Rain
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Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
Versus using a regular amp I mean. I'm not a fan of acoustic electric sound - it seems so backward to me to capture the sound under the strings. But it has its use and I've come to terms with the idea. I would assume that if there's a P.A. involved, the preferred method would be to go direct into that, anyway. So unless you find yourself in a situation where you have to play live w/o a P.A. but to be loud enough for a big room, there's no point in using an amp at all. But in such a scenario, would it make that much of a difference to have a dedicated acoustic amp instead of using one I already own? Do people get as anal about acoustic amps as they do over electric amps, you know, tube vs solid state and all? I've been an electric guitar guy for 30 years or so, and acoustic is a whole new paradigm to me...
post edited by Rain - 2016/02/03 19:00:31
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craigb
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 19:27:18
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/02/03 20:35:11
Depends what you're trying to do. I used to have an SWR California Blonde that I mostly used at home but, when my friends came up here to play in a casino, they were pretty excited to have it available. I've always assumed it's because it has been set up to amplify as cleanly as possible and any extra abilities were specifically to make an amplified acoustic tone sound better. Naturally, most amps meant for electric guitar contribute (i.e., color) the tone hopefully in a musically pleasing manner. (BTW - Brahms says that he prefers an acoustic amp.  )
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Rain
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 20:35:09
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craigb
Depends what you're trying to do. I used to have an SWR California Blonde that I mostly used at home but, when my friends came up here to play in a casino, they were pretty excited to have it available. I've always assumed it's because it has been set up to amplify as cleanly as possible and any extra abilities were specifically to make an amplified acoustic tone sound better. Naturally, most amps meant for electric guitar contribute (i.e., color) the tone hopefully in a musically pleasing manner.
(BTW - Brahms says that he prefers an acoustic amp.)
Makes sense. :) As for Brahms - it's funny because I love to play rock and metal and I am involved in a couple of bands right now. But outside of that, and except when working out in the gym, I seem to gravitate towards classical music pretty much exclusively these days - there's just so much stuff that I'm only discovering, so many great works to listen to. It's also much easier to read while listening to Schubert than it is listening to Cradle of Filth. I don't know. At the risk of sounding pedantic or overly dramatic, I feel like I've made decent provisions of popular music and medias in my life time, and being in my 4th decade, I somehow feel the need to use what little time I have left more discerningly.
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craigb
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 20:38:54
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Nothing shocking to me! I've got over 100 really high quality Classical CD's. At one point, I had more Mozart CD's than any other band or artist (not really close any more - hard to compete with over 160 Tangerine Dream albums - lol!).
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Rain
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 20:49:53
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craigb
Nothing shocking to me! I've got over 100 really high quality Classical CD's. At one point, I had more Mozart CD's than any other band or artist (not really close any more - hard to compete with over 160 Tangerine Dream albums - lol!).
These days I seem to be collecting Requiems and Masses and sacred music. Tomàs Lui de Victoria's Requiem has been a huge hit with me. I've only just discovered Penderecki and his Polish Requiem last week - though I'm usually not that into more modern orchestral music and seem to have a preference for music before 1850-ish, that's one that I really, really like.
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BobF
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 21:18:40
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/02/04 00:39:52
I had an Acoustisonic Jr years ago. Great sounding amp. Not true of an A/E played into a regular electric guitar amp. A lot of the acoustic amps are actually mini PAs with handles that have features that make them handy for a solo artist or duo and for A/E guitars specifically. For example, the Acoustisonic Jr had a notch filter that all but killed pick attack noise. It also had a nice chorus and reverb. Add the 2nd inst/mic channel and it was all a duo needed.
I like using small amps when I play acoustic to get a touch of reverb and/or chorus and to get some sound pointed back toward me. If I'm not recording, I mostly use my THR10 ACO setting for my A/E. Very sweet to me. If I am recording, I go straight into my interface.
The reason I no longer have the Acoustisonic is b/c I NEVER play out.
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ampfixer
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 22:25:51
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/02/04 00:40:04
Acoustic amps are nice but limited in terms of venue size. If the venue is real big you would have to mic it to the P.A.
Your Marshall is really not suited to acoustic work. My suggestion would be a good quality pre amp made for acoustic feeding the P.A. and in smaller venues just use a mic.
