Helpful ReplyIs it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now?

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RSMCGUITAR
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2015/12/30 19:58:53 (permalink)
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Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now?

So a year of Sonar is available in the Cakewalk store at a discounted price. I want to buy it (it's the last day of the sale) but I'm wondering if I should wait and see what is offered in January (when most early adopters memberships will be up.) I was really hoping to have some news about this from Cakewalk.

Basically, I'm wondering if it would be something I later regretted buying because another offer is right around the corner...
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BobF
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/30 20:56:49 (permalink)
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I'm holding out for some sweetener ...
 


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Anderton
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/30 21:13:44 (permalink)
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If you like what happened last year, you'll like what happens next year.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/30 21:22:54 (permalink)
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Oh I'm buying in for sure. Just wondering if I should wait longer
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Jesse G
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/30 22:19:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/12/30 22:41:33
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I'd wait until the new year, I believe the Bakers will have a new years special on Sonar and some other software.
 
Just saying...

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ampfixer
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/30 22:30:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/12/30 23:08:22
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It seems to me that Cakewalk has to address this issue with some sort of policy. This is the end of the first cycle and many of us will be doing this annually. They should have something official very soon because if renewal is something we have to chase after then they might lose business. It should be a letter basically saying "will you be joining us again this year?", "If so, click here, if not, please take a moment to share your reasons".
 
If I renew every year, I don't want to pay the same as somebody upgrading for the first time. Customer loyalty would be enhanced if renewal without interruption was cheaper than renewing after a lapse in membership. I'm sure the bakers will be/have been, discussing this. It's a new phase in their business development.

Regards, John 
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Mesh
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 09:03:34 (permalink)
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ampfixer
It seems to me that Cakewalk has to address this issue with some sort of policy. This is the end of the first cycle and many of us will be doing this annually. They should have something official very soon because if renewal is something we have to chase after then they might lose business. It should be a letter basically saying "will you be joining us again this year?", "If so, click here, if not, please take a moment to share your reasons".
 
If I renew every year, I don't want to pay the same as somebody upgrading for the first time. Customer loyalty would be enhanced if renewal without interruption was cheaper than renewing after a lapse in membership. I'm sure the bakers will be/have been, discussing this. It's a new phase in their business development.


+1 John and my thoughts as well......I've been a loyal customer since Sonar 3 (even had Cakewalk Pro Audio before that) and I'm very happy with SPLAT's working progress/business model.....I'd also like to see something setup for us loyal customers.

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mettelus
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 09:32:14 (permalink)
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+1 to John's comment as well. It is kind of insulting to have loyal customers in the same bucket as everyone else. The initial model basically stated $149 upgrade then $199 each year after (Platinum), so unless that gets revamped the "deal" goes to upgraders who may not even be loyal customers at all.

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Anderton
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 10:23:56 (permalink)
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I am not privy to any discussions but I can see it both ways. Those who have upgraded regularly have continuous access to new features and are the first to get them. If I had waited a year to get Mix Recall, Vocal Sync, Drum Replacer, etc. it would have impacted my creativity and time spent on projects. OTOH "disloyal" customers may have reasons for having to skip for a while, like losing a job, illness in the family, whatever. You don't want to punish those people for reasons beyond their control, and of course, they had to do without the new features, optimizations, and fixes during that time.
 
I had originally suggested that content be available only in "real time" - if you sat out for six months, although upon resuming you received the program updates, you got none of the content. I thought that would be a good way to reward those who keep up with the program. Content has taken a bit of a back seat the past few months because of the concentration on optimizations, but I have quite a bit "in the can" that will hopefully appear in the months to come.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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jpetersen
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 10:41:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mitch_I 2015/12/31 11:52:19
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F.W.I.W, I just looked at the competition (Cubase, ProTools, Logic etc.)
Cake's pricings are very fair.
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bitman
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 11:13:19 (permalink)
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I did, so yes, it's nuts.
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MelodicJimmy
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 13:18:57 (permalink)
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Loyal customers? We're already getting an amazing piece of software for under $200. What do you want it, for free?

