Helpful ReplyMelodyne question

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keneds
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2015/12/23 19:02:01 (permalink)

Melodyne question

I recently comped a vocal track and I'm curious on how the best method to apply Melodyne.
Should I transfer the entire track into Melodyne for pitch correction and tuning and then double the corrected track? Or....double the track and correct both separately? On other previous projects I've had some problems with the proper cloning of a Melodyne corrected track. Any advice on methods? Thx.

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Danny Danzi
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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/23 23:49:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby HELLYA 2015/12/25 11:52:43
Not sure I totally understand what you're asking so I'll just tell you what I would do and what I DO currently.
 
Most of the time, I correct a track and bounce to clip when I'm done. This of course is destructive, but I use so little of Melodyne for myself personally, I can get away with it.
 
For clients, I clone their original track before I even open Melodyne. From there, I can do whatever I need to do and I won't affect their original. I don't ever bring an entire track into Melodyne. I cut it up in clips, right click on the clip, select "region fx" and then "Melodyne, and that's how I use it. I can do anything there that I can do in the full blown editor so there is no reason for me to export something out.
 
As far as cloning a Melodyne corrected track and having problems, that may happen when you don't bounce Melodyne to the track. For example, if you clone it with Melodyne still active, there may be an issue there due to doubling Melodyne itself. I don't believe it's supposed to be used like that. I was always under the impression that you do what you need to do, bounce your corrections to a clip and then move on to your next part.
 
Each time you "bounce to clip" Melodyne applies itself to the track and disappears so you will never have multiple instances. Don't get me wrong, I've left a few instances on a track without "bouncing" but I believe after so many, you may encounter an issue. I've never had more than 3 instances. But if you are using it a bunch of times without bouncing/applying it to your tracks, that may be why you had problems. I don't know this for sure, just taking a guess really. At any rate, good luck!
 
-Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2015/12/24 00:03:27

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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/24 10:00:12 (permalink)
I work with Melodyne Editor (ME)  in much the same way Danny does.
 
I apply the effect to the track in a destructive way.  Since I rarely do outside client work, I don't worry about saving the original track. But when I do outside work or have a singer on my tunes, yes.... absolutely preserve that original track in a safe place.
 
Most times, I will let ME copy the entire track in and then I will apply the corrections I want MANUALLY after I have listened several times.   No auto-correct for me.  I work through it phrase by phrase and click on SAVE every few minutes. Once I'm done, I will do a playback start to finish listening for anything I might have missed. Once satisfied, I will "apply" ME to the track.
 
I used to try to fix everything. But now, I have changed my approach a bit and only fix the things that are obviously bad and need fixing.... well, most of the time.   In some songs, I simply do "Spot fixes" to catch a stray note here or there. All fixes are tested by playback and then applied destructively.
 
One other thing I do, is, at the beginning, I set up vocal busses and place my reverb and compressors in the buss and NOT the track FX bin. That leaves the track FX bin open so I can drop in ME to fix something, and when I print, I don't have to remove the reverb and then put it back after.  Nothing sucks like printing a reverb and realizing it much later...... it's hard to go back and fix the next day.
 
I don't clone or copy or use ME to do track doubling.  ALWAYS take the time to record a different take and do that as many times, on as many tracks as you need. I will often do 2 good takes, for left/right panning at lower levels and similar for the harmony/BGV tracks.  5 tracks is about average in a finished project.  Cloning or copying a track results in a "bit perfect" track. That can and will introduce other serious issues that you need to be aware of. Recording a different take, even though it sounds like a perfect match.... isn't. Problems can still occur but the end result is a better sounding mix due to the slight differences between the tracks.  That's the magic of a choir. The different voices.

The big question you need to ask and answer is..... do those secondary & BGV/Harmony  tracks even need to be pitch corrected?  If they are low level tracks, panned, and the singing is as close to syllable, pitch, timing, and phrase perfect as you can get them, and they are going to be used to thicken the much higher volume lead vocal track, the answer I have come up with is often "No". The inconsistencies will add character and if a note is slightly sharp or flat, 99% of the listeners won't even hear it.
 
You can, and I have, run ME on each track one at a time. Fix the timing, the pitch, the vibrato issues. And of course you would certainly want to do this for tracks where the vox will be clearly audible. Such as a duet singer or a vocal group where each voice is expected to be heard. If you do take the time to pitch correct everything, be careful about getting it "too perfect".... there's a downside to going to that extreme. It starts to sound "fake" to one degree or another because we all know people don't tend to sing perfectly. 
 
