Windows 10 Experience with Plat

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brconflict
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2016/02/29 15:27:16 (permalink)

Windows 10 Experience with Plat

Had a recording session on Windows 10 this past weekend. 18 tracks at once, and many overdubs. No issues with Windows 10. However, I did have a weird Audio Drop-Out Toaster alert. occur frequently when two Projects were open, and I was going back and forth between them. This would happen, even after I disable the Audio engine.
 
Aside from that, smooth sailing!
 
For you Windows10 users: Get an SSD. It does boot slower than 8.1, and sometimes opening Sonar projects is slower in Windows 10 by my tests. So, an SSD drive will help.

Brian
 
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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/02/29 15:47:18 (permalink)
    Were the two projects different sample rates - I think someone else posted about something similar.

    Dave
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    #2
    brconflict
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/02/29 21:25:02 (permalink)
    dwardzala
    Were the two projects different sample rates - I think someone else posted about something similar.


    Actually, yes, they were. Thanks for that thought.

    Brian
     
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    tenfoot
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/02/29 21:57:06 (permalink)
    It would be great if someone from Cakewalk would notice this particular problem.
     
    This also happens with two projects of the same sample rate. It has only happened since platinum - doesn't happen in X3 on the same system with identical drivers.  It also happens on Windows 7, so it is not OS dependant. I have also reproduced it on 2 different systems with different interfaces, so it is not exclusive to a particular driver. Despite having spent a very long time trying different settings, eliminating plugins etc, I am yet to get any closer at all to the cause. I have just gotten used to hitting the space bar 3 times when switching between projects!
     
    Some people report a noise like a short sample looping or buzzing when restarting playback after switching between projects, others the audio dropout toaster popup. I've had both.
     
    There is a thread about it in the depths of the problem reports somewhere, I posted a thread back in December, and a couple of other threads have come and gone as well. It just doesn't seem to be quite common enough to get traction on the forum:(
     
     
     

    Bruce.
     
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    #4
    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 08:54:34 (permalink)
    I think Noel mentioned in another thread that the audio engine pauses "momentarily" so the interface can adjust to the different settings in a project.  That is what is generating the drop out "toast."
     
    This obviously doesn't explain same sample rate issues. 

    Dave
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    #5
    brconflict
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 10:43:13 (permalink)
    And as far as sample rates, I did notice that the sample rate shown in the Control bar does not always reflect the sample rate configured in Preferences. That makes sense if the project is a different sample rate than what's configured for inputs, but how does this affect the sample rate the project has after a 44.1Khz project records a 96Khz sampled input? How does clocking not cause issues? This used to be a problem that didn't allow the Recording to start.

    Brian
     
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    #6
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 14:13:59 (permalink)
    I just started recording projects using 48k sample rates. What I found is that there seem to be conflicts between SONAR and Windows that sometimes require manually altering the sample rate in the Windows Sound dialog to whatever sample rate SONAR needs to use for the project to be opened. And I also found that when switching between 48k and 44.1k sample rates in SONAR projects, I have to close SONAR and reopen it in order for SONAR to "catch up" with the fact that I changed the sample rates in the Windows Sound dialog. It seems one MUST change the Windows sample rate to whatever sample rate SONAR will play.  I spent several hours chatting with tech support for my Focusrite sound card about these issues since their software mixer also figures into these parameters.  But their mixer picks up almost immediately the sample rate change in Windows.  I'm wondering why SONAR takes so long to catch up.  I'm on Windows 10 by the way.
     
    I cannot comment on audio drop outs as I started having them only last night and I have no idea why. It just happened in the middle of playing back a 12-track project with 2 MIDI tracks, 10 audio tracks and about 8 effects plugins - not very much at all for my system.  I sent the 2 crash reports to Cakewalk as requested.

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
    #7
    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 14:30:13 (permalink)
    I am confused by your statement of Windows Sound dialog.  Do you mean the ASIO panel for your focusrite?

