Helpful ReplyNeed assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop.

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mileskb
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2016/01/26 06:57:27 (permalink)

Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop.

I turn my back for a minute!!!  
 
The simple questions are...
  1. What is the latest "Producer" version of Sonar and how do I get there from Sonar 4 Producer.
  2. I used the Timeworks Compression and EQ extensively for many years (was packaged with Sonar XL ??).  What do I do with old projects that have those plugins addressed? 
For a variety of reasons, the last working version of Sonar I have is Sonar 4 producer on an XP machine.  It was just a few years ago, (or seemed like it anyway) but we have been in process of rebuilding the studio at a new location.  The plan was to upgrade to X1 then X3, but the studio wasn't ready and Windows 10 was coming out, so we held off.   We aren't quite there yet, but I need to start looking at some of my older projects, went online and my Cakewalk world turned upside down, and in talking to colleagues, for some reason it's been a mystery to them as well.
 
Anyway... I've been trying to catch up.  Was really hoping to talk to someone at NAMM, but there was no one to talk to, so here I am.  I see Craig is still around, he may recognize my name as I have been using Cakewalk since it was a DOS program.  Frankly after everything I'm reading I feel like I need to start from scratch to cut my losses...   but...  this has been a good community in the past, so I'd like the hive mind to weigh in on my two questions above.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
#1
Sidroe
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 08:22:34 (permalink)
I think you are correct in assuming to cut your losses. Sonar Platinum has developed so far from Producer and the X versions that you will find it will be almost like starting over. Needless to say, some people thought Producer or X was difficult to learn! Platinum has grown to have a VERY steep learning curve.
I do not mean to scare you. I just feel we need to make you aware that there will be a lot of work ahead to adapt to this new version of Sonar. What you know of Producer will help, but don't expect to just jump in and go to work. Good luck to you.

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#2
Wookiee
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 08:38:55 (permalink)
Did you have a forum sign on when using SONAR 4?

If so you need to get that reactivated you can try asking here

I
f not contact support and explain your history to them they should get you on the right path.
 
Sonar now has three versions
Platinum = Producer
Professional = ???????
Artist = Studio

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#3
AT
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 10:14:53 (permalink)
It is a new day - the versions are explicated above.  It is a different program, but most of the basic stuff still works the same (some of the mouse moves/clicks are different but much remains the same).  You shouldn't have much of a problem adjusting, tho it may take a little time (and it would no matter what 7-year old program you were used to).  Most users think the latest version is the best - SONAR 4 basically ends w/ SONAR 8.5 and the SONAR X series was different - skylight interface with a more ergonomic tool bar.  SONAR (no #s etc.) is based on the X series.
 
But the short answer is, I don't know what the process is to upgrade from SONAR 4.  No doubt you'll get some kind of upgrade pricing if you can connect to your old account - that too is all new.  Your best bet is to call the help #.  You might have to wait, but ...
 
Those Timework effects were cool, but you'll have the ProChannel instead.  If you have the old disk you can load the timeworks in - SONAR still does DXI.  I remember the TW stuff was good, but I don't think it will outclass the new software.
 
Oh, and welcome back.  I started using SONAR about 5.
 
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#4
Cactus Music
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 10:45:14 (permalink)
There was upgrade offers from ANY register version of Sonar to the new versions. 
 
If your in need of some new gear, there are many Roland and now Tascam products that ship with Sonar LE. That saved me over $150 off the list price.  I bought a Roland A49 Keyboard for only $120 and saved $150 when I upgraded LE to  X3

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#5
robert_e_bone
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 11:20:49 (permalink)
There was a declaration by Cakewalk that beginning with one of the X2 or X3 versions of Sonar, it would not run on anything less than Windows 7 with Service Pack 1.
 
Also - I am not sure if 32-bit DXi plugins will necessarily run on a 64-bit Windows, but that is really speculation on my part, as I don't use any 32-bit DXi plugins any longer (to the best of my awareness, anyways).  Cakewalk still has a small number of DX plugins, but I believe there was some internal rework by them to get them to where they would run in 64-bit OS environments.
 
That all being said, you CAN install both a 32-bit Sonar and a 64-bit Sonar on a given 64-bit capable computer running 64-bit Windows 7 with SP 1 or higher.
 
Windows 8.1 or 10 are also options, but in any case, you will want to do some checking for any needed drivers for things like hardware (midi controllers, audio interface) to make SURE there are indeed production released drivers for whatever version of Windows you will be moving to from the current XP.
 
Once you get a nice shiny new computer together, and if needed get rid of a bunch of the bloatware free trial crap and software not desired, you CAN download a free Sonar demo and it will let you test out the user interface and the Sonar audio engine.  There are some restrictions and limitations, but you could still get a pretty good idea of whether or not it is a good idea to move to one of the current versions.
 