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kitekrazy1
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 13:33:19 (permalink)
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Anderton
I am not privy to any discussions but I can see it both ways. Those who have upgraded regularly have continuous access to new features and are the first to get them. If I had waited a year to get Mix Recall, Vocal Sync, Drum Replacer, etc. it would have impacted my creativity and time spent on projects. OTOH "disloyal" customers may have reasons for having to skip for a while, like losing a job, illness in the family, whatever. You don't want to punish those people for reasons beyond their control, and of course, they had to do without the new features, optimizations, and fixes during that time.
 
I had originally suggested that content be available only in "real time" - if you sat out for six months, although upon resuming you received the program updates, you got none of the content. I thought that would be a good way to reward those who keep up with the program. Content has taken a bit of a back seat the past few months because of the concentration on optimizations, but I have quite a bit "in the can" that will hopefully appear in the months to come.




 That's like a punishment.  Updating most versions of Sonar never had something removed unless it was a 3rd party extension.  Basically someone who upgraded from Sonar 5 to 7 wasn't denied features because they skipped 6. 
  There is always an entitlement attitude when it comes to spending money.  There was confusion and unhappiness brought by the ignorance that was labeled a subscription model.  There is no shortage of competition in the DAW market.  I think the above idea would create more resentment.
 
 I don't get the "loyal vs. everyone else".   Upgrade pricing is the "loyal" part.  When there is a new release everyone complains about the upgrade price on every DAW except Reaper or Tracktion.  I think it's great the other developers allow vendors to offer deals on upgrade pricing. I don't think I've ever paid over $150 for a DAW upgrade.  Basically loyalty is close to paying 30% of the retail price on most DAWs. 
 

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Anderton
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 13:43:59 (permalink)
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kitekrazy1
Anderton
I had originally suggested that content be available only in "real time" - if you sat out for six months, although upon resuming you received the program updates, you got none of the content. I thought that would be a good way to reward those who keep up with the program. Content has taken a bit of a back seat the past few months because of the concentration on optimizations, but I have quite a bit "in the can" that will hopefully appear in the months to come.



 That's like a punishment.  Updating most versions of Sonar never had something removed unless it was a 3rd party extension.

 
But that's exactly what the content is. With the exception of a few things Dan Gonzalez did, it's not created by the people at Cakewalk, and some of it has been 3rd party where those involved didn't want it given away in perpetuity. It would GREATLY simplify getting content from 3rd parties if its availability was restricted. The only reason why we were able to get Brian Hardgroove's Bass Loop library, which is a commercial product, free to members was because it was offered for only that one month.
 
OTOH content I created specifically for the program would be a different story. For example the CA-X amps are considered part of the program, as are the FX Chains. Ditto Dan's templates.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 16:58:04 (permalink)
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The whole concept of "upgrade" may need to be re-thought. Presently the only upgrades would be from the immediate prior version (X3 appears to be the only thing that qualifies as a prior version now) traditionally set at the lowest tier price and  previous versions or any Cakewalk product at different price tiers. At some point X3 may no longer be treated as the cheap "upgrade" product, but just fall into the previous owner discount tier. The new membership model seems to lend itself to the concept of a "renewal" rather than an upgrade. Like magazine subscription renewals that price could vary depending on how Cakewalk wants to drive sales, with a lower price for loyal customers or if sales are lagging. How long a user can let a membership lapse before a new subscription (or prepaid 12 month "ownership") is required has not been clearly stated. Current users would like a simple way of judging what their price (actually their loyalty discount) will be.
 
But the need for simple to administer policy is even more important if Cakewalk is planning to continue to use independent distributors. The distributors provide a valuable free and invisible sales force in that a clerk in a music store is unlikely to recommend a product that his store does not sell. For a distributor to sell a new prepaid membership requires nothing except a list of authorization codes, but if they are to sell "renewals" it needs to be clear what previous ownership status qualifies, or the distributor may find himself facing disgruntled customers who bought a product that Cakewalk will not authorize. Technically, a user who has bought only eleven consecutive months of a monthly membership has no Cakewalk "ownership" history at all, and if he has bought interrupted monthly periods even over several years he is in the same situation. It is pretty simple for Cakewalk to administer member records and make an on the spot determination of the discount eligibility at the Cakewalk Store, but it would be cumbersome for distributors to do so. 
 