I'm sure others with more experience would chime in. Most of the players I work with are using microphones because they don't care for the sound of a piezo pickup.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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yorolpal
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/03 23:34:41
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/02/04 00:40:07
Had the Cali Blonde for years. Great acoustic amp. Replaced it with the Strawberry Blonde a couple of years ago. Much lighter:-)
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sharke
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 00:39:27
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2016/02/04 00:54:09
Rain
craigb
Nothing shocking to me! I've got over 100 really high quality Classical CD's. At one point, I had more Mozart CD's than any other band or artist (not really close any more - hard to compete with over 160 Tangerine Dream albums - lol!).
These days I seem to be collecting Requiems and Masses and sacred music. Tomàs Lui de Victoria's Requiem has been a huge hit with me.
I've only just discovered Penderecki and his Polish Requiem last week - though I'm usually not that into more modern orchestral music and seem to have a preference for music before 1850-ish, that's one that I really, really like.
I was the same way with Renaissance guitar and lute music at one point. Was totally obsessed with the music of John Dowland, Anthony Holborne and Francesco Da Milano. To me there is something fundamentally beautiful about the music of that era and those guys were absolute masters of it. My CD shelf is bursting with that kind of music and I also have most of it in standard notation, used to play it obsessively on guitar (with the G string tuned to F#, natch). Regarding acoustic guitar amps, I've always been of the opinion that the only reason you would amplify an acoustic guitar with a pickup would be for convenience sake. The raw acoustic sound or the miked sound is always better, to my ears anyway. Bert Jansch in the latter part of his career played an electro-acoustic Yamaha live and I was not a fan of the sound, at least not compared to the beautiful miked guitar sound on his albums.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 05:23:43
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FWIW , I'm basing my opinion on playing out in clubs , not arenas ... The times I have played out and not mic'ed my acoustic guitar were the times where I used a sound hole pickup . I happen to like the way that sounds over a peizo pick up if there is no sound system and mic available and I found it totally unnecessary to use an amp designed for acoustic guitars .... My personal preference when I have played out is to use on of my Fender combo 's ... I have used my 1966 Fender Vibrolux Reverb for electric and acoustic gigs and have gotten great results ... Same thing goes for some other Fender combo's I have ...Super Champ , Champ .... Honestly I do not see the point of getting an acoustic guitar amp unless some one is looking to run a mic + an an acoustic guitar at the same time and mimic what a small portable PA would sound like ... That is unless some one wants to use it as a personal on stage monitor and run a direct out ...which many of the acoustic guitar amps have ... If you are hard up for cash and you want to make due ,+ you don't need to run a mic at the same time into the amp you want to use for your acoustic I would recommend a variety of different amps ... I have used a Vox Pathfinder 15 R for acoustic guitar in small clubs un mick'd and have had very satisfying results It has filled the room and places where people were out to listen to music It is good enough for Nora Jones it's good enough for me ....about a hundred bucks or less used ... Additionally there are plenty of affordable choices out there . Roland cubes work good for acoustic guitar , Solid State Fender combo's ...heck the 2 input combos with two speakers run low 2's used ...even new they are cheap ... A 2 input amp means you can run a mic in addition to your acoustic ... Peavey Keyboard and Bass amps are decent ..actually any 2 input S.S guitar combo's would fit the bill ..if you need to add a mic w your acoustic ... The Fender Excelsior is set up for a guitar and Mic combination , nice tube amp ...about 3 bills ... I can go on and on I have had people that have brought acoustic guitar amps to clubs ask me if it was OK to use my amp for their second set Kenny
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 08:39:26
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I think it all depends on the size of the venue and how often you play gigs as well as the percentage of time you spend onstage with the acoustic guitar..... and of course, how much discretionary income you have to spend on amps.
I've played acoustic with both sound hole pickups and Pizeo pickups through my normal guitar amp as well as into the PA. Most amps have the ability to be set and played very clean. Even the Marshall can be set to a crystal setting. If you're playing a few songs out of the entire night, on the acoustic, this should work relatively well. Not putting down the audience, but a hard rocking audience isn't going to complain about you using a Marshall for an acoustic tune or two.
If on the other hand, you are playing a substantial amount of acoustic guitar in the average nightly set, you will certainly want to invest in the proper gear. The reason I could see for using a stage amp would simply be to hear myself properly. Going direct relies on the FOH mixer and the stage monitor mixer (if you have one) to set the proper levels for the performers to hear properly.
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Moshkito
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 09:05:30
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Rain
...
As for Brahms - it's funny because I love to play rock and metal and I am involved in a couple of bands right now. But outside of that, and except when working out in the gym, I seem to gravitate towards classical music pretty much exclusively these days - there's just so much stuff that I'm only discovering, so many great works to listen to.
