michael diemer
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Best Way To Do Reverb?
I have Sonar 8.5, but I don't think it matters as this should apply to any version. I seem to do reverb differently every time I start a project. Sometimes I use the native reverb on a sample library, plus Spaces; sometimes just Spaces. Sometimes I put a send on each synth in Console View, and adjust the amount of verb going to the Spaces bus; sometimes I put Spaces on each synth. Is there a best-practice way to do this, or is this another case of "There's a lot of ways to do this?"
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arlen2133
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 22:11:03
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Michael, There ARE indeed a lot of ways to do this, but it's more about what you want to accomplish by adding reverb. Are you trying to give some space or airiness to a track??? Using reverb as an insert can help there (not the only solution, but A solution) Do you need to put multiple instruments in a room or space? Try a verb bus and "send" each instrument to the bus. Reverb as an effect? Try a bus (or Aux track) and automate... FWIW, find one (or two) ways to do it that you can call up quickly. Make them part of your workflow and then experiment with automation. It's a lot easier to work with a few ways then to try to learn all the ways...
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Anderton
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 22:23:20
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arlen2133 pretty much nailed it. I'd just add that we've been conditioned on what to expect when we hear sound in a acoustic space. I prefer the "bus to reverb" concept to create a cohesive space. I feel that too many reverbs create a sound that, consciously or not, we may hear as "phony."
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arlen2133
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 22:26:53
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Anderton arlen2133 pretty much nailed it.
Aww thanks Craig.. It's just Arlen though.. Plain ole Arlen.
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michael diemer
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 22:38:21
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Thanks Arlen and Craig. To be more specific in what I'm trying to do, I compose for orchestra. (nothing special, just a hobbyist). but I need to blend different libraries, currently GPO4, EWSO Gold, Dim Pro, Cinematic Strings, and soon to be, GPO5, which will be out sometime this month. I was using Vienna Special Edition, but gave up on it because it just doesn't blend well and causes other problems. Each of these has its own native reverb. I usually try to get all these native verbs equal as possible, then put them all in Spaces on a bus. EWSO is a wet library, GPO is dry, but has very nice convolution reverb, so I try to get it equal to EWSO. But sometimes I will not use the native verb, and instead use just Spaces, with sends. sometimes I will group all the woodwinds on one synth; all the brass on another, etc. Or I will just use one send for each synth, as all instruments on that synth pretty much have the same verb or lack of it. I know I seem to be making it more complicated than it really is, but when dealing with the orchestra, it really is more complicated. But there must be a way of reducing all this complexity to one basic approach that will work on all my projects.
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michael diemer
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 22:57:43
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I found this from one of the other threads listed above. It's from IMF in Sweden. I hope it's OK to quote him: "Let each string library track have it's own sends - since you need individual control.These sends go to a reverb bus for strings. The return of this reverb bus go to strings submix bus. So what you have then is ability to raise submix bus fader and still get the same reverb mix - what is usually handled through VCA groups in some daws. In this manner you don't need that. And if you want to raise reverb individually on a single library you do that as well. Or group them if you want to move them all. There are very advanced abilities in Sonar for grouping - if to move by dB or movement etc." This makes sense to me. One of the problems I am having is with volumes getting out of control. This seems like a good way to deal with that.
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arlen2133
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/11 23:20:40
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I think that can work and is pretty much on the basis of what Craig and I were describing. The only added feature would be the submix bus. Remember you can do all of this via an Aux Track and simply put that Aux/Reverb submix track in the folder with the library. Keeps things nice and neat.
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MarioD
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 09:34:48
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I work a lot like Arlen and Craig. I never use the patch reverbs, I keep them dry. I send them all to a reverb bus with what ever reverb I select set to 100% wet. Then in the console view, I find it best to do this there, I select how much reverb I want to add to each instrument(s), i.e. usually more on the high strings and less on the bass strings. This makes it sound more realistic IMHO. YMMV.
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Hatstand
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 09:48:33
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One other advantage of using a centralized resource for reverb is processing overhead. Reverbs will eat up resources so having one instance on a bus or aux track is preferable to several instances scattered around.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 10:22:52
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Reverb can also benefit HUGELY if you EQ it, either before the plugin or after, sometimes even both. You can also compress the output of the reverb to enhance/suppress the tail, increase the overall level, anything really.
