kakku
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Soundcloud copies
(Sorry that I put this thread again, but I did not find my first one and wanted to talk about it.) I was so bored that I started looking again IF there was any sites that offer to anybody the songs or tunes that I have made and put to Soundcloud(and I checked there was also others' works from this forum). Sure there was. Also download is enabled even though I have forbidden it in the Soundcloud settings. There are a lot more than just my tunes in these places. Makes me a bit curious why people would choose to go there and not to the official place, Soundcloud(download possibility enabled even if forbidden in Soundcloud can be one reason). Also I am curious is it illegal (probably is)and if so can I or anybody stop that nastiness. Can we just email Soundcloud to tell them to stop it. Are there any business models for this probably illegal action. I saw no ads with my phone. Finally if no business model, why do the Soundcloud copiers do it? Also, please add good questions and answers to this thread if you can. Almost put the links, but remembered not allowed to put piracy links. Lucky me.
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/05 13:39:40
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bapu
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:15:12
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:27:47
Oh no. Some juan stole something on the internet?  End of days is near I fear.
post edited by bapu - 2016/01/05 14:27:53
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:20:30
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bapu
Oh no. Some juan stole something on the internet?
End of days is near I fear.
Not as long as you are protecting us from those juans. I just wanna tell you: good luck. We're all counting on you!
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/05 14:36:29
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jamesg1213
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:24:34
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:01
I've Googled and Bing'd all the songs we have on Soundcloud, and I don't see them anywhere else.
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:27:26
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Well, maybe this was not a great idea. Somebody can delete this thread as I have doubts it will not be half as interesting I thought.
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:30:09
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jamesg1213
I've Googled and Bing'd all the songs we have on Soundcloud, and I don't see them anywhere else.
Well my songs can be found and so can slumber's and wookie's at least. Maybe they don't have as much storage as Soundcloud so they don't put everything on their servers. Edit:I meant slumbermachine
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/05 14:47:48
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:46:23
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Sorry I made a mistake.
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/05 15:18:44
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Wookiee
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:46:53
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:15
kakku
jamesg1213
I've Googled and Bing'd all the songs we have on Soundcloud, and I don't see them anywhere else.
Well my songs can be found and so can slumber's and wookie's at least. Maybe they don't have as much storage as Soundcloud so they don't put everything on their servers.
Edit:I meant slumbermachine
Interesting Kakku can you PM me with links?
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 14:55:57
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slartabartfast
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 16:18:28
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:23
I would like to sympathize, but I have no idea what is being discussed here. Is the issue that songs posted to SoundCloud are being pirated to another site without the owner's permission? Soundcloud can do nothing to stop your posts from being ripped off. Remember that if anyone can hear something posted on the internet he can copy it at pretty much the same fidelity/resolution with minimal effort, so anything that you release to anyone in any format that anyone can listen to can be stolen by anyone. If the thief is beyond the jurisdiction of your country, or another country that has signed copyright agreements to cover your citizens, then you probably can do little except complain to the site where you see it posted. If you register your copyright in the US, then it falls under the Millenium Copyright Act, but there is no guarantee you will get any effective action from the US government if the pirate site ignores your takedown notice under that act. And if you decide to pursue legal action in a US court, there is no guarantee that any judgement you win will be honored in a foreign jurisdication.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/01/05 16:34:11
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 16:20:24
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slartabartfast
I would like to sympathize, but I have no idea what is being discussed here. Is the issue that songs posted to SoundCloud are being pirated to another site without the owner's permission? Soundcloud can do nothing to stop your posts from being ripped off. Remember that if anyone can hear something posted on the internet he can copy it at pretty much the same fidelity/resolution with minimal effort, so anything that you release to anyone in any format that anyone can listen to can be stolen by anyone. If the thief is beyond the jurisdiction of your country, or another country that has signed copyright agreements to cover your citizens, then you probably can do little except complain to the site where you see it posted.
Well you are right. Copying cannot be stopped. Although, some do not know the way how to copy music so in those cases stopping piracy site from working helps. Also there is the principle. Even though much cannot be done, it is worth doing because it is the right thing to do. In theory at least.