...
And you will find even more by the time you start listening to things you know conducted by someone else. It's a treat. And very different on the accents and definition of the orchestra, as well as its positioning to provide different emphasis on various details. This was used to magnificent effect by Bernard Herrmann who did all of those science fiction films and Hitchcock as well in the 50's and 60's.
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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Starise
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 09:12:24
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From a technical approach I think it's necessary. From the opinions expressed so far it isn't absolutely necessary to some.
With a dedicated acoustic amp I think you get a better sound. They are designed for the kinds of pickups in acoustic guitars with regard to impedance. Strictly speaking they aren't all mini PAs. Some of them have special efx and filters designed for acoustic guitars only. The whole purpose being to hopefully make the sound you already have louder without color . If the goal is to add color, then you might have a different opinion. Electric guitar amps were obviously designed for electric guitars. Probably more times than not players recruit electric guitar amps for the purpose and roll with the differences.
If I had a nice Martin or Taylor and didn't want it to sound any different, I would be looking at acoustic amps. In the case of using a PA input instead, most acoustic guitarists who play regularly use high quality dedicated DI boxes instead of those cheap boxes. You're still at the mercy of the sound guy though.
An acoustic amp could be dual purpose.If you have something like a Line 6 POD it might actually sound better through the line inputs of an acoustic amp. From everything I read they work best on an amp with the flattest freq. possible...that would be a good PA, keyboard amp, or an acoustic amp. Not an electric guitar amp because they don't have a flat frequency response.
I've never yet really heard an acoustic sound very good through an amp if it wasn't made for it. I'm picky though.
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Moshkito
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 09:18:55
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☄ Helpfulby Rimshot 2016/02/05 04:17:58
Hi, Honestly, I think you guys are getting way too picky and silly. 90% of the audience can not appreciate the music to the level that you think, and being critical about the last 5 to 10 percent is weird ... almost no one in the audience will know, or understand the difference. I will say, though, that the right combination at the right time, usually makes a difference between good and bad, but I doubt that a different amp is the reason why ... I think the person crystalizing their experience and mix/match the amp/acoustic together is much more important than just a mere idea that a better amp or mike, will make this guitar sound better when it isn't that good. Every instrument, including a kid's play guitar has its place and it can be used ... anywhere ... if done right! I say concentrate more on your material and improve it ... and that thinking that only a monster amp can save your bad voice, is bizarre. This was one of the main reason why I did so well with new actors and actresses, because they did not have any "ideas" about anything, except how to learn their lines and play them to the best of their ability. And that made for a much fresher presentation, than the one that would otherwise be more slick ... and have nothing to show for it. This was the difference, for me, in seeing Mississipi Charles Bevel with Chick Streetman on plain guitar and no amps, and David Crosby solo with an amp, and sounding horrible. And the other 2 guys could sing around David, not that he was a bum on that score. He was good, but on that night, he got taken to school!
post edited by Moshkito - 2016/02/04 09:35:13
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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Starise
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 09:24:59
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/02/04 20:09:08
"Honestly, I think you guys are getting way too picky and silly. 90% of the audience can not appreciate the music to the level that you think, and being critical about the last 5 to 10 percent is weird ... almost no one in the audience will know, or understand the difference."
This is Rain's post, so I won't take it off base, but to answer your comment. For myself, it isn't about what the audience can notice. It's about what I like to hear.
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Moshkito
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 09:35:38
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☄ Helpfulby Rimshot 2016/02/05 04:19:06
Starise
This is Rain's post, so I won't take it off base, but to answer your comment. For myself, it isn't about what the audience can notice. It's about what I like to hear.
Understood ... however, you are more critical about it all, than the audience can see or hear. From a directing perspective, an amp can not make your guitar and hand/voice sound better ... and on any given day, you might sound better than the best without all that stuff ... I'm not sure you can see this, since we live in a consumerist society that thinks there is always better out there, and in your case or mine, our voice and hand is not it! Weird is all I can say! Concentrate on YOUR OWN magic ... not what the amp can do or not. Regardless of amp, your magic will come across just fine, because it can not be removed! Magic is magic ... an amp is just an amp ... supposedly adding more to your magic ... and that is a bit of a rock music fallacy about louder is supposedly better and cleaner. I've told Rain this before in different posts. He knows it, but won't discuss it, and instead is looking for other things, that are not within him and his wife for the music they want to create. The magic will not be on any amp. PERIOD! The magic is WITHIN! Even in Las Vegas!