    Dave
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    #8
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 14:34:31 (permalink)
    Dave - No I mean when one right-clicks on the speaker icon in the Windows task bar and selects "Playback devices" for example. If you then select the device for your sound card, click Properties and then the Advanced tab, that's where one changes Windows 10 sample rates.

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 15:05:00 (permalink)
    That's why I am confused - if you are using your Focusrite interface, why would you be changing sample rates in your windows devices?  Granted I am not familiar with the Focusrite interface, but I would think that you would be changing the settings there - not in Windows.  I don't change my Windows settings at all.

    Dave
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    #10
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 15:10:07 (permalink)
    Dave - Changing the sample rate in Focusrite's Mix Control app does not change it in Windows. And it seems I get no sound unless I set the correct sample rate in Windows.
     
    PS - I have no Windows devices.  I disabled my on-board sound card in BIOS. I have only 1 set of speakers so it got too problematic having to deal with both Windows and Focusrite devices.
    post edited by thorneven - 2016/03/01 16:08:41

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 16:58:12 (permalink)
    Something is not right in your set up if you are having to go into Windows to set the sample rate to get sound out of Sonar.
     
    Does your video card have any audio drivers? Some of them do now.
     
    Did you install Focusrite's driver or let Windows 10 install the driver?

    Dave
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    #12
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 17:09:04 (permalink)
    I just verified my statement. I changed the Windows sample rate to 44.1k and opened a 48k SONAR project. Not only did SONAR not do anything, but I kept getting a "not responding" error from the SONAR process.  So I went back into Windows, changed the sample rate to 48k, and voila, SONAR played the audio.
     
    I installed the Focusrite driver and Mix Control. I spent hours with Focusrite tech support to get info about the right way to make my setup work. Not that they are correct, but at least I'm able to work SONAR projects in both 44.1 and 48k sample rates.
     
    I don't know if my graphics card supports audio. I'm not using it if it does. I wouldn't want to use those crappy speakers in my monitors.
     
    I'm sorry we're stealing this thread from the OP, but I'd love to hear what you think is wrong with my setup.

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
    #13
    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 20:03:18 (permalink)
    To see if you have audio device associated with you video card, get into device manager and see what devices you have under Sound, Video and Game Controllers.  If you have disabled your on-board sound, you should only have your focusrite.
     
    Where in Windows 10 are you changing the sample rate?  I am assuming you are doing from something in the system tray, but if you have all your devices disabled except your focusrite there shouldn't be something in windows to change.
    post edited by dwardzala - 2016/03/01 20:58:42

    Dave
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    #14
    tenfoot
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 20:14:32 (permalink)
    To add to Dave's suggestions and just to double check the obvious  -  you are running your focusrite in Asio mode under preferences/audio in Sonar? 

    Bruce.
     
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    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/01 21:37:06 (permalink)
    Bruce - Yes I'm running ASIO in Focusrite and SONAR. 
     
    Dave - I've already explained above how I change the Windows sample rate. See post# 9.  I altered the post after writing it so maybe you didn't see my edits.

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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 08:37:01 (permalink)
    What playback device are you selecting when you do click on the speaker icon? Post a screenshot if you can.
     
    Is the focusrite selected as your output device in Sonar?
     
     

    Dave
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    #17
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 08:50:34 (permalink)
    Yes, the Focusrite device is the only option non the Playback tab and it is the default.  It says "Line Out, 2 - Scarlett 6i6 USB, Default Device" on it.

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 09:24:53 (permalink)
    When you do that are you pulling up the ASIO control panel or a different control panel?  Also, are you sharing the ASIO drivers with other software in the Sonar preferences menu?
     
    To get Sonar to "catch up quicker," change the sample rate from the ASIO panel in Sonar (it will be on the devices page in preferences.  To be clear, this is a work around as you should not have to change your sample rate the way you are changing it.

