Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent

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Kev999
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2016/02/22 20:00:15 (permalink)
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Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent

I have a lot of old projects in which I need to replace a missing DXi softsynth with its VSTi equivalent. Obviously replacing a synth is easy, but unfortunately the parameter settings get lost in the process. If possible I would like the original settings to be transferred over.

Is this feasible? I don't know but I'm guessing that there is no difference in the way that the parameter settings for DX and VST for a given softsynth are stored in the project file, so retrieving them and applying them to the replacement synth would not be a problem.

Without this feature I am doomed to spending a lot of hours moving back and forth between my current setup and my old Windows XP platform (which I am hanging on to mainly because of this issue) in order to get old projects up and running again. It's a tedious process that I would prefer to avoid.

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    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/23 04:32:15 (permalink)
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    Kev999
    Is this feasible? I don't know but I'm guessing that there is no difference in the way that the parameter settings for DX and VST for a given softsynth are stored in the project file, so retrieving them and applying them to the replacement synth would not be a problem.

    Either the settings are the same is plug-in dependent. There is no standards for saving settings and there are "black box" for DAWs.

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    #2
    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/23 14:20:50 (permalink)
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    azslow3
    Either the settings are the same is plug-in dependent. There is no standards for saving settings and there are "black box" for DAWs.

     
    That should not really matter. I just meant that there would not be any difference for any individual synth. For example, parameter settings that were saved and stored within the cwp file for Dimension Pro DXi could be applied to Dimension Pro VSTi when it is loaded as a replacement.
    post edited by Kev999 - 2016/02/23 14:36:08

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    #3
    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/23 15:36:21 (permalink)
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    Kev999
    azslow3
    Either the settings are the same is plug-in dependent. There is no standards for saving settings and there are "black box" for DAWs.

    That should not really matter. I just meant that there would not be any difference for any individual synth. For example, parameter settings that were saved and stored within the cwp file for Dimension Pro DXi could be applied to Dimension Pro VSTi when it is loaded as a replacement.

    Either that matters or not is relatively easy to check... I do not have DXi and VSTi versions of some plug-in, but you can check yourself.
     
    In the Cakewalk Plug-in manager (Utilities menu) export 2 SPP files, one from DSi and one from VSTi, with single what you think equivalent preset (I know you can not make presets absolutely identical, there are too many parameters, but may be there are some factory presets which should be the same...). Now compare these 2 binary files. If your theory is true, apart from some bytes at the beginning they should be equivalent.
     
    If you find them more or less equivalent, next step will be conversation from one SPP to another. I can try to do this (if you upload both files somewhere). If after importing converted DXi preset VSTi version will be able to load it, than you are right, at least for that plug-in.
     
    The next step will then be hacking CWP files or convince CW to do this. With the proof it is possible with SPP, CW can not answer like me in my first reply.
     
    But I am skeptical at the moment 

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    #4
    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/24 00:30:35 (permalink)
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    I have never saved presets using Plugin Manager (but will try it later). I always use the synth's GUI and save as a program. Every such program that I have saved from a DXi synth has always loaded successfully in its equivalent VSTi, even when the VSTi was a later version and not exactly identical. I have done this many times with the following synths:
     
    Rapture
    Dim Pro
    Z3ta+
    NI Battery 3
    NI B4II
    IK SampleTank 2.5
    IK Philharmonik
     
     

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    #5
    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/24 04:24:45 (permalink)
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    You are right with the good way to create perfectly the same presets, I am away from away synth and forgot that option
     
    But the rest is still true. The "Program" you save inside plug-in is the way to transfer settings between plug-in incarnations and versions, so logically plug-ins are prepared to deal with that. MS Word is able to read many versions of .doc files, but that does not mean all of them have the same format.
     
    What you get as "Cakewalk preset" and save as .spp in Plug-in Manager is how Sonar (or any other DAW) see the settings. I do not say it IS different. But it CAN be different since the plug-in can assume a DAW will not mix presets for any 2 plug-ins with different IDs (and DXi has different schema for such IDs then VSTi). Using MS Word analogy, nowhere is written that some internal auto-saving format can be understood by other Word version.
     