post edited by Moshkito - 2016/02/04 09:53:38
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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yorolpal
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 10:37:54
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Right. See, Pedro, ol pal...some of us do this for US...not for them;-)
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craigb
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 11:32:58
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 As you can see from my "for sale" pics, the Blonde can handle two (and even three!) inputs with an included aural enhancer (plus the tuner out is a nice addition). She's quite the slut isn't she?  Turn her around and you find an effects loop, level adjustments, a reverb return and footswitch jack as well as outputs to the board. In other words, pretty much everything you might need for two people to play an acoustic set, be able to hear themselves while sending a signal to the FOH.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 14:39:45
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I think you make some valid point's Strarise , Somebody that is geared up as an acoustic instrumentalist or a multi instrumentalist where they double on various stringed acoustic instruments would probably be best served by a dedicated acoustic amplification rig . For those that have made the investment to go there they did so with their eyes wide open ... Personally I have nothing against an amp made specifically for acoustic instruments .. I would not want it to be my only amp ... There's a lot of ways to skin that cat ... I had a JC 120 for a while and I never even plug ed into the front end .. I used to run stereo through a rack mount pre amp and effects chain and bypass the whole JC 120's preamp section all together .....That amp had 2 inputs in the back for plugging in and running a different signal chain . Just about the same can be done with any amp that has a send return ... Just plug into the return section w a preamp or a pod ... A lot of the new S S or hybrid amps come with an auxiliary input so people can play along w a CD ... A person that knows what they are doing can feed the auxiliary input w a nice little mid to high level Acoustic Guitar Specific Pre amp ... Heck even those can be costly for a name brand high quality unit ...Yet they do offer the advantage of portability and studio quality sound ... Speaking of studio quality sound for an acoustic guitar that is consistent , reliable , portable . This one goes out to Rain... I know you have a Mackbook Pro 13 w Logic ...have you ever dialed up an acoustic dream guitar sound and ran it through your powered home studio monitors ? If you like the way that sounds you may not even need an acoustic guitar amp ..you may only need a small self powered stage monitor just a thought , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/04 14:54:55
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Starise
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 15:33:57
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Oh I love those old JC 120's. I would have had one if my studio was bigger. Two 12" speakers even at half volume are a bit much in a bedroom setting...probably lift the shirt right off my behind. Like running from a lit M-80
If price wasn't an issue I would have one of those Bose "stalk" systems for live playing. Hard to beat one of those, even with a stick. I won't ever have one though because I only play sessions in small bars with 4 to 6 other players. The patrons want you loud but not so loud they can't talk to one another.You can hear all you need to hear in there without amplification.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/04 17:01:28
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Starise , That JC 120 sure was a nice amp while it lasted ... I had to ditch the JC120 because when I had it I lived on the 4th floor in a NYC apt building that didn't have an elevator .... What a schlep that thing was  ...to add insult to injury , I didn't have a car back then so I had to take the subway to get to gigs and rehearsals ... I don't think I ever made it through the turnstile once w that thing ... Had to always wait for the token clerk the few times I brought it out of my apt. When I did I always caught a lot of stink eye from the clerk in the booth .... It seems that folks during rush hour didn't mind too much because they would just sit on my amp Finally I got smart and bought a Fender Super Champ to replace the JC 120 ...still have it ...going on 35 years .. Bose makes some great sounding equipment ...top shelf quality that I have admired from a distance ... Yes I know the type of places you are talking about when you play out . I used to play often in small bars , clubs , restaurants and coffee houses ...once upon a time A lot of times for " the regulars " It was their social thing / hangout ... On the nights I wasn't drawing a crowd and when it was just me and them ... The louder I played the louder they talked ... For now I'll file that one under The War Stories probably all of us here could tell ... have a good one , Kenny
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Starise
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/05 11:38:05
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They are certainly big amps. Four floors with no elevator? Ouch!
Hey maybe we should start a thread about war stories playing out. You probably have some good ones to tell.
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codamedia
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Re: Is there really a point in buying an acoustic guitar amp?
2016/02/05 13:16:08
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I would never plug an acoustic instrument into a guitar amp, just as I wouldn't plug a keyboard into a guitar amp. Those are instruments that want "full range" and an electric guitar amp is not designed to do that.
My choices...
1: As long as I have my own monitor mix.... I'll send the acoustic direct and listen through the monitor
2: No monitor - Then any full range amp will do.... Acoustic, keyboard, even a bass amp or powered speaker. As long as their is a speaker and a horn/tweeter it will work for me.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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