[SOLVED]Upgraded my soundboard, and now I've lost USB connectivity - any thoughts/ideas ??

So, I've had my current PC (HP Pavillion 500 Win 8.1 64-bit) for a while, and have had latency issues (getting audio clips to line up with Addictive Drums 2 tracks) for what's seems like forever. I've changed all the usual stuff within Sonar to try and address it, but without success - the only way I've been able to get over this was by nudging the audio clips left, by around 6 frames, which I'm pretty sure should not be necessary for ALL audio tracks. 
 
Arrived at the conclusion that the problem lay with the intregated CODECs and that I needed to get a separate soundcard, go back to square 1 and start again. So, bought a SoundBlaster Fx PCI/e - not the best, I know, but for $50, it is what it is... (I also have an older SB X-Fi PCI from another PC which I'll have a play with this evening)
 
I use a TASCAM external audio interface, connecting via USB to the PC, for audio in/out and phantom power, and use it's L/R RCA "outs" for connecting to the monitor speakers/headphones. 
 
However, since upgrading to a "proper" sound card, I've lost USB connectivity to the TASCAM, and can only connect it to the PC by using the RCA outs from the TASCAM, as "line-in" to the soundcard, and therefore have to have the speakers connected to the soundcard as well which means no real-time echo-less monitoring through the interface. This connection arrangement works OK, in that input/output can be achieved, and I've used it in this fashion before, but it's not what I want and it's not how it should be connected. I haven't checked yet whether the new soundcard solves the latency problem, thought I'd get over the connection issue first
 
It seems that without connecting the line-in and line-out jacks on the soundcard, the sound card is not "enabled", and, at no time is the USB connection to the TASCAM recognised as valid audio in/outs (although it still provides phantom power). Previously I didn't need to have any of the "integrated" line-in/outs connected, the USB connection was recognised at all times, and all audio (CDs, Youtube, Sonar, digital radio etc.) played through the monitor speakers attached to the TASCAM.
 
What I haven't done as yet is to reload the TASCAM drivers, since upgrading the soundcard, coz that only occurred to me this morning in the shower, but, I'll try that tonight and see what happens.
 
My gut feel is that it's a soundcard/PC kind-of conflict/limitation, but would like someone else's opinion.

• Is this a SB soundcard specific problem ? If it is, it only cost me 50-bucks, so I'm not that fussed if I have to get another one. However, are there any soundcard makes/models/configuration I should be looking for, where this lack of USB connectivity doesn't occur?
• If it's not a soundcard problem, is this a typical PC problem where if you move away from the "AS-IS" off the shelf configuration, things don't work?
• Is this a PC config problem and I need to change x, y, or z to fix it ?
• Or is it only fixable by some other kind of nefarious means?

I know every PC/setup is different, so I'm not expecting a miracle answer (although one of them would be very nice), but just some pointers or advice would be appreciated.
 
Thanks ... Kimbo

Don't know if this will help but sometimes your USB needs to be a direct input USB (usually in the back of PC) and not the ports on the front or top of the case.
 
Jim
 
 

Thanks for the info.
 
Regarding the latency, I use AD2/step sequencer to "pre-record" (for want of a better description) the drum track - so it's not being triggered by anything other than the Sonar "play" button. Then I record the audio via the TASCAM to that pre-recorded drum track. When played back, the "mix" has the audio delayed, by approx. 6-frames, when compared to the AD2 pattern, hence the nudging "left" by approx. 6-frames - that's how it's described in the Sonar manual - no idea (right now) how many samples that equates to, but apparently there are 30 frames per second if that's any help.
 
I've "fiddled" with numbers of buffers, buffer sizes, delaying audio/delay-midi in the syncing tab, and probably a whole bunch of other standard Sonar stuff as well, with really no significant improvement.
 
The TASCAM's working fine - it's just its USB connection to the PC that's the issue right now - and the first thing I'll do is reload the drivers and check out whether Windows can see it - it did before I put the soundcard in, so I've no reason to expect that it won't again - maybe it is just the drivers.
 
The looping of the interface to the SB that you refer to isn't really looping - if the USB connection was working, the RCAs line-outs from the TASCAM would got to the speakers, but currently the RCAs are the only way to get the TASCAM to talk audio to the SB - so the USB connection (which is to the rear connection Jim, not the front panel) is only providing power to the device, there's no audio in/out via USB, and which there was before I put the SB in.
 
I've had issues getting ASIO drivers to play nicely - and I'm not talking ASIO4ALL drivers - regular ASIO drivers downloaded from some German site the name of which I can't remember, but it begins with M, I think (I'm writing this at work, and that info is at home). I don't believe the integrated CODEC on the PC will support ASIO, which was another reason for adding the SB. At present the drivers being used are MME, again coz they're the only ones I can get working.
 
