by then. As it is I will always recommend the upgrade. It cost very little when there is a sale. Make sure your signed up for the newsletters and e mails. 
    There's not much point complaining about an old version as 98% ( wild guess)  of us have moved on. That's how software works. Upgrades are for making improvements and old versions become unsupported the next day. And X1 was even under Roland which is long gone now. 
    Try complaining to Micro soft about XP... Lots of products have good and bad versions and years, to bad you got stuck with the lemon...
    8.5 was good, X3 was very good and all of the new releases have been solid for me. 
     

    Johnny V  
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    #7
    John
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 20:42:16 (permalink)
    Also even though your concern is stability which is superb in Sonar Platinum. Once you have a look at things like Mix Recall or Patch points or the Drum Replacer I believe strongly you will sound like us in very short order. The list of improvements and new features is lengthy and impressive. Plus there will be no new versions as such. Just constant improvements and features added. That maybe difficult to get ones head around but its what this year is all about. And next year is going to be the same. Its time to upgrade. 

    Best
    John
    #8
    lawajava
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 20:46:07 (permalink)
    Without reading this thread, through this weekend I've just been marvelling at how great everything is now.
     
    Sonar is fast, fast.  I don't have glitches occurring.  I'm doing more complicated and better stuff than ever.  The new patch points routing is a joy.
     
    It's just great. 

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #9
    KingsMix
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/13 20:57:08 (permalink)
    +1 Do the Demo.
    What can you loose?
    #10
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 10:51:58 (permalink)
    #1 and #3 sound like software issues that may have existed in X1d and are meanwhile fixed. I never came across them myself but I haven't used X1d long enough (X2a was in use for long time, X3e still is installed and used occasionally). I'd install the demo and work it for a while, should be easy to find out if it is fixed if it is happening frequently on your system.
     
    #2 maybe a software issue (e.g. performance related inside Sonar), so there is a fair chance it works better now since we have just got 2 rounds of performance improvements, many related to synths ... or it is one of the strangest hardware issues ever (but you won't get any support for X1d, so that's a dead end street)
     
    I would also recommend upgrading. New features are really worth it as mentioned above. Plus there is good support for Platinum with many issues being addressed that we listed/discussed/reproduced in this forum.

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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    #11
    bz2838
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 13:08:49 (permalink)
    Time to upgrade to Platinum, best Cakewalk program ever!

    Purrrfect Audio:  Intel i7 7700k (Kabylake), 32Gig DDR4/2133, Windows 10x64 Pro, USB RME Babyface, Sonar Platinum Current
    #12
    brundlefly
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 13:18:42 (permalink)
    konradh
    2. I lose audio if "too many" VIs are installed.  "Too many" can be 7, or 11, or 12 or some other number.  Task manager says I have plenty of memory and CPU available.



    Have you tried increasing the default value or MIDI Prepare Using Buffer from 250ms to 500ms or more?
     

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
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    #13
    jpetersen
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 15:55:35 (permalink)
    Oh? Well, if number 2 really IS due to the "Prepare using xxx milisecond buffers" setting,
    then perhaps it'll help to say that I had cause to open my X1 recently and I found I'd
    needed to set it to 1000ms to get it to work without losing midi notes. And I only used
    Session Drummer back then.
     
    It was announced back then that, as of X2 (I think?!?), the default value would be
    increased to 500ms and it seems still be that in Kingston.

    Sorry, this is one of those old issues that come up time and again, I assumed
    konradh would be aware of it.
    #14
    DeeringAmps
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 17:19:04 (permalink)
    Konradh did have issues that seemed to be system specific.
    This is a Sweetwater system, wasn't it?
    I would go ahead and "take the plunge" as most are suggesting.
    BUT, there is the demo, download and try it first!
    I would do a system image first, just in case.
    That way if Platinum introduces new issues for X1, you're not stuck.
    Just a nickel98...
    Tom
    post edited by DeeringAmps - 2015/12/14 17:30:54

    Tom Deering
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    #15
    sharke
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/14 18:13:14 (permalink)
    Platinum is leaps and bounds ahead of X1d. So many hundreds of annoying bugs and oddities have been fixed since then. If upgrading is financially viable to you I would advise it strongly. You might have a couple of weeks of "huh" getting to know a new version but pretty soon you'll be wondering how you managed with X1 for so long - Platinum is so much more stable, faster and just works great.

