Helpful ReplyFinally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well...

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AllanH
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/20 16:37:33 (permalink)
thepianist53
... I'm thinking maybe Albion One would be a great library and a decent value. ...

Possibly. I have both AlbionOne and Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. At some point I wrote a comparison (I'll see if I can find it). Both are excellent, but in very different ways. I have to say that I find 90% of what's in Albion One to be of no use whatsoever. I only use the instruments, and none of the special effects.
 
Edited for clarity.
post edited by AllanH - 2016/02/20 18:31:21

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#31
AllanH
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/20 16:46:00 (permalink)
After extensive negotiation with a robot from Google, here is the thread I was thinking of. Not as good as I thought. It's the second post in particular, I thought might be of help to you.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Review-of-installing-EWQL-HO-Diamond-with-iLok-Machine-License-m3323321.aspx
 
 
post edited by AllanH - 2016/02/20 17:00:10

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#32
AllanH
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/20 16:59:18 (permalink)
Possibly off topic: Another fairly flexible choice is the new Miroslav Philharmonics 2 from IK-Multimedia. It's different from the two you consider, but just so happens to be very keyboard-centric. Expression if often velocity triggered, which is something a pianist naturally finds playable. It's predecessors (MP1 and SampleTank 3) were my first instrumental libraries.
 

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DRanck
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/20 20:30:50 (permalink)
 I have both AlbionOne and Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. At some point I wrote a comparison (I'll see if I can find it). Both are excellent, but in very different ways

 
Allan -
 
That was very well put and the chef vs. ingredients analogy is appropriate. Which is precisely why I keep coming back to HO - I can make it do what I want to do (admittedly with effort). I also own Albion One but usually prefer HO for what I want to do. That doesn't mean Albion One is bad or inferior - it's different. It's a great library if it fits your needs.
 
- Dave

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#34
thepianist65
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/21 12:12:35 (permalink)
Thanks for the thread, I've read it, and it was very interesting. I remain rather partial to something other than EW's stuff. I keep experimenting with it, but if I have to work that hard just to get it right, it's probably not for me. I'm sure it gets easier and you can set up templates, etc., but I don't enjoy that type of tinkering, I prefer playing, and focusing on melody, harmony, etc. The engineering part of it is important, and I spend a great deal of time on it, but it's still the least enjoyable part of the whole project, But my philosophy is: garbage in, garbage out--if the song and the performance is no good, no software will cover it up. If there is great musicianship and a wonderful composition/song, even a lo-fi recording is memorable and worth a listen
That being said, I'm learning a lot through these various posts, and enjoy the thread. 

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#35
DRanck
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/21 12:39:06 (permalink)
The engineering part of it is important, and I spend a great deal of time on it, but it's still the least enjoyable part of the whole project

 
I completely understand what you are saying. That's why it is good there are different kinds of libraries available for different people. Personally I don't think of the work needed to tweak an orchestral library to make it sound "alive" as engineering. In my thinking, I have divided the overall process up into 3 stages: Composition, Performance and Production. To me, working with CCs and using just the right articulations is part of the performance phase. There is no way I can mimic a section of violins just by playing notes on a keyboard - there are just too many nuances of performance to capture in real time. That means I need to spend serious time doing things like getting the length of a portamento just right or adding Expression (CC11) to create subtle swells when the string section holds long notes. Yeah it is a lot of work, but I find the rewards are great, too.
 
That said, I really do understand what you mean and where you are coming from. I had another thought too: Have you looked at any of Kirk Hunter's stuff? Maybe it would be something that would work better in your workflow.

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#36
thepianist65
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/21 16:20:20 (permalink)
I have Kirk Hunter's Spotlight Strings, not good for a full orchestra, but very good for smaller sounding ensembles or solo stuff, yes. 
I say if you can hear the nuances of the orchestra to that level than of course you should do everything you can to be satisfied and excited about the music you are creating. And I try to do the same. I'm not sure I could tell the difference in the samples we are discussing. For example, I played many a "real" Rhodes piano back in the day. And I sold Steinway Pianos, have played them many many times over. Yet the virtual ones I use now are terrific, I don't really hear or feel any appreciable from the originals--but others I know insist  "its not the same." Same with Hammonds, etc. I have standards, but I guess they are kind of low, ha ha...

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Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
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#37
MBGantt
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/21 21:25:00 (permalink)
I have Albion I in addition to my EW stuff. They are very different as others have said. I prefer EW to Albion but Albion may be what you are looking for. Great sound, simple keyswitches and all articulations in one patch. It doesn't do all the things that the EW stuff does but it can produce great results. I usually use it to layer with my EW instruments for a bigger sound. The only thing is IIRC it almost never goes on sale so you may be disappointed there.  
#38
dcumpian
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/22 08:27:05 (permalink)
I do what David does a bit differently. I compose first, adding melodies and harmonies until I have the song more or less fleshed out. I do this by selecting some basic articulations, no more than 3 or 4, and using those to compose with. Once I am done, I go back and select the actual articulations I want to use for each element, moving parts around to get everything where it needs to be. This way I don't get distracted into trying to find the right articulation and moving notes around to get proper phrasing until after the "artistic" side of the project is done.
 