The point is, keep it sounding real. Hope this helps some.
 
 
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2015/12/24 10:16:50

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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/24 11:34:26 (permalink)
I'll just second the above comments. Work on a copy of the vocal track, save and archive the original just in case you need to start over. Then you don't have to fear destructive edits. I like to create a separate track folder to stick the backups into, to keep things tidy.
 
Like Danny and Herb, I strongly recommend that you use as light a touch as possible, constantly re-playing and auditioning your edits as you go. Make sure every change you make is really needed - only change pitches that are far enough off to be distracting. Even if they look off in the graphic, listen to them closely without referencing the pictures to decide if they really sound bad enough to warrant editing.
 
Don't be afraid to experiment while you're in the editor, as no harm is done if you apply an Undo there. What you want to avoid is re-editing a track that's already been edited and bounced. Artifacts are cumulative, so quality degrades each time, even with Melodyne.
 
I hate it when I bounce a track and then later hear a sour note that I missed, so I listen, listen, listen before bouncing. Measure twice, cut once, as the old saying goes.


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keneds
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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/24 17:42:23 (permalink)
Solid advice from all. I need to change the way I've been using it. I normally make three copies of the vocal track, pan one left, one right and one kept center.(read that somewhere on how to widen vox) Then I transfer each vocal track separately to ME, select the problem areas and correct pitch and key and let it roll with three corrected tracks. (probably explaining why i get the occasional drop out) Thank you!

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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/25 10:29:53 (permalink)
bitflipper
..... Make sure every change you make is really needed - only change pitches that are far enough off to be distracting. Even if they look off in the graphic, listen to them closely without referencing the pictures to decide if they really sound bad enough to warrant editing
 
..... What you want to avoid is re-editing a track that's already been edited and bounced. Artifacts are cumulative, so quality degrades each time, even with Melodyne.
 
I hate it when I bounce a track and then later hear a sour note that I missed, so I listen, listen, listen before bouncing. Measure twice, cut once, as the old saying goes.




I will say here that I will not hesitate to use ME a second time on the same track. I've never had any issues with artifacts occurring from a second  pass..... although let me clarify, it's not common that I do a second pass. There are times that I miss a note and I will do it then. At that point, it's a very small ME edit. I just grab that one phrase.

This also brings up another point about ME.  Sometimes, ME can not ...or at least I can not make it,  fix something that's really weird. We all get those little vocal blurbs that are not pitch related or are some other sort of anomaly in the audio stream. I try to fix them with ME and it generally ends up worse. The only reasonable solution there is to set the punch in/out points and record that part again. I usually delete the highlighted part between the punch points. After listening closely to the new part, I decide either to ME it or let it roll as is.
 
What Dave mentioned about not fixing the notes that ME shows to be slightly off...... good advice. I do this as well.....   LISTEN.... and if it sounds OK, leave it alone.   There have actually been times where I have fixed a note that looked off, only to find that when it was perfectly on pitch, it actually sounded "off" and I had to go back and  "undo" the edit.   The important thing is to use your ears and listen.

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Danny Danzi
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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/25 12:38:33 (permalink)
Guitarhacker

This also brings up another point about ME.  Sometimes, ME can not ...or at least I can not make it,  fix something that's really weird. We all get those little vocal blurbs that are not pitch related or are some other sort of anomaly in the audio stream. I try to fix them with ME and it generally ends up worse. The only reasonable solution there is to set the punch in/out points and record that part again. I usually delete the highlighted part between the punch points. After listening closely to the new part, I decide either to ME it or let it roll as is




Hey Herb, merry Christmas.....
 
I know this is crazy sounding, but the next time you experience that weird thing, try fixing it with V Vocal. For me, there are times when one of those vocal editors fixes what the other may not. I'm happy using both for certain things especially when you may not have the luxury of punching in a new vocal line. But seriously, try double V next time you experience one of those 'snerts' as I like to call them. :)
 
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Re: Melodyne question 2015/12/27 11:28:08 (permalink)
Danny... Happy New Year to you my friend.
 
I don't have VV but those "snerts"..... I like that name.... are mostly glitches in the actually singing of the part in most cases.  Sometimes the old vocal cords just don't behave and it's in an otherwise good take.  Fortunately, that doesn't happen often.

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