Audio engine dropouts

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Rockscientist
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2016/02/03 21:54:28 (permalink)

Audio engine dropouts

I'm experiencing a weird dropout pattern that I can't seem to troubleshoot, or even understand how it is happening the way it is. I'll open a project and press play. At a certain point in the track, I'll get a dropout. The now line (if that's what it's called, I'm sure it isn't ...) stays where it is, and if I try to press play again, playback won't even start. If I back the now line up by a measure or two, playback starts until it hits that same spot, or within +/- 0.5 seconds of that same spot, and then the dropout happens again. If I move the now line forward a few measures, playback won't happen but if I move it much later into the track, it will play. When playback is started from after the "dropout dead zone", it will continue until it hits another such dead zone, where the same behavior occurs.
 
The part that is really stumping me is that there seems to be NO reason whatsoever why the dropouts are occurring where they are. It isn't anywhere near a new synth responding to MIDI for the first time, or several more tracks of audio hitting the processor at once, or one track of audio with 8 plugins on it, or anything crazy. It even seems to happen in almost the same spots when I close and reload the track.
 
I've mostly had this happen on one project, but is has occurred on at least two others, so the problem is not with the project file as I originally thought. Things I've tried that didn't work:
 
Closing/reopening the project
Turning off all FX globally
Unloading all soft synths and samplers
Archiving groups of audio tracks (this initially worked once, until I reloaded the project, Archived the same tracks and got the drop outs again)
Saving the project as a bundle and reopening said bundle
Applying Manchester Update 1
 
I THINK this started after the original Manchester update, but I'm honestly not sure. So yeah, lil help?

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#1

23 Replies Related Threads

    noynekker
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/03 22:18:49 (permalink)
    You haven't mentioned in your "try" list increasing Asio audio buffers in Sonar preferences ?

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    #2
    Paul P
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/03 23:32:34 (permalink)
     
    Any chance you have automation on the track/bus cutting out the sound for certain periods of time ?

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    #3
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 01:27:08 (permalink)
    noynekker - No I hadn't. I'd been running everything fine at those same settings for a while, but I went ahead and messed with it for science. Increasing the buffer on my interface to 20ms (the maximum it allows) made no difference. I changed the I/O buffer size for playback in Sonar preferences and things started to get weird. I had it set at 256 buffers, and changing it to either 64 or 1024 buffers both caused playback to start with a long delay and produce no sound. Changing it to 128 gave the same results as the 256 setting. Nothing solved, but good idea.
    Paul P - No automation in the project

    DAW Vitals
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    #4
    markyzno
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 02:07:53 (permalink)
    I have had this oddity on a few projects, my work around was this.
     
    At the exact point where the project locks up join the clips together on their respective tracks.
     
    Hope this work around works for you.

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    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 18:50:40 (permalink)
    You could have a corrupt wave file. Try archiving each track one at a time to isolate the broken one. If you do find a corrupt clip, you may be able to salvage it by bouncing the track to itself. If that doesn't work, try a slip-edit to eliminate the broken part. If that doesn't work, split the clip before and after the break point and mute the broken part. If that doesn't work, that part of the track is toast.


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    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 20:43:40 (permalink)
    I was going to say the same thing.. Do you have back up copies of the project? 

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    #7
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 22:55:13 (permalink)
    Thanks guys
     
    I did some playing around with this and got some interesting results, but nothing that actually GOT me anywhere unfortunately. I opened the project in question and let it play until it hit the first dropout. There were only 3 tracks with audio going at that moment, and none right at a clip juncture point, but I tried joining the 2 clips closest to the drop point on each track anyway. One of the tracks kept giving me an error when I tried to bounce the clips, so I deleted each one in turn, and after deleting the second one the project played fine. I noticed that when I truncated the front end of the clip by however much, the dropout point moved within the project to a couple seconds before the start of that clip. I undid the bounces and opened a backup copy of the song, copied the offending clip, and re-opened the problem project to paste it in. Just for the hell of it, I tried playing the project back again and it played right through the clip (the one that had been in the project - I had not pasted the backup copy into the project yet). This time, playback stopped just before another clip in a different track.
     
    I do have backup copies of everything, so my next step might be making a new project and importing all the audio files again. I'm currently mixing an album while cleaning up the programming on it, and I've found it easier to import all the audio from each song into a new project where all the tracks and busses have certain plugin chains already set to go as opposed to saving each and every chain and then loading them up one by one in the original project (there are enough similar sounds from song to song to make this approach economical). Based on what I found when I was working on it earlier today, it seems as if Sonar is having trouble loading all the audio in the song simultaneously, so it randomly de-prioritizes a few pieces of audio when loading. I've successfully opened projects with all the same audio clips in them dozens of times before this though, and my RAM meter isn't saying it's anywhere near full (probably about 30% for this project).
     
    I'm starting to think it's something in Manchester, does anyone know how to roll back to Lexington?

