Tame those cymbals

Now this is getting out of control.  I mean the drum rings are one thing but muting cymbals is another.  No matter what you do the sound of the cymbal will change the moment anything touches it no matter how light.  There is no way around it.  The edge of a cymbal vibrates in a huge manner. 
 
The problem are the drummers themselves.  They are simply hitting cymbals way too hard.  The thing is a cymbal can produce a lot of sound with only a very light stroke.
 
It is better to master the concept of the amount of power you use on a cymbals.  It is hard because some drums need to be hit harder (toms usually) and others not so hard and cymbals a different level of power again in order to get a very even level over all the drum surfaces.  That takes skill.  Experienced drummers can do it and it sounds much better.  I can do it but I have learned from years of recording myself  (a single mic ohead as well nothing fancy here) and hearing back how things sound.  Over time I have adjusted the amount of power required for the surfaces in order to get the perfect drum sound.  That is the way to learn how to do it.
 
Another problem area is the snare.  Most drummers hit it way too hard as well.  The snare drum can produce a very clear audible level even when you let the end of a stick drop under its own steam/gravity to the surface.

When you compare drums to most other acoustic instruments they are actually quite a bit louder.  So what drummers should be doing is dropping the amount of sound they make from the drums to match everything else.  (instead of the other way around) Even when playing through a big PA when you do that it works well.  Lovely even stage volume from everyone and a big loud sound out front.
 
Being a recording engineer helps though because I have always adjusted my volume on stage so that I was hearing a perfect well balanced mix.  Once you drop the drum levels down everything else just sounds amazing and very nice and seems to fall into place.  No one has to work over hard either.  The audience and the venue will love you forever!  They also record beautifully when hit way less hard too.  You get a horrible thin sound when you smash them.  When you play them at the right level they sing and sound fat.
 
With regard to cymbals I use to play in an Orbison/Presley tribute band.  There was a lot going on and we had a lovely lowish stage volume but a big sound out front.  I used to worry sometimes when the sound guy did not put mics on the hats or overheads.  All I had to do was use nylon tipped sticks and he said he could hear my hats and cymbals right over the top of the herd of elephants that was coming out front.  Isn't that interesting and I was not even hitting the cymbals hard at all, just playing the ride and hats at normal to low levels and crashing gently.  He used to say to me that if he miked them up they would end up too loud!

This drummer shows how it should be done:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CgdTtGv8o
 
Notice he ain't banging the crap out of them.
 
Dan

dcumpian
This drummer shows how it should be done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CgdTtGv8o
Notice he ain't banging the crap out of them.

Yes great example.  This is at the top end of hitting the drums but as you say still not smashing them.  Notice how he gets a nice sense of pushing and energy without all the smashing.  So many drummers think the energy is related to the level of hardness and loudness you are hitting the drums but in a way it has nothing to do with it.  It is all about driving the beat and placing the hits in the right place musically, timing wise. 
 
One of my drum teachers used to say let the energy flow right down your arm but stop it at the wrists and just let enough through to do the job.
 
Also notice how nice the snare sounds in this video.  Even though it is close miked it still sounds good and fat. He is not pounding the snare at all.  This is about as hard as I would get in force and loudness.  There is still plenty of dynamic range below this level too.
 
Herb if you are breaking sticks, heads and destroying cymbals or bleeding you are doing something wrong.  I have never broken a stick, head or cymbal in 46 years of playing.  End of story.
 
In terms of volume the whole band should be aiming for about 105 dB SPL which is known to be the most exciting sound pressure level.  (What a symphony orchestra can only reach in full force acoustically)  Anything over is bad and it all starts to go downhill from there.
 

Danny hit the nail on the head.  There are plenty of drummers who can play the drums.  The ones with finesse (The Steve Gadds and Jeff Porcoros of the world) are the ones that people enjoy hearing.
 
 

dcumpian
This drummer shows how it should be done:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CgdTtGv8o
 
Notice he ain't banging the crap out of them.
 
Dan

Great tune to start the day! Here's their entire 2014 New Year's Eve show.
 