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/05 16:38:28
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Beepster
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 16:55:03
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:34
I've noticed a bunch of my stuff being listed on weird Russian and South American sites. It doesn't look like anyone gives a f*ck about them (as far as I can tell no one has listened to them) but it is weird that someone, somewhere went out of their way to post them. Whatevs. They want to do some free marketing for me... good on 'em.
Could just be crawler bots though.
Meh.
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 17:09:39
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Beepster
I've noticed a bunch of my stuff being listed on weird Russian and South American sites. It doesn't look like anyone gives a f*ck about them (as far as I can tell no one has listened to them) but it is weird that someone, somewhere went out of their way to post them. Whatevs. They want to do some free marketing for me... good on 'em.
Could just be crawler bots though.
Meh.
Well it can BE seen as free advertising. It is true that it can spread news about talented people. My thread feels less useful after each post:D.
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Beepster
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/05 17:48:10
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:48
Well it's not cool for these sites to do that but it's not like I'm losing any money anyway.
Honestly I think my brand of wackiness would probably be more popular in foreign countries and I'm an old punk who doesn't REALLY get concerned about the fiddle faddle of hardcore copyright. It would just be nice if someone asked permission first. However aside from this forum it's not like I've made it easy to get a hold of me (yet).
I would like to actually learn more about the Creative Commons concept. That seems like it would be a little more my speed. Old school copyright is for the "elite" artists who have been deemed worthy by the industry that no one really cares about these days anyway (except the hounds who profit obscenely from it).
I've been toying around with the idea of maybe going all Radiohead on sh*z and letting the world download my crap on a "pay what you want" basis. Essentially it'd be there for the taking and if people wanted to drop a nickel in the bucket... great.
I used to be a busker for years so it's almost like busking on the intertubes. Kind of poetic in a way.
Of course I'd actually have to have material to release to make that happen. That's a little slow going.
lulzity
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slartabartfast
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 04:24:55
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/06 11:28:56
The Creative Commons concept is about solving the problem of how you can give away your intellectual property. It turns out that in most of the developed world you will automatically acquire a copyright to a creative work as soon as it is rendered in a physical form like a recording or manuscript. The copyright includes all of the rights to exploit or copy that work in a variety of forms and versions and uses. That copyright is very sticky, so that it clings to the work for a very long time and prevents anyone from legally making a copy of it without your permission in the form of a license to copy or perform or adapt or synchronize with video etc. That license can be an informal oral agreement, a complicated contract, or in some cases possibly an implicit understanding depending on how you distribute it, but without obtaining that permission no one can use or exploit the work in a variety of ways without infringing your right. So if you want everyone to be able to use your copyright without paying for it or getting your permission every time, i. e. if you want to give it away, you need a mechanism that will license everyone to do so. That is what a Creative Commons license is. There are a variety of different license documents available that allow you to give away certain rights for certain purposes and with certain requirements. So if for example you want to let people make and distribute copies, but you want them to tell the people they give them to that you wrote it, you can find a license that allows them to make copies only if they acknowledge the author. Then you affix the name and symbol of the license to copies to let them know what license they are required to agree to and prove that they have a license and are not infringing your right. The one point to be aware of is that, of the ones I have seen at least, the licenses are irrevocable and perpetual, as one would expect in a device that is designed to make a gift to the general public. Once you have licensed the work using one of these vehicles, you cannot take it back. So long as the user follows the terms of the license you originally granted, he can copy or adapt your work so long as his use stays within that license. The license will survive your death, and will prevent you from selling the same right to anyone else exclusively. So a publisher who wants your copyright assigned to him or a record company that wants you to sell it an exclusive contract to distribute a recording that has already been licensed via CC will not be able to obtain what they want. https://creativecommons.org/about/cc0/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/
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sharke
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 11:52:08
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:14:35
If you put anything on the internet it will be copied and redistributed. I remember years ago putting some guitar tabs that I'd done up on Usenet, within about 2 weeks they were on every major tab site on the net without me having to do anything.
A while ago I had a case of someone in England copying virtually my entire business website. He stole all the photos, recolored some of the vector art I'd done and reproduced entire bodies of text. Out of curiosity I did searches for random pieces of text from my website and found sites all over the world that have blatantly stolen my content word for word. I even found a site that had it translated into French. I think you have to realize that when something goes online it's effectively public domain - if not legally, then people just assume it is anyway.