I'm sure everyone works differently, but once you've found what works for you, you'll be able to master more complex libraries and get the sound you want.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

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jamesyoyo
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/23 10:43:09 (permalink)
I joined Composer Cloud over last Summer.But then I upgraded to Windows 10 and I cannot get the iLok software running AT ALL. I had to cancel my subscription.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/23 11:11:00 (permalink)
jamesyoyo
I joined Composer Cloud over last Summer.But then I upgraded to Windows 10 and I cannot get the iLok software running AT ALL. I had to cancel my subscription.


No problem at all here but I don't use a physical iLok, just the computer based licence.
 

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AllanH
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/24 08:28:34 (permalink)
jamesyoyo
I joined Composer Cloud over last Summer.But then I upgraded to Windows 10 and I cannot get the iLok software running AT ALL. I had to cancel my subscription.



Just in case: there is a well-known issue with the PACE licensing manager that needs to run as a "delayed start" services on Windows 10 for some.

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DRanck
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/25 15:04:02 (permalink)
I've been fortunate in iLok works fine after a Win 10 upgrade. Still not a fan. I should switch to the hardware license.

Dan - what you describe is very close to my workflow. Though lately I've been composing just the main theme and then completely fleshing it out with articulations and CCs. Then I move on to other sections. Probably won't work like that all of the time though.

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The way that I've always gone about making music, the rule of thumb, has just been to make what I love.
Amy Lee
 
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dcumpian
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/02/25 16:20:19 (permalink)
DRanck
I've been fortunate in iLok works fine after a Win 10 upgrade. Still not a fan. I should switch to the hardware license.

Dan - what you describe is very close to my workflow. Though lately I've been composing just the main theme and then completely fleshing it out with articulations and CCs. Then I move on to other sections. Probably won't work like that all of the time though.



Yes, I hear what you are saying. For me, a lot of my workflow depends in large part on how "jazzed" i am about the section I'm currently working on. If I'm really digging a section, I'll stick with it and spend a lot more time before moving on to other sections. It really depends on the song. But I do try to avoid getting too deep into the weeds 'cause I know it'll just kill my momentum.
 
Dan
 

Mixing is all about control.
 
My music:
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#44
Sooperbohl
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 11:14:07 (permalink)
I am not yet sold on this new cloud model.  I have several EW packages and prefer that model.   I would rather load it on my drive and fight to get it to work that way. Maybe I'm just old school but subscription services are for the birds!


Soop

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#45
Fleer
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 12:07:13 (permalink)
Same here, Soop. The cloud option is interesting to check out libraries for a month, though, as an elaborate demo session.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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TerraSin
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 12:12:23 (permalink)
Sooperbohl
I am not yet sold on this new cloud model.  I have several EW packages and prefer that model.   I would rather load it on my drive and fight to get it to work that way. Maybe I'm just old school but subscription services are for the birds!


Soop

Not sure what you mean by this. When you subscribe to cloud, you download the libraries to your drive and install them as normal. The only change is that you have a monthly license on iLok manager rather than a permanent one which expires if you get off subscription and won't let you use the library any longer. It's not like they stream the sounds over the internet.
#47
Fleer
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 12:23:55 (permalink)
I understood that Soop just wants to own the libs to use them whenever he wants.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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bapu
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 12:37:14 (permalink)
I did four months of demoing and came to the conclusion that I wanted to own Spaces and got it at JRRShop for $126.
 
I was interested in the new drummer stuff but decided it was time to stop the madness of new drumpler purchases (and their lack of remapping made it a no brainer).
 
I'm off the subscription now and have no plans to return. I have what I need from EW. 
#49
kitekrazy1
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/25 19:48:57 (permalink)
Fleer
I understood that Soop just wants to own the libs to use them whenever he wants.




Me too.  Sometimes with subscription models you can lose track of how many you have and don't realize there's quite a bit of money coming out of your account every month.

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BrianSzep
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Re: Finally bit on EW Composer Cloud--oh well... 2016/03/28 00:32:57 (permalink)
Hi,
 
You may want to check out Mike Verta's video if you haven't seen it. It may help you get "the sound" your looking for out of Hollywood Orchestra.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OktpoOztRvQ&list=PLha8jec_dVTZc190Q9YcrXZ-iJfDZGIgj
 
Brian

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#51
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