    However if you're still against upgrading I would recommend doing a complete removal of everything Sonar related and a fresh install. There have to be X1 uninstall instructions somewhere which tell you what to delete in the registry etc.
    post edited by sharke - 2015/12/14 18:25:03

    James
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    #16
    konradh
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/20 15:41:25 (permalink)
    My apologies for failing to reply sooner to all the excellent comments.  I have been on the road almost constantly for a while.  Thanks very much.
     
    1-Based on all advice, it seems best to take a system image and then upgrade.
    2-I do have some concerns about getting all my software libraries working after an upgrade, since this was a problem with the initial install.  I have a lot invested there: Vienna Special Edition Vienna Dimension Strings, Hollywood Strings, RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, several Scarbee Basses, EZ Drummer, Kontakt libraries...well, there are quite a few.
    3-I am running on a Sweetwater system and, with all due respect to Sweetwater and the many hours they have spent trying to help, I fear something was set up wrong to begin with.  Maybe an upgrade will resolve things, or at least point us to the issue.
    4-I have almost bought vocal sync software several times because I use a LOT of harmony parts and do a ton of hand work in Melodyne; so, needless to say, I am excited about having an integrated solution.
     
    With all I have invested in software, a Sonar upgrade, though certainly not cheap, is not a huge investment relatively speaking.  It is more that I am a little cowardly about rocking the boat and making things worse, but what the hell: you only live once.
     

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #17
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/20 15:53:38 (permalink)
    You should find the upgrade process pretty easy, intuitive and fairly speedy (depending on your internet speed).
     
    Keep us posted with your progress, looking forward to reading about it

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #18
    konradh
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/20 16:07:09 (permalink)
    Thanks, buddy.
     

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #19
    mettelus
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/20 23:55:15 (permalink)
    konradh
     
    With all I have invested in software, a Sonar upgrade, though certainly not cheap, is not a huge investment relatively speaking. 




    That comment is what sticks out most for me. I ran X3 in tandem with X1d for a long time because a friend stopped at X1d and I needed to keep it up and running. Just the experience of running them side-by-side for so long made me realize the limitations of X1d and that I would never return to it as a "main stay." Platinum has made a lot of enhancements and bug fixes over X3 even, with a much better response time to show stopping issues due to the new model. X3 had one hot fix IIRC, and Platinum gets them in under two weeks when needed, and can roll back to a previous version.
     
    As far as installation, a system restore point as well as a C drive image prior to installation would be highly recommended. I did learn first hand when I rebuilt this machine in July do NOT installed X1 stuff after Platinum (it messed with my staff view font).
     
    Another mitigation for potential issues is to do a save as on projects being pulled forward with the version in the title. Just in case something happens, the previous version's cwp is fully in tact and can be completed in that prior version. In your case, please make a habit of doing that save as religiously, such as "[file name from X1d] - Plat-K.cwp" etc.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #20
    konradh
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/22 11:49:58 (permalink)
    Hey, Michael.  Thanks.  When you say, " do NOT install X1 stuff after Platinum," what do you mean?  I have a lot of pre-existing virtual instruments.  What would X1 stuff be?  Do you mean like old plug-ins (reverbs and stuff) that might be on my hard drive?

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #21
    mettelus
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/23 06:24:26 (permalink)
    Sorry for the confusion. I meant to install SONAR versions in sequential order. As you already have X1 installed, installing Platinum is not an issue. In my case I "rushed" installation from X1-through-Platinum, then realized I had to re-install X1. That also caused registry issues installing X1 from scratch after X1 Expanded was installed (the S/N's are different). If you ever get into a rebuild situation from scratch, be sure to install versions you want to use in sequential order.
     