    Dave
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    #19
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 10:11:11 (permalink)
    As I said, it's the Windows Sound dialog as explained in post 9. 
     
    Yes, I'm sharing drivers in SONAR on "Playback and Recording" tab in Preferences, "Share drivers with other programs". 
     
    As far as I can see, changing the sample rate in SONAR is only available for new projects (on the "Driver Settings" tab in Preferences, "Default sample rate for new projects"). I see nothing in SONAR that says to change the sample rate for an already-loaded project. Do you mean by clicking on the ASIO button on the "Driver Settings" tab which brings up the Focusrite Mix Control app?  I don't believe I need to do that because Mix Control picks up the sample rate of a project I load in SONAR.

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    #20
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 11:15:37 (permalink)
    Interesting observation - When I switch in SONAR from a 48k project to 44.1k project, I don't have to change the sample rate in Windows. Seems I have to do it only when going from 44.1k to 48k sample rate. So, if I keep the Windows sample rate on 48k, I guess I don't have to change anything, that is assuming I don't have to change the Windows sample rate for playing audio files outside SONAR that are 44.1k.
    post edited by thorneven - 2016/03/02 15:00:01

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    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 16:38:13 (permalink)
    I am out of ideas.  I need a screen shot to see what the dialog looks like when you change the settings in Windows, because I have no way of doing that with either of my interfaces (I can change my on board sound settings but I haven't disabled my on board sound cards.)
     
    I also have never seen anybody refer to changing settings in Windows unless they are using an on board sound card, which you aren't using. 
     
    If your interface and Sonar match, it shouldn't matter what's in Windows which is why I am interested in the screen shot.

    Dave
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    #22
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 17:03:29 (permalink)
    I don't know how to attach an image.  All I can find is an option to post a URL.  When I try to attach an image I get a blank box that says "Select from an option below:", but there are no options displayed.
     
    I don't know what's so hard to understand. On your Playback tab you must have devices displayed for your onboard sound card. I have the same thing except it's for my Focusrite sound card. Anyway, thank you for trying.
    post edited by thorneven - 2016/03/02 17:26:08

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
    #23
    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 17:34:24 (permalink)
    You can upload images to imgur (use the forum option in the share meun on imgur) which is what a lot of people use.  I am not sure what playback tab you are referring to.
     
    This is the speaker icon I have:
     
    Note that it is set to 48K.  However, I am running my interface and sonar at 44.1K.  Note that this is my on board sound which I am not using.  I have no way to alter my BR800 setting from windows.  I only do that throught ASIO panel and in Sonar.
     
     

    Dave
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    #24
    thorneven
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 17:40:30 (permalink)
    From post 9:  one right-clicks on the speaker icon in the Windows task bar and selects "Playback devices" for example. If you then select the device for your sound card, click Properties and then the Advanced tab, that's where one changes Windows 10 sample rates.
     
    If you don't understand that then I guess you're not familiar with Windows.  This is not an installed GUI. It's part of every Windows OS.

    Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Windows 10 Pro x64, Adobe Audition for mastering, 8GB RAM, Intel Q9550 (quad core) running @ 3.83GHz, NVidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti running two 2560 x 1440 27" monitors.
    #25
    dwardzala
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    Re: Windows 10 Experience with Plat 2016/03/02 17:47:45 (permalink)
    I see what you are talking about now.  I was not aware of it, because I have never had to use it.  Here is a picture of it:

    As you can see, there are no sample rate or bit depth settings to adjust.  My other interface, which is on a Win7 system has the same thing.  I don't know if focusrite is different.
     
    Most people only adjust their settings in Sonar and their interface's console.  You should probably leave it at 48K if it works and modify the settings in the focusrite console.
     
    Actually, I do see where you can adjust the sample rate and bit depth in the IN properties.  Mine are set to 44.1K 16 bit, but Sonar has 44.1K and 24 bit and I have no issues.   Again I *never* have to go in there to do anything in that menu.

    Dave
    Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
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