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    #8
    scook
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/04 23:02:05 (permalink)
    Right-click the SONAR Platinum line in the Command Center. Rollback is a option on the context menu. The available versions are listed in the rollback submenu.
    #9
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/05 11:14:14 (permalink)
    Thanks scook, unfortunately rolling back didn't work.
     
    I noticed something new this time: One of the clips in the project (right at the start of it in fact) all of a sudden went visually blank. By that I mean the waveform disappeared, the little "record #" tag disappeared, and the clip turned grey. There was a dropout when it happened, but when I pressed play again, the track continued. The sound of that clip after the dropout was SEVERELY garbled and distorted. The best way I can think to describe it is it sounded like a bit crusher had been used on it to take the bit depth down from 24 to about 3-4, but then it also sounded a bit more "chaotic" than that. I reloaded the project and playback would take a couple seconds to start, followed by no sound at all.
     
    It's almost starting to sound like a hardware issue or something, like my RAM is going bad.

    DAW Vitals
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    #10
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/09 10:10:02 (permalink)
    ... Anyone have any other ideas? The problem seems to be getting worse and effecting other projects that don't have as much going on in them, at least as far as plugin count is concerned.

    DAW Vitals
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    #11
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/09 10:14:03 (permalink)
    cleared your picture cache?

    just a sec

    #12
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/09 18:33:25 (permalink)
    pwalpwal - No, how do I?

    DAW Vitals
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    #13
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/10 13:17:54 (permalink)
    check you prefs for the location of the picture cache
    close/exit sonar
    navigate in explorer to the location
    delete all the WOV files
     
    if you search the forum (and extend the date range for the results, or just use google instead) you should find plenty of info
     
    good luck!

    just a sec

    #14
    Rockscientist
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/11 10:30:02 (permalink)
    pwalpwal - Tried this and thought it worked for a few minutes, as I got sustained playback longer than before. A few minutes in, the same old thing happened. What are the WOV files and why would you delete them but not the other files in the Picure cache folder?

    DAW Vitals
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    #15
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/11 11:19:48 (permalink)
    you can try deleting the other files as well, same routine as above
    they're used for the little "preview" wav images displayed inside sonar

    just a sec

    #16
    GregGraves
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/13 23:15:37 (permalink)
    I might be wrong, and probably am, but once the recording gets sufficiently complex, given the limitations of your cpu etc., you have to increase buffer size of the audio card.  I don't think you can do this WITHIN Sonar, but need to shut Sonar down, then go to your AtoD card and set the buffer there to something like 1024, then reboot Sonar.  That is what I have to do when mixing with a lot of plugins.

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    #17
    Anderton
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/14 10:27:28 (permalink)
    I had a dropout problem once on a particular project. I clicked on "Help" in the Toast notification and went through each of the options. I forget which one solved the problem, but one of them did and also solved a slow startup after hitting play which I thought was inherent in the program.

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    #18
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 10:22:38 (permalink)
    I had forgotten that while an ASIO Buffer Size of 64 usually was OK for one of my audio interfaces, 32 was pushing it - and after updating to RC1, I began having weird audio engine dropouts AND one or both midi controllers being lost to Sonar - even though they were still connected and Windows and Sonar were both indicating they were working fine.
     
    As soon as I bumped back up to 128, all of the weirdness went away, and I left a project looping for the past 3 hours and had no issues, whereas with the smaller ASIO Buffer Size settings of either 32 or 64, I would get an audio engine dropout or one/both midi controllers would be disconnected to Sonar when they weren't OR the audio engine would dropout.
     
    So - just a thought to maybe bump up the ASIO Buffer Size a tad, to see if it helps.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #19
    deswind
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 16:12:50 (permalink)
    I am not sure if this is in the category - sometimes when I press play or record it will take some seconds before anything happens.  Then it will be instant after I try it again.  Did not have this on earlier versions than Manchester.
    post edited by deswind - 2016/02/15 16:26:39
    #20
    MrDoc
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 17:52:02 (permalink)
    I had a somewhat similar problem recently, where some instruments would get dropouts at unpredictable spots.  In my case, it turned out that there was a Z3ta 2 update since the last time i had worked on the project, so all of my Z3ta 2 synths were acting up until I updated it (purchased through Steam, here).  If you don't have z3ta 2, or if any of your unruly synths aren't z3ta 2, then it's probably not your issue.  Hope you solve your issues, can't stand wanting to work and being stymied by technical issues!
    #21
    AllanH
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 18:03:10 (permalink)
    Are you using any Kontakt instruments?
     

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    deswind
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 18:55:04 (permalink)
    I am using "play" - East-West.  I bet I am due for an update of it!
    #23
    AllanH
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    Re: Audio engine dropouts 2016/02/15 19:11:26 (permalink)
    I'm on the latest Play and have no problems. Kontakt, however, has been behaving very poorly after the January's update (Manchester). I've had one heck of a time with Kontakt instruments that used to work fine.
     
    Play remains rock solid under stress.
    post edited by AllanH - 2016/02/15 20:41:56

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