    But as I wrote before, please create 2 spp with the same Program and we can have a look.

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    #6
    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/24 15:23:09 (permalink)
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    azslow3
    In the Cakewalk Plug-in manager (Utilities menu) export 2 SPP files, one from DSi and one from VSTi, with single what you think equivalent preset (I know you can not make presets absolutely identical, there are too many parameters, but may be there are some factory presets which should be the same...). Now compare these 2 binary files. If your theory is true, apart from some bytes at the beginning they should be equivalent.
     
    If you find them more or less equivalent, next step will be conversation from one SPP to another. I can try to do this (if you upload both files somewhere). If after importing converted DXi preset VSTi version will be able to load it, than you are right, at least for that plug-in.

     
    OK. I will look into this at the weekend.

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    #7
    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/28 01:39:47 (permalink)
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    azslow3
    ...In the Cakewalk Plug-in manager (Utilities menu) export 2 SPP files, one from DSi and one from VSTi...

     
    I'm not sure how to proceed. The Export button is greyed out for almost all of the softsynths. And I've searched all the drives for .spp files and found none at all.

    I don't really know anything about this Import/Export Presets feature, so I went to look it up in the Sonar manual. But I couldn't find any mention of it there.

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    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/02/28 17:02:59 (permalink)
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    I do not have "real" Sonar these 2 weeks. But you should first save at least one "Preset" (the top of plug-in UI window), then it should appear available for "Export...".

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    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/03/05 19:26:12 (permalink)
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    azslow3
    ...you should first save at least one "Preset" (the top of plug-in UI window), then it should appear available for "Export...".

     
    I tried this. Unfortunately these presets have a different file extension, i.e. FXP rather than SPP. Also, the drop down menu with the save & load options is only present in the VST versions and doesn't exist the the DX versions.

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    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/03/05 20:32:39 (permalink)
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    I am back at home, and at least in TTS-1, Cyclone and other DXi I see Cakewalk preset is there (since Cakewalk has the.  And the result can be exported as SPP in the manager
     
    May be you are using VST menu? Cakewalk preset management is on the left side of it, with the name, next/previous, save and delete buttons.

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    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/03/05 21:53:06 (permalink)
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    azslow3
    May be you are using VST menu? Cakewalk preset management is on the left side of it, with the name, next/previous, save and delete buttons.

     
    Yes I was using the VST menu earlier.
     
    On clicking the save button, there is no indication that it has saved anything or where it has been saved to. Clicking it again brings up the message "Overwrite existing preset?" with no option to rename the preset.
     
    Anyway I have now managed to export an ssp file from both the DXi and VSTi versions of DimPro v1.2 (although the name of each preset was called "No Preset" and I couldn't change this). Unfortunately my attempts to export/import from one to the other were unsuccessful. Message dialog box said: "The file does not contain valid presets for the selected plug-in(s)". This doesn't look promising.
     

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    #12
    azslow3
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/03/06 04:08:54 (permalink)
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    With "No Preset" you are getting closer... Here you should click/double click to enter the new name!
    Than you can "Save", I normally press it again to be sure (with overwrite).
     
    These presets are saved internally by Sonar. Once saved, you can work with them using Cakewalk Plug-in Manager from utilities menu. You can import/export/manage all of them at one place. You can export all presets for one plug-in into one SPP file, quite good approach for backup/transfer. Another advantage is key/control surface binding to change presets, plug-in independent way. Especially useful for plug-ins which have no own binding for that.

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    #13
    Kev999
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    Re: Transfer settings when replacing DXi with VSTi equivalent 2016/07/03 03:41:55 (permalink)
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    Before all you non-DX users dismiss this proposal, please consider that DXi to VSTi migration is not the only situation where a plugin's settings need to be transferred. There is also:
    • 32-bit VST to 64-bit VST
    • VST2 to VST3

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