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bitflipper
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 12:28:57
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:14:22
The name of the game these days for monetizing the internet is advertising. You can get paid for page views, so the trick is to sucker as many people as possible to your website. YouTube has become the #1 platform for this, but there are literally millions of pages out there that serve no function whatsoever except to display ads.
In order to attract eyeballs to your ads, you need content. So these guys grab whatever content they can find. That might be music, videos, pornography, political rants, religious rants, humor, poetry, news items, warez, video games, doesn't matter. They don't care, as long as it makes them show up in google searches.
None of it is original content. They don't care if it's useful or even accurate information. As long as they didn't have to create the content themselves, and enough viewers are tricked into loading their pages so they can collect money from their advertisers. So yes, if you offer music for download there's a chance it may also get caught in their dragnet.
But who cares? Sure, they're making money from content you own. But if you're not trying to monetize your own music anyway, then it's not money out of your pocket.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 13:00:43
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But why people go to these Soundcloud copy places when there is available the real deal?
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 13:35:13
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I think this is the placewhere people from Soundcloud talked about this kind of activity. I noticed this was a bad idea as there was talk about piracy site URLs and it is forbidden. Also the earlier URL was the wrong one.
post edited by kakku - 2016/01/06 13:53:11
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bitflipper
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 14:16:22
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:13:48
Because people are lazy and overdependent on search engines to find stuff. They don't stop to question whether the URL is legit, is the official site, or even if it's a scam.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 14:18:04
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bitflipper
Because people are lazy and overdependent on search engines to find stuff. They don't stop to question whether the URL is legit, is the official site, or even if it's a scam.
Those are probably some of the reasons.
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craigb
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 22:03:53
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:13:38
If you put anything on the internet it will be copied and redistributed. I remember years ago putting some guitar tabs that I'd done up on Usenet, within about 2 weeks they were on every major tab site on the net without me having to do anything.
A while ago I had a case of someone in England copying virtually my entire business website. He stole all the photos, recolored some of the vector art I'd done and reproduced entire bodies of text. Out of curiosity I did searches for random pieces of text from my website and found sites all over the world that have blatantly stolen my content word for word. I even found a site that had it translated into French. I think you have to realize that when something goes online it's effectively public domain - if not legally, then people just assume it is anyway.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/06 22:04:12
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:13:28
(Sorry Sharke, couldn't resist!  )
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 00:27:47
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:13:17
craigb
(Sorry Sharke, couldn't resist! )
You owe me $0.000000007 in royalties for that "stream" 
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craigb
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 01:03:18
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:13:09
sharke
craigb
(Sorry Sharke, couldn't resist! )
You owe me $0.000000007 in royalties for that "stream"
Will you take a Czech?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 01:37:36
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:12:59
craigb
sharke
craigb
(Sorry Sharke, couldn't resist! )
You owe me $0.000000007 in royalties for that "stream"
Will you take a Czech?
Yes but please remember to date it Monkey. I'll be very annoyed if I get to the bank and see that you've written Goat on it.
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craigb
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 04:47:57
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☄ Helpfulby kakku 2016/01/07 14:12:49
 Oops...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 12:19:50
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☼ Best Answerby kakku 2016/01/07 14:12:27
kakku
(Sorry that I put this thread again, but I did not find my first one and wanted to talk about it.)
I was so bored that I started looking again IF there was any sites that offer to anybody the songs or tunes that I have made and put to Soundcloud(and I checked there was also others' works from this forum).
Sure there was. Also download is enabled even though I have forbidden it in the Soundcloud settings. There are a lot more than just my tunes in these places.
Makes me a bit curious why people would choose to go there and not to the official place, Soundcloud(download possibility enabled even if forbidden in Soundcloud can be one reason).
Also I am curious is it illegal (probably is)and if so can I or anybody stop that nastiness. Can we just email Soundcloud to tell them to stop it.
Are there any business models for this probably illegal action. I saw no ads with my phone.
Finally if no business model, why do the Soundcloud copiers do it?
