AnsweredLosing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export

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dr oldskool
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2016/01/08 19:39:18 (permalink)

Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export

Old cakewalk user, moved to cubase and now back to cakewalk.   Utterly baffled on one thing though...
 
I can't get a bit of vocals I've recorded to show up when I export!
 
So I'm laying vocals on a track and have several tracks of audio for various choruses, verses, harmonies etc
 
I've used comping on a lot of those
 
I've bounced to clips, added effects, chopped, normalise,d changed gain etc etc etc and all is good
 
I redid some parts of sentences where I'm a  bit out of tune (rusty) and again all good
 
Then when I go to export it, it plays fine, no problem.  On my computer that is.  Then when I listen to it on a computer with only one (mono) speaker it plays everything 100% fine, except for the second half of the second verse which is a bit I re-recorded.
 
Again when I play on my phone or transmit from my phone to a BT device it does the same thing. 
 
It plays ok on my computer though which is stereo.
 
I can see there's wavs in both left and right on sonar.  When I pan it plays on both left and right. 
 
When I export to mp3 it plays on my computer fine, left and right.
 
But when I listen to the same track on a mono device it just doesn't play that bit.
 
Even more strangely when I convert that clip (which I bounced from one half old recording and one half the new recording) to mono, it only shows up the first original half and the second half flatlines.   When I convert it back to stereo it's there, and it plays fine... just not when I try to listen to it on a device that has just a mono speaker.
 
Again, if I try to export just that one clip as a mono it will only play the first half.
 
Basically for absolutely no reason I can think of (and whilst I've not recorded for 10 years or so I definitely used to record all the time) this one pesky bit of audio, even though it is in audio and plays on my stereo system just is a little bit strange!!
 
ANy ideas please???
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    PeterMc
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:19:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:46
    Perhaps the left and right channels of the offending clip are identical but out of phase. They would cancel when played in mono, but be audible when panned. If you listen to just this clip in headphones, is it hard to locate the stereo image? Zoom in on the waveform and see if left and right channels look the opposite of each other.
     
    If this is what is happening, put the clip on a separate track, pan hard left (or right), and bounce to a mono track. Then pan that track to wherever you need to put the vocals in the stereo image.
     
    Cheers, Peter.
     

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    dr oldskool
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:21:40 (permalink)
    ok... possible breakthrough...
     
    this COULD be a phase issue.
     
    I notice that the stereo bits on that recorded piece are like mirror images of eachother but other recorded parts seem the same way up.
     
    I'm tried messing around with the "width" function from the RME totalmix.  Also tried pressing the pase button on my DMP3 preamp but none seem to help.
     
    IO'm sure it's somethign to do with this because as they'remiror images when tehy;re converted to mono they're probably completely cancelling eachother out...
     
    ANy ideas why it's happening or how I can fix it?  
     
    I'm up in the early hours tryign to figure it :(
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    PeterMc
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:27:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:40
    The phase button in Sonar will only help if you put this clip on a separate track - you only want to flip the phase of this clip. The phase button is in the track inspector (press I if it's not visible). Make sure the correct track is the current track (track name highlighted) and make sure none of Clip, Track or ProCh tabs are selected. The phase button looks like a O with a diagonal line through it.

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    PeterMc
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:28:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:38
    p.s. My previous suggestion of bouncing to a mono track is probably cleaner and less confusing when you come back to this project later, but either method should work.

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    dr oldskool
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:54:44 (permalink)
    Peter, thanks.
     
    But I'm utterly confused.
     
    The left and right bits of the clip look like mirror images.
     
    I have cut it out and put it on another track and found tghe pahse circle with teh line in it and click it but the phases is still opposite for left and right. 
     
    When I make any new recordings I see they're mirror images so clearly left and right are opposite phase.
     
    I've looked at the preamp and nothign there. I've looked at the totalmix software and nothign there.
     
    When I do "convert to mono" it flatlines suggesting the phases are cancellign out. 
     
    I *think* I might've recorded this clip when I found a connector that allowed me to record stereo from my mic (before this I was recording mono and then changing to stereo (so ended up identical phase). 
     