    For a simple upgrade from X1->Platinum, you would not notice this and is not an issue.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #22
    konradh
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/23 13:43:47 (permalink)
    Gotcha.  Thanks for clearing that up.

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #23
    John
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/23 14:02:23 (permalink)
    konradh
     
    With all I have invested in software, a Sonar upgrade, though certainly not cheap, is not a huge investment relatively speaking.  It is more that I am a little cowardly about rocking the boat and making things worse, but what the hell: you only live once.
     


    What the heck Konradh, walk on the wild side, upgrade! 

    Best
    John
    #24
    jsg
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/23 14:20:42 (permalink)
    konradh
    I am on X1D and still have a number of problems: some which have been here a long time, and some which have appeared recently.
     
    Examples:
    1. Snap is messed up.  When I draw notes or try to drag select, the times do not snap to even quarters, bars, etc.  I get odd values like 4:04:37 or 2:1:109, etc.  This was documented in a previous thread and all the common and obvious solutions were tested.
    2. I lose audio if "too many" VIs are installed.  "Too many" can be 7, or 11, or 12 or some other number.  Task manager says I have plenty of memory and CPU available.
    3. Copy/Cut/Paste sometimes work from short-cut keys (Ctrl+v,c,x) and sometimes don't.  I sometimes get strange behaviors from the corresponding menu options.
     
    Several people suggested upgrading.  That's fine, but I'd like to know why I have issues other users don't have with a stable release.  Suppose I take the money and time to upgrade and still have these problems?  Without understanding what's going on, an upgrade is like kicking the TV to fix the picture.




    The latest version of Platinum (Lexington) has several staff-view fixes.  The problem of right-clicking on a note below the staff to get the properties menu has been repaired.  The problem of a dotted note hitting the staff line has been repaired and the snap function is working, but not exactly as it should.  By that I mean that when you choose a note and place it on the staff, it will snap to the right place, but it doesn't seem to be interdependent with the note chosen.  In other words, if you choose an eighth note, the snap moves at intervals smaller than an eighth note, but it doesn't cause a problem in putting the note exactly where it needs to be. 
     
    Jerry
    www.jerrygerber.com
     
     
     
    #25
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/24 08:52:34 (permalink)
    Hi Konrad,
     
    I completely understand users not wanting to upgrade because of the investment in time esp if they are heavily involved in production and can't afford any downtime. I've seen studios using ancient versions or obsolete software/hardware just because they are used to it. Nothing wrong with it - musicians still use instruments that are 60-70 years old and don't even play that well after all :)
     
    Anyway regarding X1 my honest advice is to move on and upgrade. There are literally thousands of bugs that have been fixed since then. You seem to have a decent system set up. I can't see why Platinum won't run leaps and bounds better than X1 on your rig. In fact with all the optimizations I think you will find that it saves you valuable time since many common operations are much faster.
     
    Regarding your bugs there were many fixes to snap etc since X1 so if its bugging you (pun intended) upgrading will address this. We haven't heard reports of these issues in Platinum. You shouldn't have to do any setup to your plugins. Installing SONAR won't change that - it will just rescan your plugins using the newer improved/faster scanner. The only thing you may need to tweak there is if you were using custom plugin layouts. You should be able to save and restore those however for the most part. If you want to be really cautious do a system image so you can restore it if for some reason you need to roll back. If you have any issues in Platinum that are genuine bugs there is a high likelihood they will be fixed soon, as compared to X1 which would be never!
     
    Good luck.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
    #26
    Paul P
    Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
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    Re: Now What? 2015/12/24 10:55:54 (permalink)
    mettelus
    Sorry for the confusion. I meant to install SONAR versions in sequential order.



    And never uninstall an old version after installing a new one.
     

    Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
    #27
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