New Studio Monitors

Hi all.  Tax return season is upon us, and I think it's time for me to upgrade my studio monitors.  I'm currently using Alesis M1 Active MKII monitors, and while they're nice as a "starter" pair of monitors, I do find myself fighting with them a bit.  I have the ARC 2 system to compensate for the cheap monitors and a poor room, but that can only take me so far and I think upgrading my nearfield monitors should be my next step.
 
The room itself is less-than-ideal...pretty much the worst environment possible: a small, 10x10 bedroom with 8 foot ceilings.  I do have two GIK Acoustic bass traps in the front corners, and homemade acoustic panels on the side reflection points, as well as a cloud above my mixing position, so I've done what I can to treat the room.  I also have a pair of the Primacoustic isolation pads, which are sadly sitting on my desk because I don't have room for stands. :(
 
Given the limitations of my room, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to drop a few thousand bucks on a new pair of monitors, but I gotta think I can do better than what I've already got.
 
I'm intrigued by the Focal Alpha 50 monitors.  There aren't a ton of official reviews out there, but user reviews from Sweetwater, etc. have generally given high praise and the consensus seems to be that nothing else compares to these monitors in the $600/pair price range. 
 
I know Focal is a well-respected and popular manufacturer, so although the Alpha series is fairly new, I'm still a bit surprised that there doesn't seem to be an awful lot of info out there about them.
 
Any chance anyone here has the Alpha 50s and can offer their two cents?

Lots of opinions on monitors of course, and I have no opinion on that particular new model.

I want to suggest one thing that has been very satisfactory for me in my choice of monitors and headphones. If you select one that is really established and well -regarded you will find that set of monitors showing up as presets in other products which is really convenient.

So first, if it is a well regarded product the monitors probably sound absolutely great.

Second, products like Arc or Sonarworks Reference 3 (for headphones or monitors) will have them as a preset.

Third, products like Focusrite VRM Box will have them as an available selection

Combined, this allows you and your ear to reference and compare in many satisfactory ways - even if you're in a 10 x 10 room.

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.
 
I know asking about recommended studio monitors is a lot like asking which guitar to buy.  You'll hear "Strat for sure!" and "Nothing but a Les Paul will do!" followed by "PRS all the way!" so I do understand that in some ways you can't go wrong and it's all a matter of preference.  What's tricky in my situation is that I'm stuck with a bad room, and even if I could afford a pair of high end monitors, I really don't think they'd do much good in this environment.  From what I've read, it seems that monitors with larger drivers/more bass output will actually create more problems in a small room than going with smaller nearfields.
 
I guess the problem with the Alphas is that they haven't been out long enough.  (ARC 2 came out before these monitors did, so that and other room correction utilities probably won't have them listed as options.)  I mean, I believe it's been over a year, but for whatever reason they just aren't getting a ton of press.  There again, all news I have found has been good news, so I suppose that's worth something.
 
I would definitely go with the CMS (or better yet the Solo6!) line if I had the cash and the space for it, but I won't be moving to another home anytime soon so I guess right now I'm okay with setting my sights a little lower.  Not that my current monitors are absolute crap, but I think it's safe to say than any of the monitors already mentioned would be a big step up.
 
When I was talking to GIK Acoustic about treating my room they recommended the KRK VXT6 monitors, but again, that was before the Alphas came out.  And they're $900 for the pair, in which case I might as well be considering the Alpha 65s then.  All of which might be too much oomph for my small room. :)  Arrggg!
 
I dunno.  I suppose I'll end up getting the Alpha 50s since I'm a cheapskate then end up getting a "real" set of monitors once I have a new house/better room.  I was just hoping someone had experience with them in a similar setup.
 
I tried uploading a picture of my room to give an idea of what I have to work with, but it asks me for a URL and I apparently can't upload a pic?
 
 

Yeah, maybe not.  I'm not concerned about volume, and obviously better/tighter bass response is desirable, which is what the larger driver would offer.  I just know that really small rooms are going to have a lot of bass issues, even with treatment and trapping, and that kicking out more 300Hz-and-below frequencies will only add to the problem.  
 
Then again, my Alesis monitors have 6.5" woofers too, so at the very least I'd have the same problems I do now, but with improved tightness and clarity across the entire spectrum.
 
I'm looking into Alpha 65 reviews now...there seem to be more of them out there.

I upgraded from Samson Resolv 6.5a speakers to JBL LSR308's a year ago.  I always had problems with the bass mix and the reason I selected the 8" over 5" speaker model.  Since getting the LSR308's I haven't had one issue with the bass mix. 

Hey all.  I finally got a chance to stop by Guitar Center today to give some of these models a test drive. I stayed away from the top end models (although Guitar Center didn't have many offerings in that area) and focused only on those in the $700-$1000 per pair price range.
 
I listened to the Focal Alphas (both 50 & 65, although they didn't have an 80), the JBL LSR305 & LSR308, a couple of Dynaudios, some KRKs (alas, only Rokkits and no VXT models) but to my surprise, there was one that blew everything away: The Yamaha HS8.
 
Now, a couple things to note: all monitors were lined up on shelves flat against the wall, and the room wasn't really treated.  None of them were of optimal height, and of course, due to the layout, the coveted equilateral triangle sweet spot didn't exist.  To compound the issue, they weren't level-matched, so I had to be careful not to mistake a boost in volume as a boost in clarity/quality.  
 
However, I was able to plug my iPhone into the system and sample music that I'm very familiar with, so although the room and monitor placement was less than ideal, I was able to listen to a wide range of familiar music - from Green Day to John Williams - and in each and every case the Yamahas provided the best (and fullest) sonic representation of the songs I selected.  Loud, quiet, close up, back of the room...no matter where I was in the room or which song I was listening to, those Yamahas just put a big, dumb smile on my face.
 