You could probably also install whatever version of Sonar that you are/were running on the XP computer, along with any new version of Sonar you decide to move to.  That way, you would/should be able to access your older projects in THAT version, if for whatever reason you can't get them to open in say Platinum.
 
As always, these forums are chocked full of friendly and helpful folks to work with you on getting things squared away.
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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#6
scook
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 11:28:54 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
Also - I am not sure if 32-bit DXi plugins will necessarily run on a 64-bit Windows, but that is really speculation on my part, as I don't use any 32-bit DXi plugins any longer (to the best of my awareness, anyways).  Cakewalk still has a small number of DX plugins, but I believe there was some internal rework by them to get them to where they would run in 64-bit OS environments.
 

32bit DirectX plug-ins will run on 64bit Windows but DirectX plug-ins are host specific. IOW, 32bit DX plug-ins only run in 32bit hosts and 64bit DX plug-ins only run in 64bit hosts. It is possible to get some 32bit DX plug-ins to load in 64bit hosts by using a DX-to-VST wrapper and loading them via Bitbridge but I do not believe this will work for projects which already reference the plug-ins. In the case of legacy projects, the only solution to loading the projects with DX plug-ins intact is running 32bit SONAR.
 
When it comes to getting the discontinued plug-ins on a new PC, I am not sure if the SONAR 4 installer will run on a modern OS.
 
#7
Zargg
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 11:29:11 (permalink)
Hi, and welcome back.
I started with SONAR XL2.2, then upgraded to SONAR 4 Producer. From there I upgraded to X3 (which was quite a jump, but not too bad), and am now on Platinum.
With X3, and especially now on Platinum I feel like it is a pure joy to work with.
The basic buttons are the same, but there is SO much more, and on my end it is extremely stable.
If you take in a little at the time, you will be enjoying it as never before.
I do things now, that I never dreamed about in 2.2, or 4 
And as others have mentioned, the ProChannel stuff is way better than the old fx.
I think Cakewalk will get you sorted with regards to your old account. They did with me years ago, when I lost access to my old mail account.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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#8
mileskb
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 17:18:36 (permalink)
AT
I remember the TW stuff was good, but I don't think it will outclass the new software.
 



Regarding the TW stuff, it's not really a matter of good or not.  I'm sure there's something current that will outclass it, but problem is...  It's what was used so if I try to open any of that era projects, and it's not available, I loose 100's of hours of mastering work.
 
Not sue I have a forum login, but I did register my software.  I'm not terribly concerned about the learning curve as that happens with anything, more the "what do I do with the 100's of buns I have now that were all created on older technology?"  I later got into the habit of creating both final raw and processed tracks before mastering just in case something happened so that will help with some stuff.  I wouldn't expect new projects to be an issue.
 
I will try to reach out to them directly I guess and see what happens.   
#9
robert_e_bone
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/26 18:42:14 (permalink)
The Cakewalk folks have been quite active and responsive to account issues, and they made a point of committing themselves to doing so, which they done well at honoring.  :)
 
Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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#10
mudgel
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/27 02:20:54 (permalink)
You'll probably find that Sonar 4 projects open in the new version but obviously new versions might not open in Sonar 4.

In any case it's quite likely that Sonar 4 will run in Win 10. I had Sonar 6 run on Win 8.1 in compatibility mode.

You won't lose anything by trying. All Sonar versions coexist side by side quite happily. Just make sure to install the oldest one first so it doesn't override existing files.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#11
stevec
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/01/27 14:54:15 (permalink)
mileskb
 
Regarding the TW stuff, it's not really a matter of good or not.  I'm sure there's something current that will outclass it, but problem is...  It's what was used so if I try to open any of that era projects, and it's not available, I loose 100's of hours of mastering work.
 
...more the "what do I do with the 100's of buns I have now that were all created on older technology?"  I later got into the habit of creating both final raw and processed tracks before mastering just in case something happened so that will help with some stuff.  I wouldn't expect new projects to be an issue.




As scook mentioned above, in order to access 32bit DX plugins (including the Timeworks plugs) you'll need to install the 32bit version of SONAR.   You can have the 32bit and 64bit versions of SONAR installed side by side, using the 32bit version to access old projects and the 64bit version for new(er) projects.

SteveC
https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
 
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#12
mileskb
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/09 20:16:22 (permalink)
stevec
 
As scook mentioned above, in order to access 32bit DX plugins (including the Timeworks plugs) you'll need to install the 32bit version of SONAR.   You can have the 32bit and 64bit versions of SONAR installed side by side, using the 32bit version to access old projects and the 64bit version for new(er) projects.