Also, please add good questions and answers to this thread if you can.
Almost put the links, but remembered not allowed to put piracy links. Lucky me.
An easy way to find your previous thread (one you started) is to go to your user page (click your screen name at the top of the page) and look at your recent threads list. The easy way to bump your existing thread is to just add a new reply with the new questions. If your tracks permissions are set to not allow downloads, and anyone else can download the track that sound like a glitch you could alert SoundCloud to. I am not a user so maybe someone else here can guide you on where and how to make that setting stick. It is possible that SoundCloud will let the owner of the account download his stuff regardless of the settings forbidding others to do so. As to the business model for a pirate site with no advertising, the first that comes to mind is to lure browsers to infected websites to load malware. There is also a large group of people who believe that music should be free, and are happy to help to free it. The massive MP3 peer to peer sharing craze that killed the CD was not making most of the participants any money. I suspect there are some people out there who may think a cheap internet site with their favorite tunes is the ultimate "mix tape," and that the world is their girlfriend. Yes, distributing copies of an author's work without a license is illegal. On a rare occasion the authorities will interdict large shipments of entertainment DVD's or software and press criminal charges, but unless you have the political clout of Microsoft or Sony, you are effectively out of luck. The internet is almost impossible to police, because of jurisdictional problems, US authorities cannot make arrests or seizures in Ukraine. There have been a few coordinated seizures of physical websites, and some blocking of websites by technical means, but these are rare and used again primarily to protect the powerful. An individual is usually limited to threatening a lawsuit, if he can find a venue to host it and a place and person to serve the papers, and the cost of doing a lawsuit is prohibitive in almost all cases of infringement.
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kakku
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Re: Soundcloud copies
2016/01/07 12:23:54
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slartabartfast
kakku
(Sorry that I put this thread again, but I did not find my first one and wanted to talk about it.)
I was so bored that I started looking again IF there was any sites that offer to anybody the songs or tunes that I have made and put to Soundcloud(and I checked there was also others' works from this forum).
Sure there was. Also download is enabled even though I have forbidden it in the Soundcloud settings. There are a lot more than just my tunes in these places.
Makes me a bit curious why people would choose to go there and not to the official place, Soundcloud(download possibility enabled even if forbidden in Soundcloud can be one reason).
Also I am curious is it illegal (probably is)and if so can I or anybody stop that nastiness. Can we just email Soundcloud to tell them to stop it.
Are there any business models for this probably illegal action. I saw no ads with my phone.
Finally if no business model, why do the Soundcloud copiers do it?
Also, please add good questions and answers to this thread if you can.
Almost put the links, but remembered not allowed to put piracy links. Lucky me.
An easy way to find your previous thread (one you started) is to go to your user page (click your screen name at the top of the page) and look at your recent threads list. The easy way to bump your existing thread is to just add a new reply with the new questions.
If your tracks permissions are set to not allow downloads, and anyone else can download the track that sound like a glitch you could alert SoundCloud to. I am not a user so maybe someone else here can guide you on where and how to make that setting stick. It is possible that SoundCloud will let the owner of the account download his stuff regardless of the settings forbidding others to do so.
As to the business model for a pirate site with no advertising, the first that comes to mind is to lure browsers to infected websites to load malware. There is also a large group of people who believe that music should be free, and are happy to help to free it. The massive MP3 peer to peer sharing craze that killed the CD was not making most of the participants any money. I suspect there are some people out there who may think a cheap internet site with their favorite tunes is the ultimate "mix tape," and that the world is their girlfriend.
Yes, distributing copies of an author's work without a license is illegal. On a rare occasion the authorities will interdict large shipments of entertainment DVD's or software and press criminal charges, but unless you have the political clout of Microsoft or Sony, you are effectively out of luck. The internet is almost impossible to police, because of jurisdictional problems, US authorities cannot make arrests or seizures in Ukraine. There have been a few coordinated seizures of physical websites, and some blocking of websites by technical means, but these are rare and used again primarily to protect the powerful. An individual is usually limited to threatening a lawsuit, if he can find a venue to host it and a place and person to serve the papers, and the cost of doing a lawsuit is prohibitive in almost all cases of infringement.
Thanks for a really good answer.
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