Interesting thread.  I've tried playing at lower volume and I find I just don't "feel" the groove or the timing as well.  Granted, I'm sure I could get used to it over time, but I love the feel of hitting them hard.  
 
But that doesn't mean a loss of finesse either.  That's the part I'm not getting here.  I punch the bass and snare most of the time, for most of the music I record that is appropriate for that, but that doesn't apply to cymbals and fills.  I'm about ready to post my first song done with acoustic drums and if you listen you should hear the dynamics between the general beat and the fills.  
 
Now on taming cymbals...I saw Elton John in concert when I was a kid and I was mesmerized by the drummer and I remember being impressed how he hit his cymbals like a side-arm pitch.  I thought it looked cool and I started playing mine that way.  I never realized there was an actual functional point to what he was doing.  And now that I've got two overheads, I'm now beginning to be suspicious of the cymbal and hi-hat work being too high in the mix - the hi-hats are almost as loud as the snare.   
 
The sound is better and fuller with the overheads, but I'm afraid I'm ruining the overall mix....

scottcmusic
The first thing done in a professional recording studio after drums are recorded is the engineer usually starts applying high and low pass EQ filters on the drums to tame certain rogue frequencies in the extreme upper and lower registers. He also may considerably lower the overall levels of the cymbals in general so they don't eat up a bunch frequency space that the lead vocals will eventually need to shine through clearly. Cymbals can really cut into vocal diction if you don't watch it.

 
Not to be confrontational, but I believe quite a few engineers would disagree with your first sentence. Most engineers will edit drums for timing and check for hit consistency, replacement or hybridding of sounds before we'll even touch an eq. Once that's done, then we'll worry about eq and literally mixing the kit in with the rest of the instrumentation. Not all engineers have to deal with stuff like that. But most high end clients like some of the ones I work with, demand drum editing and replacement even though they have drummers you can set your watch by.
 
As for drummers that bash their kits....one of the most annoying things you can be faced with as an engineer working with drums, is a drummer that has no conviction in his/her hits. You literally have to replace hits like that when they fall short. I see a heck of a lot more drummers playing the wimp card than those that whack the drums like they should. It doesn't sound dynamic anymore...it sounds like <insert light hitting drummer of choice> attempting to play in the wrong band. The impact you lose with light hits when something shouldn't be light, is almost demoralizing.
 
This of course is mostly in rock and metal music, but even in fusion, blues and current country rock, there are serious hits going on in poppy songs and non-ballad types. The majority of radio songs have drum consistency where there are strong or even bashed hits going on, and it's not just due to extreme compression/limiting. Depending on the style of music, a lack of a serious whack can change the entire sound of the band/song negatively.
 

scottcmusicSo a drummer that insists on bashing the hell out of his kit is really just saying, "Screw the actual tune at hand, and look at me everyone!" It's no different than a lead guitar player insisting on lugging a wall of Marshalls to club gigs and running them all on eleven!

It depends on the situation as well as the material. If you've ever played with an "arena rock" drummer, this is how they play. Heck most hard rock drummers play like that and just about all metal drummers do. So it definitely has its place. It's part of the style and they bash the majority of their music unless it's a ballad. Kinda like if we took the razor sharp sounding guitars out of punk music, it wouldn't be punk anymore. The sounds help to make the style what it is, ya know? :)
 
It's tough in a club though because everything is too loud anyway. The majority of rooms aren't set up for a live band anyway. Some are so bad acoustically, it doesn't matter how low you try to go. The sound carries and it just bounces all over. Drums are loud, no one else can hear, we all start to turn up. Then of course you get wet napkins thrown at you by the club manager. LOL! I so remember those days!!! We have such a killer soundman now, we can go low and come through our monitors or in-ears. On another note...
 
One thing I can say....most home recordists mix their cymbals way too loud. They are supposed to be treated as percussive accents, not full blown instruments that should be as loud as a vocal or guitar track. Low pass those babies and lower them to where you can hear them, but not to where they barrel over things within the mix. The only cymbals that can get away with being a bit loud are hats and ride. Even there, it's easy to allow hats to be too loud...but they are acceptable as long as they are eq'd correctly and are not hissing like a snake. :)
 
-Danny