To be honest, the Alpha 65 monitors didn't even come close...they were thin and boxy compared to the HS8s. I wish they'd had an Alpha 80 for a better comparison (obviously 65 couldn't compete with the HS8 with lower frequencies), but I'm not sure it would've made much of a difference.
 
I'm still going to do a little research, and ultimately it's a bit of a risk since my listening environment is nothing like Guitar Center so there's no telling how they'll sound in my room, but man. My song selections sounded phenomenal through the Yamahas so I'm pretty sure I'll be owning a pair in short order. Plus, a pair of HS8s is $100 cheaper than a pair of Alpha 65s, so that's kinda nifty.
 
It's just...they're so friggin' big. :)

In a proper space, and with levels matched I think most of us would  be hard pressed to hear a dramatic difference between monitors of a specific design, and while there will be differences between designs themselves, for the most part the differences are small.

Loudspeaker technology is pretty mature. A driver of a specific size is going to move a certain amount of air, no matter who made the driver. Some aspects, such as behavior at the extremes of the directional pattern, or extremes of the passband, may be a little more obvious, but they are still seldom dramatic.

What we pay for, when we pay $1000 instead of $100 for a pair of monitors or a microphone is that last 20%, or more likely 10%. OK, at the $100 price point we will likely give up a little bit of longevity, so let's say $500?

The biggest thing we buy, ESPECIALLY for monitors, is that which pleases our ears. I happen to really like the sound of the Equator, JBL, & Presonus monitors I auditioned. I also really like the sound of the Adam and Eve monitors I've used in the past, and I love my Urei 809s! I always preferred Altec over JBL and EV back in the bad old days too. Go figure!

There are patently poor monitors on the market - some fall apart, some are fatiguing, some are just plain inaccurate. But I think they are few and far between, and I didn't run into any this time around.

So when you are shopping for something for the studio (or the road rig) you have to keep in mind that a lot of the final decision will come down to plain old personal preference. Once you get past a certain threshold.

Yes, that means that my suggestions, and all the others, won't help anyone select a monitor. It might help you avoid one if it is particularly bad, but that's about it. And that's why, for a long time, I didn't participate in equipment threads.

I participate now mostly to try to provide options that I think folks might want to consider - and if I ever tell you that this or that is definitive then feel free to ignore me!
 

streckfus
I'm still going to do a little research, and ultimately it's a bit of a risk since my listening environment is nothing like Guitar Center so there's no telling how they'll sound in my room, but man. My song selections sounded phenomenal through the Yamahas so I'm pretty sure I'll be owning a pair in short order.

If you can't trust your ears, what else is there ?  And they seem to have already decided.
 
The Yamaha's have rear-firing ports so you'll want them well away from walls or anything else behind them (which certainly wasn't the case at GC).

Paul P

streckfus
I'm still going to do a little research, and ultimately it's a bit of a risk since my listening environment is nothing like Guitar Center so there's no telling how they'll sound in my room, but man. My song selections sounded phenomenal through the Yamahas so I'm pretty sure I'll be owning a pair in short order.

If you can't trust your ears, what else is there ?  And they seem to have already decided.
 
The Yamaha's have rear-firing ports so you'll want them well away from walls or anything else behind them (which certainly wasn't the case at GC).

Yep, even though the room setup wasn't ideal, all of the music I sampled just sounded "right" on the Yamahas. I just wanted to dig a little deeper to see if there were any known problems with those particular monitors but thus far I haven't come across any red flags.
 
Unfortunately my room is way too small to get an ideal listening environment.  The monitors are about a foot away from the back wall, and three feet away from the side walls.  (As mentioned earlier, I do have absorption up in the front corners, side reflection points and cloud above the listening position.)  Of course, as you mentioned, that's still better than Guitar Center's setup. I may end up fiddling with the low shelf switch on the monitor if things feel out of whack.

Heh, I  bought a pair of M-Audio BX8a's, plus stage stands, from a musician off of the Albuquerque Craigslist for $100. Sound great - couldn't pass up the deal.
 
 
 
 

AT
The MSP series are  monitors, while the HS series are home speakers.

 
Not sure Yamaha would agree.  There's not much difference in price between the two, but an important difference is that the MSPs have front-firing ports which may be better in streckfus's environment (if you like ports, that is).
 

THese have been around for a long time and are sort of similar to Yamaha's. They don't sound great but mixes translate to all systems. 
 
http://www.auratonesoundcubes.com/
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/5CPair
 
At less than $400 for a PAIR they are a good buy for those who have something good to power them with.. 
 

 

Well, went to Guitar Center to pick up a pair of HS8s.  They were listed at $349 each, but apparently there was some sort of promotion going on, because the grand total came to $567, including tax! Pretty hefty discount, I'd say!
 
It's going to take some time getting used to the new monitors because they certainly sound different in my environment (and man, do those things get LOUD), but they are a significant upgrade over my previous monitors, without a doubt.  The highs get a little harsh/overpowering at loud levels, which I suppose is understandable since they're less than three feet away from my ears, but it's not like I mix at that kind of level anyway. There's certainly much more clarity across the audio spectrum with these bad boys than my previous setup.
 
Thanks for all the feedback.

AT
Many, many people are happy w/ the HS.  It is just I've just seen a lot of mps speakers in big studios, but never the HS.  But as always, listen for yourself.  They have to make the engineer happy, not me or Yamaha marketing.

I definitely bow to your greater experience.  I did contemplate a smiley after my Yamaha comment which would have been clearer.  My main point was, considering what you'd said, that the mps could be a better choice both because it is more 'professional' and it has forward ports - and the choice could be easy because the price difference is more or less insignificant.