Routing to Reverb Question

I erroneously thought the POST button in console view or inspector SENDS module would send the track's signal After or Before the FX module.    Seems that it doesn't, rather has to do with before or after the faders. 
 
So:   how do I route a track's signal very simply in two parts:  part 1, a reverb tailored just for that track and part 2, the same signal without any per-track reverb sent to an Aux reverb for an ambiance that is similar for a group of tracks?   I'm sure it's another dumb question, but having finally realized I've been reverbing a reverb, I'd like to improve. 
 
If it matters, this is an Instrument track (one of the outputs from Kontakt, VSTi).

Thanks for the info, and I'll check out your video channels.   But what you seem to be saying is that to get a "per-track" reverb I'd need another bus for every track?   That would add up to a lot of buses!  
 

Not unexpectedly this has been discussed before: here's a brief thread,  http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sends-and-busses-and-things-m3319362.aspx#3319362
 
For orchestral work, I like the "Virtual Sound Stage" plugin, which I've been using on many instrument tracks in order to place different instruments in different places --- but that seems to be defeating the attempt to also run each instrument's sound into an overall ambiant reverb on an Aux bus, since that Aux reverb, it turns out, is reverbing the output from VSS plugin as well as the original dry signal.   
 
More ideas welcome. 

Ok so using two aux tracks seems to work, with no inserts in the main instrument track, the volume fader turned all the way to zero, one aux track having the per track reverb at full send level and the other holding an ambiant reverb at a reduced send level, grouping together many tracks.   
 
Seems like it would be so easy to have all the per-track stuff ordered in any way you choose, so that a send could come before an FX entry ... but what do I know.  

Kev999

williamcopper
I erroneously thought the POST button in console view or inspector SENDS module would send the track's signal After or Before the FX module...

 
I used to assume that too originally. It would be useful if it worked that way.

you can do that using parrallel processing, for example make a copy of the track and send this dry track to the reverb and blend it in with the processed track.

williamcopper
Thanks for the info, and I'll check out your video channels.   But what you seem to be saying is that to get a "per-track" reverb I'd need another bus for every track?   That would add up to a lot of buses!  
 

Hi. I would say no, unless you want a specific reverb on each track. 
I have usually one or two reverb buses (Hall, plate etc), and route tracks in question to desired reverb.
All the best.

Again, I headed this way because of how Virtual SoundStage (VSS) works; its logic seemed to suit the kind of big orchestral stuff I often do, where there are many individual instruments, all needing the same 'room' but needing to be placed differently around that room.   So putting an instance of VSS on every track, up to 80-100 of them, seemed to work fine -- VSS somehow combines them all into one unit with 80-100 individual placements.    So my goal was to do that but in addition, since some VST instruments have built-in reverb that does not fit well in VSS, route all sound to one or more specially configured ambiant reverbs.     In a sense, VSS placement substitutes for "panning those sends"? 

 
It looks to me like VSS only simulates early reflections to provide the positioning information of each instrument.  A more general (and typical) reverb is still needed for the background ambience/reverberation.  So for each instrument there's 1) the instrument itself, 2) its early reflections generated by its own instance of VSS (which you don't want to reverberate further), and 3) its contribution to the background reverberation (its late reflections).
 
So what William needs (as he has pointed out) is to send the raw instrument out to the general reverb before the signal hits the VSS in the instrument's fx bin where the early reflections are produced (and that signal will then continue on its way out of the track as usual, but not to any reverb busses).  So a pre-fx-bin send.  Is that possible ?
 

Apparently the answer is no:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Mixing.07.html
 
 

Or simply invest in a reverb plugin that lets you control the Early Reflections and Tail independently of each other.

Bristol_Jonesey
Or simply invest in a reverb plugin that lets you control the Early Reflections and Tail independently of each other.

That's what I meant, do none of Sonar's standard offerings allow this?! 
 
And yes, Williamcopper, PC is an alternative path, although technically it's in series with the FX bin and you can put the whole thing before or after the bin. You can also put an FX chain (which is kinda like a regular bin) inside a PC chain if you need some modules before or after your VSTs specifically. I think both PC and bin are pre-send though. It would be nice if we could insert a send like a VST wherever we want in the chain. 

Bristol_Jonesey
Or simply invest in a reverb plugin that lets you control the Early Reflections and Tail independently of each other.

Sure you can do this manually, and you could go even a step further and play with delays, pan, phase, eq, etc, and accomplish your own positioning.
 
I expect that VSS attempts to do all this for you.  I like the idea.
 

Sanderxpander
It would be really strange if you take care to carefully position each instrument and then destroy that imaging by putting them all through a reverb as if they're in the same spot.

I imagine you'll only destroy the imaging if you have too much overall reverb.  The instrument itself (going through VSS) should not go on to a reverb.  I see VSS as just providing more control on what happens within the space.  Things will have to be balanced to achieve the right effect.