eric.birchall
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Channel Tools Confusion
I have read various threads about the use of Increase Width in Channel tools , but I kind of like it on an acoustic guitar intro to a song I have . I never record acoustic on a stereo track!
Channel Tools is now greyed out and does not do anything for me , so I went to an old project and found where I had used it before on an acoustic guitar mono track and it was all fine and working not greyed out.
I had my new and old projects open at the same time with both windows of CT on screen, both with "Increase Width" setting , one working , the other greyed out L and R input mode sliders . I checked the tracks and both were in mono.
Must be something obvious , can anybody help?
Ric (on Newburyport)
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arlen2133
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/02 17:04:23
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☄ Helpfulby eric.birchall 2016/03/04 14:16:26
Check to see if you have the FX Bin bypassed.
Right click in the FX Bin and see if that's been checked.
Arlen aka Mr Grant my music
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Paul P
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/02 17:13:23
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☄ Helpfulby eric.birchall 2016/03/04 14:16:44
The L - R sliders are greyed out on my system when I put channel tools on a mono track. Changing the track to stereo enables them. I fail to see how you could pan and play with the width on a mono track.
I believe Channel tools received an update in the not too distant past. Maybe something changed.
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millzy
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/03 17:31:31
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/03/04 10:42:56
You've definitely got to have your track set to stereo, not mono, for that to work. Even if you've recorded it in mono you still need to switch the track to stereo.
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sharke
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/03 17:57:04
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Channel Tools has an "increase width" setting? I don't see one. How would Channel Tools increase width, with the L/R delays in a Haas style setting?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Anderton
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/03 22:25:45
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☄ Helpfulby eric.birchall 2016/03/04 14:28:40
sharke
Channel Tools has an "increase width" setting? I don't see one. How would Channel Tools increase width, with the L/R delays in a Haas style setting?
You might find this helpful...it's not a Haas thing, it's a stereo field placement thing.
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Paul P
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/03 23:01:53
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If you put something like R-Mix on the output it is very clear that the most effective way of playing with position and width is a combination of pan, phase and delay all of which are present in Channel Tools (or you can set up 2 tracks to do the same). The actual width controls in Channel Tools don't appear to do much at all.
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sharke
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/03 23:22:14
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Anderton
sharke
Channel Tools has an "increase width" setting? I don't see one. How would Channel Tools increase width, with the L/R delays in a Haas style setting?
You might find this helpful...it's not a Haas thing, it's a stereo field placement thing.
I'm still not sure how Channel Tools can increase the perceived width of a track. I see how it can move the sound around the stereo field, but I don't hear any actual widening. Surely if those sliders were capable of increasing perceived width, then you could put channel tools on a stereo track containing a mono source and make it sound stereo. But if I try that on a mono source on a stereo track and move those sliders and angle/width controls around, all I hear is regular panning and/or the source getting quieter.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Anderton
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 08:20:26
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Think of it this way. Assume you have a mono track. Pan it far right (or far left, depending on your politics). Now pan it to the center. Even though it's still a mono/point source of sound, it will sound wider because it is now in both channels.
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.
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Paul P
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 08:50:26
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Anderton
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.
It sure doesn't look wider in R-Mix. If fact setting the width sliders to max narrows the signal down to a vertical line. Most changes to the width sliders do nothing at all.
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sharke
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 08:51:02
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Anderton
Think of it this way. Assume you have a mono track. Pan it far right (or far left, depending on your politics). Now pan it to the center. Even though it's still a mono/point source of sound, it will sound wider because it is now in both channels.
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.
Regarding your first point, I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels. So is a center panned mono source really any "wider" than a hard panned source? Unless of course you're talking about the minuscule differences between how the sound is reproduced by different speakers? In the scenario you then outline, surely you're describing a sound that is already stereo, monoizing it, then re-stereoizing it. So it doesn't actually end up any wider than it was before, does it? I thought that to make a sound wider you had to increase the differences between right and left, either in the time, pitch or frequency domain. Unless you're doing any of those things then surely all you can do is move the existing stereo field around or narrow it?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 08:57:57
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☼ Best Answerby eric.birchall 2016/03/04 14:32:30
try clicking that button on your track (the one that looks like the mastercard logo/ 2 circles)
this is what does it for me.
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bitflipper
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 09:48:46
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sharke
I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels.
Bingo. Channel Tools does have the ability to manufacture L/R differences via delays, offering a convenient way to advance or **** one side, or to **** both sides by different amounts. The latter is what the "Increase Width" preset does. This requires that the track's interleave be set to Stereo, even if the recorded data is mono. That allows the plugin's outputs to remain separate during subsequent processing of the track. The other way Channel Tools can increase width perception is by using its Mid-Side mode to turn the Mid channel down or the Side channel up. This does not manufacture differences, but rather exaggerates whatever differences are already present in a stereo track. It doesn't do anything at all for mono tracks, or for that matter, a stereo track wherein left and right are identical (e.g. recording a mono source to a stereo track). [EDIT] I guess this lame software considers "r e t a r d" a censorable term. Idiots.
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Anderton
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 10:41:04
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sharke
Anderton
Think of it this way. Assume you have a mono track. Pan it far right (or far left, depending on your politics). Now pan it to the center. Even though it's still a mono/point source of sound, it will sound wider because it is now in both channels.
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.
Regarding your first point, I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels. I'm not talking differences between the two channels, try what I describe. Maybe this will make more sense. Feed a mono signal into a mono PA system that has two speakers about 10 feet apart. Stand in between the two speakers. Now turn off the left speaker. The sound will seem narrower. Turn the left speaker back on. The sound will seem wider. That's all channel tools does, unless you introduce time delays. .
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eric.birchall
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 14:21:26
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Sorry , I didn't intend to reopen the debate on Channel Tools , I'm only a hobbyist and thought I had found something that was different between versions of software. I have checked the bypass status is OK , and converted the track to stereo. As usual reading Craig's notes taught me something I never knew!.
But the "mastercard" button in the console view did the trick!
Thanks to everyone
Ric
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scook
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/04 14:24:08
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eric.birchall
But the "mastercard" button in the console view did the trick!
It is also available on the track inspector.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Channel Tools Confusion
2016/03/05 18:37:49
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eric.birchall
Sorry , I didn't intend to reopen the debate on Channel Tools , I'm only a hobbyist and thought I had found something that was different between versions of software. I have checked the bypass status is OK , and converted the track to stereo. As usual reading Craig's notes taught me something I never knew!.
But the "mastercard" button in the console view did the trick!
Thanks to everyone
Ric
this is the part where I laugh at everyone for thinking I was an idiot  I knew this was your issue Eric. happens to me as well buddy ;-) Channels tools is one of my favorite plug ins. take care and happy jamming.
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