Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar

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joden
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2016/02/09 14:10:15 (permalink)

Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar

Okay I am creating separate mp3 parts for backing tracks (I use Cantabile live so can actually play multiple MP3s at the same time)..
So here's the thing...each part created as an MP3 is exactly the same size?? Some tracks only have about 6 bars of audio total...How can this then equate to an 8mb mp3 file for this single part? And indeed each other part is also an 8mb file size..
 
Any ideas?
#1

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    stxx
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 14:16:47 (permalink)
    When you export, each track IS the same size and exports as the legnth of the project unless you only selected a portion.   Each track will therefore export at the same size irregardless of what is actually on the track.  Even if its all silence it still converts the same

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    #2
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 14:23:05 (permalink)
    This helps to line up tracks actually. 
     
    Still, turning on VBR should create smaller files for those that have a lot of silence in them. 
    #3
    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 14:33:29 (permalink)
    Yeah, I need the tracks to retain the same structure...I think if I select the actual part (clip?)  Sonar saves it to 0 start time...So bottom line if I want to save individual parts to MP3 and retain the same tracking, I have to put up with a 40mb + size MP3 file, yes? 
    #4
    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 14:34:37 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    This helps to line up tracks actually. 
     
    Still, turning on VBR should create smaller files for those that have a lot of silence in them. 




    Yeah but VBR has inherent issues in Sonar - like leaving a file that is like, 23 minutes long when it is really only 4 haha!
    #5
    scook
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 14:56:15 (permalink)
    Must not be running a recent version of SONAR. The VBR issue was fixed months ago.
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    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 17:58:47 (permalink)
    yeah, running Lexington at present...however that reply scook, does not really address the OP hahaha!
    There must be a better way to only save the actual data from a track with creating these humungous tracks - or is it an inherent isse with the mp3 codec?
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 18:55:19 (permalink)
    It was not in reply to the OP was it.
     
    The OP does not provide much information. There is a difference between exporting a track and exporting a clip. If that the issue see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3146261
     
    #8
    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 21:23:04 (permalink)
    scook
    It was not in reply to the OP was it.
     
    The OP does not provide much information. There is a difference between exporting a track and exporting a clip. If that the issue see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3146261
     




    hahaha! I AM the op .. thanks for the link interesting read..so it seems my assumption is correct, if I don't export the track, the component parts will end up all at 0 start point. I have experimented in Audacity to remove the time between audio content in the MP3 and it does reduce the size somewhat, but with, sometimes, up to 8 tracks to do per song this will get very passe very quickly hahaha!  So it's either be stuck with huge mp3 files or give up the idea altogether.
     
    Maybe just run sonar live via playlist , but that has issues as it doesn't close down CWP's when a new one is loaded...I can see issues with that once there are about 20-30 CWP's sitting in the background!
     
    Oh well, back to the drawing board..
     
    Thanks
    #9
    scook
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 21:26:25 (permalink)
    I see you are not looking for a solution
    Have fun
     
    #10
    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 21:52:11 (permalink)
    on the contrary Scook - but there seems to be NO solution...I cannot export a track that only has say 4 bars of audio data to anything less than the size of the biggest track. That seems to be the upshot, so yes, not solution possible in regard to the OP.
     
    Sorry to see you taking that attitude! It is not like you.
    #11
    John
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/09 22:14:11 (permalink)
    joden
    on the contrary Scook - but there seems to be NO solution...I cannot export a track that only has say 4 bars of audio data to anything less than the size of the biggest track. That seems to be the upshot, so yes, not solution possible in regard to the OP.
     
    Sorry to see you taking that attitude! It is not like you.


    For the most part that would be the desired behavior. I can't imagine a case where an entire track even with only 4 measures does not export the full length. Clips on the other hand will export just the 4 measures. Because to my knowledge MP3 has no time stamp it would appear to be the wrong format to export to.  BF waves can have a time stamp but it is an uncompressed format. You may wish to research other formats that may have a time stamp attribute. I know of no compressed formats that would. However I am not looking.  
     
    Personally I rely on the way Sonar exports. It seems to me to be an ideal way. What you are noticing is it is not ideal for your usage. Considering I can't recall this ever having come up before its likely a very unusual case. You do have some control though. Exporting as wav and import those to trim any dead air after the audio may reduce the total bytes used while exporting to MP3 with a variable bit rate.  This should reduce the file size. 

    Best
    John
    #12
    joden
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    Re: Interesting issue with MP3 encoder in Sonar 2016/02/10 11:33:37 (permalink)
    Thanks John, yes that was the solution I came up with - as I wrote earlier - in fact I can do this with an MP3 of the data as well as wav (using Audacity) and it does reduce the sized somewhat, however it is not ideal and is labour intensive when dealing with multiple parts to edit. But it is a solution haha!
     
    And yes I totally agree, it is the desired behaviour it was a method of running live dynamically mixable MP3 parts that got me along this path - it is the one thing I miss about MIDI, that ability for live control.
     
    I am also looking at using Sonar itself as the live tool, however I have not come across any way to remove projects after they are finished, using the Playlist option. As I wrote earlier, when one has say 30-40 CWP's stacked in the background, then I can see possible issues coming from that.
     
    Still there may even be a work-around for that too Unfortunately Scook did not comprehend my posts, and simply took the view I was not looking for a solution...I did try to keep it light, hence the laughs etc...he must have been having a bad day hahaha!
     
    Thanks for your post! 
    #13
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