Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes?

Author
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1120
  • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Status: offline
2015/12/31 07:35:35 (permalink)

Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes?

I rarely have an actual sonar crash, and I rarely use midi CC 64 (sustain pedal).    Generally even in a heavily loaded project the Performance module shows low values for CPU activitiy.  
 
But recently in a very small project I've been having some lock-ups in a project that uses CC 64.    Is it possible that 'drawing' the off value (in PRV controller pain) to a low number, but not 0, can cause crashes or 100% cpu lockup?    
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2015/12/31 12:40:43 (permalink)
    I just tried re-drawing several CC64=0 to higher values in the PRV, and then changing all of them to CC64 =5 in one of my projects, and didn't encounter an problems. And I've not seen a problem with my RD-700NX which sends continuous pedal values. I would say your issue is either synth-specific or you're barking up the wrong tree that it's even related to the controllers.
     
    Is it while you're entering the controllers or during playback that you're having problems? If the latter, you can rule out the non-zero sustain controllers by using Process > Find Change to set everything below 64 to zero.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #2
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2015/12/31 15:39:33 (permalink)
    It might be something else.    The lockups have happened during long work sessions with a large number of starts, stops, changes of Now times.    But only in (I believe --- like any unexpected problem I didn't keep track until it happened) small projects (chorus and piano, all midi) with sustain pedal for three piano tracks.  
     
    Always on 'play', not during entering the values.   And not at the beginning of play necessarily.    Also, painfully, caused audio noise, my least favorite thing for my tired ears.   Also I very rarely change anything while a project is playing .. exception might be some tempo drawing, but this particular project had a stable tempo that I did not change. 
    post edited by williamcopper - 2015/12/31 15:56:07
    #3
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/02 05:55:43 (permalink)
    Since changing my project to ensure all CC64 values are 0 rather than just a low number less than 64, I have had no lockups, no startling CPU usage.  
     
    Might be worth a bug report if confirmed.  And perhaps a feature request: it is impossible to "draw" a 0 controller value in the PRV controller pain.
     
    post edited by williamcopper - 2016/01/02 06:09:25
    #4
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/02 06:11:10 (permalink)
    I use CC64 extensively, usually with all events being non-zero.
     
    Can't recall a single problem with this

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #5
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
    Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2819
    • Joined: 2011/02/03 04:31:35
    • Location: Sound-Rehab, Austria
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/02 06:45:25 (permalink)
    williamcopper
    It might be something else.    The lockups have happened during long work sessions with a large number of starts, stops, changes of Now times.    But only in (I believe --- like any unexpected problem I didn't keep track until it happened) small projects (chorus and piano, all midi) with sustain pedal for three piano tracks.  
     
    Always on 'play', not during entering the values.   And not at the beginning of play necessarily.    Also, painfully, caused audio noise, my least favorite thing for my tired ears.   Also I very rarely change anything while a project is playing .. exception might be some tempo drawing, but this particular project had a stable tempo that I did not change. 




    I wouldn't expect any single MIDI event to cause something like this (especially since you are suspecting non 0 values and why should a particulr CC be any different to others, they are all just numbers send to a channel) ... there's most likely something else going on (buffer filling up after long sessions, MIDI loop???) or even more likely something happening to your audio interface (as you also report audio noise) ...

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
      +++   Visit the Rehab   +++
     
    DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600
    Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture)   Control-Surface: VS-700C 
    VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really) 
    #6
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/03 06:57:27 (permalink)
    I accidentally left in a CC64= 3 recently; got the freeze again.     I'm getting more and more sure it's something to do with the audio engine trying to sustain notes according to a CC64 value. 
     
    This happens after an hour or so of work, with many starts and stops, so it is not the kind of thing that happens immediately.   The CPU at 100% can not be stopped -- you have to exit Sonar.  
     
    Possible additional factors:  3 midi tracks going to 3 different Kontakt channels, CC64 values different in the three tracks, but the 3 Kontakt channels all going to the same single output track.    Midi lookback preference enabled; zero controllers on stop disabled.
     
    The latest freeze happened not during playback, but when I dragged a note (in the track with a CC64 = 3) to a new pitch in the PRV.  (edit)  Opening the same project, dragging the same pitch -- I can hear that the sustain pedal effect is ON, though it should not be.    Is there any kind of lookback during the sounding of a note during note entry or modification?   
     
    post edited by williamcopper - 2016/01/03 07:21:29
    #7
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/03 07:20:18 (permalink)
    More details, same project:   during complete playback just now, I watched the CPU meter in Performance Module get higher and higher -- when playback got to the point where I added CC64 = 0 suddently the CPU meter moved back to its normal nearly zero position.  
     
    On the next playback, the CPU meter began and remained at the normal very low level.    Definitely related to CC64, imo.
     
    #8
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
    Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2819
    • Joined: 2011/02/03 04:31:35
    • Location: Sound-Rehab, Austria
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/03 08:30:30 (permalink)
    I actually had something similar last night: 2 lock ups / crashes when recording piano as MIDI track while working the sustain pedal heavily.
     
    Have not seen that before, but it happend twice on the same project within a short time. So I take back what I said earlier - the crashes were definitely while recording MIDI @ low ASIO buffer settings and high audio track count / relatively high load (but that's what I have always done before).

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
      +++   Visit the Rehab   +++
     
    DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600
    Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture)   Control-Surface: VS-700C 
    VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really) 
    #9
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/21 23:24:47 (permalink)
    Definitely a bug, it's happening repeatedly.      Using "reset controller to zero on stop" in preferences does seem to eliminate the problem, but I don't like that option because it then makes other controllers zero out, so that restart in the middle of a project becomes prone to wrong sounds.  
    #10
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/21 23:49:57 (permalink)
    As a test I eliminated all CC64 control messages except one -- left that one at value 10.    Unchecked "reset controllers to Zero".    With a few stops and starts, I could see the CPU begin to rise in the Performance Module.   Changed it to value 0, CPU went back to effectively 0.    
    #11
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/22 00:30:26 (permalink)
    Depending on the synth, if you play a bunch of notes with non-zero sustain, it can cause CPU usage to build up because a new voice is used for every sustaining note. This is especially true of physical modeling synths like Pianotek, but you're using Kontakt, right? Can you replicate the problem with a different synth?

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #12
    williamcopper
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1120
    • Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
    • Location: Virginia, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/22 01:03:53 (permalink)
    Maybe it is the Kontakt instrument.   I had thought it was a standard that CC64 less than 63 is equivalent to 0.
     
    From another forum: 
    "Cubase has a MIDI CC mapper/filter built in.

    Are you using a pedal or a switch? CC64 should only have 2 values - ≤63 off, ≥64 on, which is a switch's job."
     
    #13
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sustain Pedal Midi CC 64 at low value not 0 -- crashes? 2016/01/22 01:36:18 (permalink)
    More advanced continuous pedals and keyboards are capable of generating all values of CC64, and properly programmed synths can respond to "half-pedaling" with variable damping like a real piano. Most synths are only capable of full sustain or no sustain, so they are programmed to treat anything less than 64 as OFF, and anything >= 64 as ON. This is a function of the synth programming, not the sequencer or the keyboard.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1