 
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BobF
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 18:16:08 (permalink)
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slartabartfast
The whole concept of "upgrade" may need to be re-thought. Presently the only upgrades would be from the immediate prior version (X3 appears to be the only thing that qualifies as a prior version now) traditionally set at the lowest tier price and  previous versions or any Cakewalk product at different price tiers. At some point X3 may no longer be treated as the cheap "upgrade" product, but just fall into the previous owner discount tier. The new membership model seems to lend itself to the concept of a "renewal" rather than an upgrade. Like magazine subscription renewals that price could vary depending on how Cakewalk wants to drive sales, with a lower price for loyal customers or if sales are lagging. How long a user can let a membership lapse before a new subscription (or prepaid 12 month "ownership") is required has not been clearly stated. Current users would like a simple way of judging what their price (actually their loyalty discount) will be.
 
But the need for simple to administer policy is even more important if Cakewalk is planning to continue to use independent distributors. The distributors provide a valuable free and invisible sales force in that a clerk in a music store is unlikely to recommend a product that his store does not sell. For a distributor to sell a new prepaid membership requires nothing except a list of authorization codes, but if they are to sell "renewals" it needs to be clear what previous ownership status qualifies, or the distributor may find himself facing disgruntled customers who bought a product that Cakewalk will not authorize. Technically, a user who has bought only eleven consecutive months of a monthly membership has no Cakewalk "ownership" history at all, and if he has bought interrupted monthly periods even over several years he is in the same situation. It is pretty simple for Cakewalk to administer member records and make an on the spot determination of the discount eligibility at the Cakewalk Store, but it would be cumbersome for distributors to do so. 



Great point about "upgrade" no longer having the same meaning.  This is even more obvious when you consider the fact the people can start their 12 any time during the year.  Eventually, January will lose it's significance as renewal times are spread throughout the year.
 
 
 

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Jimbo 88
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 20:08:24 (permalink)
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Here is the thing....i really don't care if someone who did not upgrade gets this or that after i paid $X amount at such and such time.....
 
All I care about is when will I get the best deal for me...so the question begs,  "Am I nuts to buy my yearly update now?"
 
yea or nay?
 
I needs to know 'cause I too, must decided as the OP stated
 

 

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jpetersen
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 20:29:31 (permalink)
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I also get mad if I hit the Purchase button at the wrong time.
But I figure the money I might save would probably cover the price of my next music magazines.
 
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 20:52:31 (permalink)
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BobF
 
 
Great point about "upgrade" no longer having the same meaning.  This is even more obvious when you consider the fact the people can start their 12 any time during the year.  Eventually, January will lose it's significance as renewal times are spread throughout the year.
 
 
 




I don't know who would think that.  Every subscription type service doesn't roll that way.  It's significant if a person doesn't renew at all.
 
It should be marketed as a membership instead of an upgrade.
 
 

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BobF
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 20:58:42 (permalink)
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It is marketed both ways.  It's an upgrade to some folks, a renewal to others.  Please read the whole thread. 

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Anderton
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 21:45:35 (permalink)
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kitekrazy1
BobF
Great point about "upgrade" no longer having the same meaning.  This is even more obvious when you consider the fact the people can start their 12 any time during the year.  Eventually, January will lose it's significance as renewal times are spread throughout the year.
 

I don't know who would think that.  Every subscription type service doesn't roll that way. 

 
Magazines, Adobe, Avid...there's no "open enrollment" period. If you want to subscribe to Pro Tools in February, I guarantee Avid won't say "Sorry, you had to subscribe in January, we refuse to take your money." Ditto Adobe.
 

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ampfixer
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2015/12/31 22:05:29 (permalink)
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Bottom line is Cakewalk will have to produce a system for subscription renewal and communicate it. It doesn't make sense for me to do anything until I see it. I'm confident that it will be fairly managed.
 
Happy New Year Forumites!