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michael diemer
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 12:32:10
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All great suggestions. OK, so last night I started doing this: Since East West Gold is my wettest library, I figure I need to set everything to that. Now, the East West "Play" synth has a reverb called EW Hall, which happens to be the same as Northeast Hall in Spaces (which is also by EW). So, I figure that EW has already figured out the right amount of reverb for each instrument, and indeed, if I turn on the EW Hall reverb for each inst. on the Play synth, it all sounds good (except for the timpani, they have Dark Abbey on that and it's way too much, so I set that to EW Hall also). Then, I put the other synths (Aria, Dim Pro etc) on Spaces, and set that to NE Hall (again, same as EW Hall, but here I'm using it with Spaces, whereas with the EW inst's. I'm using EW Hall right on the Play synth - again, EW Hall on the Play synth equals NE Hall on Spaces reverb). This is giving me a good balance so far. I'm considering adding a bit of native verb on the other synths, to see if I can fine tune things a bit. And I need to decide whether to put Spaces on each synth, or send them to a bus. One advantage of doing it this way is that I now don't need to group inst's on different synths, so I can use fewer instances of each synth. That way the resource drain is less, and I can afford to put Spaces right on the synth. It seems to sound better that way. Anyway, I'll let you know how it's going, and thanks for all the help.
post edited by michael diemer - 2016/02/12 13:03:27
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jkoseattle
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 18:48:48
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michael diemer ...Since East West Gold is my wettest library....
Not to make things more complicated, but I just discovered this myself in EWSO and might make things easier on you: In the Player view for your EW instrument, down the center it shows all those key switches, right? Well at the bottom of most of them is something called "Release Trails". Uncheck the boxes next to those, and all of a sudden you lose all that "wetness" and have plain, dry sounds to which you can add your own effects! Woo hoo! I was so excited when I found that. I had actually ponied up something like $100 for the "close mic" library, (no longer available as a standalone purchase btw) because it had drier sounds, but I might not have needed to had I discovered the Release Trails thing.
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arlen2133
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 18:51:35
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Sounds like you have a plan in motion Michael. Let us know how it turns out (post examples!)
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michael diemer
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/12 21:09:55
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jkoseattle
michael diemer ...Since East West Gold is my wettest library....
Not to make things more complicated, but I just discovered this myself in EWSO and might make things easier on you: In the Player view for your EW instrument, down the center it shows all those key switches, right? Well at the bottom of most of them is something called "Release Trails". Uncheck the boxes next to those, and all of a sudden you lose all that "wetness" and have plain, dry sounds to which you can add your own effects! Woo hoo! I was so excited when I found that. I had actually ponied up something like $100 for the "close mic" library, (no longer available as a standalone purchase btw) because it had drier sounds, but I might not have needed to had I discovered the Release Trails thing.
Yeah, I know about those things, but could never decide what to do about them. I'll try turning them off per your advice, Arlen.
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michael diemer
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/13 00:59:25
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Actually, I like it better with the tails on. Maybe because i'm used to it?
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Kamikaze
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/13 01:01:28
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https://youtu.be/Q4Hirnibn3M?t=327 I've been taking this approach, but I don't do orchestral samples and compositions. I have 3 sends 2 3 busses, Early reflections on one, medium hall on the other and large(ish) hall on the third. I'm liking how I can set sounds up at depths in the space, pulling close sounds out of the large reverb, and letting others sit there without conflicting with the close reverb. I used to in my hardware days, have a reverb send and a delay send. I've gone off delay to a large extent, but where I do want it, it's usually on the one sound source, so I inserts works better here.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Best Way To Do Reverb?
2016/02/13 04:40:16
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Kamikaze I used to in my hardware days, have a reverb send and a delay send. I've gone off delay to a large extent, but where I do want it, it's usually on the one sound source, so I inserts works better here.
Hmm. I've read many threads recently on here and other forums where the tendency seems to be moving away from delays and back to reverb.
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