    I can't get it to flip just the phase of one of the bits, or better still to record identical phase to begin with... I don't want to be recording everythino in mono...  
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    dr oldskool
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 20:57:05 (permalink)
    I tried pannign hard left but there's no option to bounce to a mono track just to "convert to mono".  But when I do that it again just flatlines as the 180 phases cancel out presumably as you say
     
    Now my wife is shouting at me to get to bed :(
     
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    Paul P
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/08 21:32:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:33
    I once received a stereo track of a vocal part I had to learn and I set about mono'ing it to one side so I could hear myself in the other side of my headphones.  With both sides of the stereo track combined, it just about disappeared.  Looking at the waveforms, both sides were mirror image.  I contacted the authour thinking that he had a mic cable with wires crossed or something similar.  It turned out he'd used a widening function/plugin to make the original sound 'better'.  I know this can be acheived by playing with phase and here was an example.
     
    I mention this just in case you have wires crossed somewhere (did you use some other cable for the problem bit ?  maybe that 'connector' you mention ?) or used some plugin on it to widen or otherwise modifiy the clip.
     

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    PeterMc
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/09 01:54:03 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:13
    What was I thinking! Changing the phase on a stereo track changes both channels. So that won't work. Sorry. But this will (and I've tried it this time:)
     
    Put the offending clip in its own track, and make sure the interleave is stereo in the track inspector (it's the little button to the immediate left of the phase button - make sure it looks like two eyes and a mouth). Now bounce the track to two mono tracks (Tracks-> Bounce to Track(s)...), then in the Bounce to Track(s) page that comes up, make sure Source Category is Tracks, and Channel Format is Split Mono. Choose your track from the list of Source Tracks, and make sure any other tracks are not selected, then press OK. There should now be two new tracks, with waveforms that look identical but opposite in phase. One will be panned hard left, the other hard right. Since these tracks are identical, just use one and pan it wherever it needs to sit in the mix. Discard the other.
     
    Cheers, Peter.

    i5 6500, H170M, Intel HD 530, 16GB, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, Win 10 Pro (1803) (64 bit), Cakewalk by Bandlab

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/09 04:05:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:20
    I completely agree with Peter's suggestion above.
    In short, bounce to split mono, mute or delete one (AND the original stereo track), pan as required

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/09 08:33:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dr oldskool 2016/01/09 11:49:29
    I did not see any note on how you are routing the tracks. Does everything go through Master bus as recommended, and master is the source when you export?
    If so, switching the master to mono should reveal any phase issues, if such exist, shouldn't it?

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    dr oldskool
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/09 11:32:42 (permalink)
    Paul P
    I once received a stereo track of a vocal part I had to learn and I set about mono'ing it to one side so I could hear myself in the other side of my headphones.  With both sides of the stereo track combined, it just about disappeared.  Looking at the waveforms, both sides were mirror image.  I contacted the authour thinking that he had a mic cable with wires crossed or something similar.  It turned out he'd used a widening function/plugin to make the original sound 'better'.  I know this can be acheived by playing with phase and here was an example.
     
    I mention this just in case you have wires crossed somewhere (did you use some other cable for the problem bit ?  maybe that 'connector' you mention ?) or used some plugin on it to widen or otherwise modifiy the clip.
     




    No widening on it.
     
    Cable wise a Shure SM 7B is going into channel A of my DMP3 preamp.   There's a balanced jack connector out for channel A which I'm converting into 2 RCAs using a stereo large jack MALE --> small jack FEMALE converter.  Into that is going a stereo small jack FEMALE and is giving me two RCAs for left and right.  Each of those RCAs is going into one of the analogue unbalanced inputs in the RME soundcard (one is a red RCA the other is a white)
     
    Totalmix on the RME is picking this up as audio and is recording the left and right as opposite phases.  No matter how I set the "width" of the left and right channels into the totalmix software.  Whether it's -1, 0 or 1 I still have this problem.
     
    I don't see how it could be a connector problem as surely that should give the same thing. I don' tknow.  
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    dr oldskool
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    Re: Losing the will to live, audio clip not showing up in export 2016/01/09 11:40:40 (permalink)
    That worked thanks guys.
     
    And I've since realised I've been a bit of a fool to record a single microphone, single voice into stereo.
     
    It's just that one blank line and one line full of data looked odd. 
     
    I've since rerouted the input to mono and it shows up on both lines, the way I think it should be.
     
    Thank you VERY much everyone for your help :)
    post edited by dr oldskool - 2016/01/09 16:12:57
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