Regards, John 
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#22
stickman393
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 00:01:07 (permalink)
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I seriously expected that the change to monthly/annual membership fee and monthly updates would make this whole argument about "should I take advantage of the sale price now or will I be screwed out of some perceived better deal on the next version" completely moot.
 
I guess I was wrong.
 
No matter what Cakewalk does with respect to sales, they'll be folks complaining about it.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 09:37:57 (permalink)
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stickman393
I seriously expected that the change to monthly/annual membership fee and monthly updates would make this whole argument about "should I take advantage of the sale price now or will I be screwed out of some perceived better deal on the next version" completely moot.
 
I guess I was wrong.
 
No matter what Cakewalk does with respect to sales, they'll be folks complaining about it.




 I would hope they will have a annual membership package at the store and vendors.  Maybe they will have them sold at local gift card kiosks.  Hulu, Netflix, and certain game platforms sell memberships.
 I'm holding off on my membership.  I use other DAWs and I need to become more advanced in Sonar. It's also a financial choice. 2014 BF and Xmas sales put me more in debt. While I like this model Cakewalk adopted and they have done it well I probably wouldn't trust other developers doing this. 

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#24
gbowling
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 14:31:02 (permalink)
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So is your subscription a year from when you purchase it or a calendar year? 
 
Likewise if you renew for a year, does it extend your current subscription or is it a year from when you renew? 
 
For example. If your subscription runs out in April, but you purchase in Feb... Does your new subscription run a year from april or a year from feb? Or is it just a calendar year, say 2016, no matter when during the year you renew?
 
thanks, gabo

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#25
declan
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 16:32:39 (permalink)
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What's "in the pipeline" isn't much of a selling point for me.  I need to know more before I'll consider "upgrading" this time - and that's after a great, great year from Sonar.
 
If I renew this "non-really" subscription, I want a more immediate bigger bang for the buck that we've been spoiled by monthly over the course of last year
 
I'm sure we'll hear more soon, but I'm going to wait until after NAMM to really think about it. 
 
But CW will get money from me until I die, and with great appreciation. 
 
 
 
  
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CANNIMAGINE
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 20:40:52 (permalink)
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Those of us that have been using Cakewalk products for years should be rewarded with discounts and incentives. Sometimes companies forget to take care of the people who made them what they are. I have paid for several versions over the years and it would be nice to know loyalty is appreciated.
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Geo524
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/01 21:13:59 (permalink)
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For the first time in many years I am not going to be an early adopter. I love Sonar and this past year has been great but I'm going to wait it out this time around.

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Paul P
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/02 00:13:28 (permalink)
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BobF
Great point about "upgrade" no longer having the same meaning.  This is even more obvious when you consider the fact the people can start their 12 any time during the year.  Eventually, January will lose it's significance as renewal times are spread throughout the year.



I think January lost its significance back in February.  The only thing that can be used towards defining a loyal upgrader with the new system is someone who's at the end of a 12 month block.  A renewal.  And I don't see much difference in loyalty between someone who upgraded in January and someone who upgraded in March.  We used to have one to two years to upgrade and still be considered loyal (though near the end of that period you'd look more cheap than loyal).
 
So if there's any deal for loyal renewers, it'll start in January, but it'll have to continue for a while, if not forever.  The original 200$/year looks pretty improbable to me, judging from the last year.
 
post edited by Paul P - 2016/01/02 11:25:57

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#29
Anderton
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Re: Is it nuts to purchase my yearly Sonar now? 2016/01/02 01:22:11 (permalink)
0
CANNIMAGINE
Those of us that have been using Cakewalk products for years should be rewarded with discounts and incentives.



So what would that look like? Where would the division lines fall...if someone used SONAR 5, 6, and 7, then dropped out, and now wants a discount on Platinum, is that person more "loyal" that someone who started with X2, upgraded to X3, and signed up for a membership the month it appeared? But if he'd waited six months before signing up for the membership, would he be "disloyal?" Would Kitekrazy consider that "punishing" users who almost, but didn't quite, fit the criteria?
 
Cakewalk has traditionally offered incentives and discounts for existing users to upgrade. It's up to the individual user to take advantage of them or not when they're offered.
 
 

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