Is there any real advantage to the 64 bit version?  I know what it says on paper, but the reality is, 32 bit programs tend to run better/faster than their 64 bit counterparts, especially on a 64 bit operating system.  Specific programs I use such as MS Office programs or more heavy lifting with Photoshop, the 32 bit versions load and run noticeably faster and are more stable.  As I used to consistently record 8 tracks at once on an old XP machine with 8 GB of RAM, I'm thinking I might be better suited to run the 32bit version and then I can at least run most of my old plugins at least until I can replace them if necessary with newer ones.  
 
It also appears that this is my old account as I see my Sonar ver 3 is listed in "My Software" from 2003.  Not sure why 4 isn't listed.   
 
Again, thanks for the insights..
#13
mileskb
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 01:25:38 (permalink)
Does anyone have access to the Timeworks plugins as standalone files.  They were bundled with Sonar 2.0 XL I believe, but I can't seem to get around the Direct X 8.1 check that halts the install of 2.0 XL.
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Strryder
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 04:06:43 (permalink)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 04:36:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/10 07:10:09
mileskb
stevec
 
As scook mentioned above, in order to access 32bit DX plugins (including the Timeworks plugs) you'll need to install the 32bit version of SONAR.   You can have the 32bit and 64bit versions of SONAR installed side by side, using the 32bit version to access old projects and the 64bit version for new(er) projects.



Is there any real advantage to the 64 bit version?  I know what it says on paper, but the reality is, 32 bit programs tend to run better/faster than their 64 bit counterparts, especially on a 64 bit operating system.  Specific programs I use such as MS Office programs or more heavy lifting with Photoshop, the 32 bit versions load and run noticeably faster and are more stable.  As I used to consistently record 8 tracks at once on an old XP machine with 8 GB of RAM, I'm thinking I might be better suited to run the 32bit version and then I can at least run most of my old plugins at least until I can replace them if necessary with newer ones.  
 
It also appears that this is my old account as I see my Sonar ver 3 is listed in "My Software" from 2003.  Not sure why 4 isn't listed.   
 
Again, thanks for the insights..


You'll find it was a total waste of time using 8Gb of RAM on a 32 bit system - this is the GREAT limitation of a 32 bit system, it will only read 4Gb at best, in practice quite a bit less as the OS takes what it needs before Sonar is even loaded.
 
No, go 64 bit throughout and fit as much matching RAM as your motherboard will allow.
 
 

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#16
mileskb
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 12:54:13 (permalink)
Thanks for the inputs and insights folks.   I am going to go 64bit...   
 
Interesting tidbit..  I'm actually reviving my old machine with a couple of hybrid drives as I don't want to setup a full new machine for another 6-9 months.  In the process, that old XP machine from my studio only had 2 GB RAM !?!?!
I routinely recorded 8 tracks, but really only when I did drums or tranfers to/from ADAT other than that is was just a couple at a time.  I recorded/mix and mastered several albums on that setup with a 200 mHZ AMD Processor and 2GB RAM using a Layla 24/96 interface.  
 
Anyway... all my old projects were recording on that machine without issue so I just need a new interface unfortunately and with new drives it should hold me just fine while I get my chops back up.
 
I was just really really surprised it had only 2GB of ram... but I guess that was a lot in 2005. Funny how we (at least me) sometimes take it for granted.
 
 
#17
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 17:23:57 (permalink)
In hindsight, my old system (WinXP 32 bit) could and did run a 75 track project of Audio & Midi containing multiple, unbounced V-Vocal clips, extensive automation and a vast quantity of fx plugs, all without even blinking.
 
So I'm not going to knock the platform for what it was, it's just that things have moved on, mostly for the better, and it's a 64 bit world of computers laden with 32/64 Gb RAM

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#18
mileskb
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/10 17:45:47 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
it's just that things have moved on, mostly for the better, and it's a 64 bit world of computers laden with 32/64 Gb RAM



True dat !!!  Just funny to think about.  My first MIDI projects were on a Commodore64, first automated gig using MIDI was with an old IBM PS/2, amber screen etc..  LOL..  
 
No matter how fast they make computers, and how much ram they have...  the absolute fastest you can record a 3.5 minute track in real time is...... 3.5 minutes..  and the fastest you can listen to it in real time is...   also 3.5 minutes.
 
 
#19
stevec
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/11 14:11:21 (permalink)
Same here - WinXP with 2GB RAM ran lots of projects loaded with audio tracks + plugins, and MIDI tracks mostly using outboard gear.
 
However, when it comes to VST instruments that's a different story...  loading an instance or two of Kontakt using a relatively modern orchestral library (or really anything) would quickly show just where those 32bit limitations lie.   
 

SteveC
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
 
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Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
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#20
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Need assistance and info to get back into the Sonar loop. 2016/02/11 17:30:14 (permalink)
Absolutely.
 
I could manage exactly 14 instances of EWQLSO Silver version before it all came to a grinding halt.
 
Now I run EWQLSO Platinum in 64 bit inside a 135 track template which uses about 9Gb of RAM before a single note is written.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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