Thanks again, I now have a few more lines of enquiry to pursue.
 
Kimbo

Well, first off, reinstalled the correct drivers, 64-bit instead of 32-bit, and the USB connection is now back up 'n running - soooo, first problem solved.
 
Ok, so why the Soundblaster and a TASCAM ? Hmm, well, here's where my stupidity may show up, so bear with me and be gentle. This is an old TASCAM, can't remember exactly when I bought it, but it's got to be 8-10 years ago. Why did I get it? Because I needed a way of connecting guitar lead jacks and XLR's to the PC, and the weight of "convertors" plugs eventually broke the original on-board mini jacks on my old PC's sound card - I bought a new sound card to replace the old one. I then also bought the TASCAM purely as a way of connecting to the PC without damaging the mini jacks, again.
 
And I've run it in that same connected fashion ever since, on the various PCs I've had since then - with the RCA line-out's as the line-in to the sound card. I have always viewed the TASCAM as a connector, rather than a true sound card - and I'm still to be convinced that this particular model is, BUT that's me just being stubborn, and I'm open to any suggestions and being proven to be a complete d**k - is it really a sound card, or is it just a method of connecting - I really just don't know.
 
BUT, and this is where the idiot, and the "me Tarzan you Jane - there's no need to read the instruction manual" side of me comes out. It was only about 5-months ago, when I did read the manual, that I truly discovered the right way of connecting it, i.e. via USB, and monitoring through the TASCAM, which solved a whole heap of echo monitoring problems, so I was like "Wooohooo !!! Fixed that little s**t of a problem at last !!".
 
But, I've still not been able to get over the latency problem with this particular PC - I have in the past, by tweaking the SONAR settings, but those PCs had separate sound cards, and not used the onboard integrated CODECs - therefore my first step in attempting to correct latency, in this instance (having seemingly failed through SONAR and driver tweaks), was to mimic what I'd done before, and get a new sound card - I tried running ASIO drivers (from Maya) but they don't appear to compatible with the integrated CODECs on the PC - they were when I installed the sound blaster, but then of course in Sonar they couldn't find the TASCAM, because it "wasn't there" to be found.
 
And so we now come full circle, back to where I started, having installed the new sound card and subsequently lost USB connectivity, I've now got it back, and can start wrestling with driver and other stuff to fix the latency.
 
However, from what you've, if this particular model of TASCAM is actually a sound card (??) then it would seem I shouldn't need the SoundBlaster - but if I can't get ASIO drivers don't seem to work with the integrated CODES on the PC, but they do with the SoundBlaster, then I'm kind-of at a loss - or just being plain dumb/stupid - and I'd suggest it's more than likely the latter.
 
So, maybe I need to explain my naive logic - take the TASCAM out of the picture for now - with any old sound card installed, you plug mics and speakers into it, and sound goes in and sound comes out, so the audio signals are processed by the CODES or the sound card processor on the board. Now put the TASCAM, correctly hooked up, back in the picture - doesn't that need an internal sound card of some description to process the line-in/out signals?
 
Sorry if that appears a really dumb question, but you've now made me question everything I've understood for the last n-years, so I'm thirsty for knowledge....
 
Cheers ... Kimbo

It seems to me you are making this all much, much more complicated than it is.

From what you say, you have two audio interfaces. A Soundblaster card and a Tascam USB interface.

The two have nothing to do with each other at all as far as Windows (and Sonar) are concerned. They each have their own driver. I have no idea at all what the "site beginning with M" that you say you downloaded Tascam drivers from might be. Usually the best and risk-free place to get drivers for anything is the manufacturer's website.

"Codecs" have absolutely nothing at all to do with anything here.

Install the correct drivers for the Tascam then connect it by USB. It should then show up in Sonar's preferences as an available audio device. If the drivers are ASIO drivers then Sonar will let you select that mode for the Tascam.

Folks - thank you all for all your help and patience - I now understand where my TASCAM sits in the grand scheme of things, and honestly didn't ever think it actually took the place of the PC sound card... however, really happy to be re-educated and have it explained.
 
Reloading the TASCAM drivers fixed the connectivity problem, and now I understand that the Sound Blaster is redundant, I'll remove it tonight to avoid me, and the PC, getting confused, again. Then I'll focus on getting the ASIO drivers working correctly.... and I may be back again, in a separate post, if I run into problems (which, based on past examples, is almost inevitable).
 
Cheers ... Kimbo
 
 

In a hurry here, but check out this thread regarding manual sample offset (picture of where it is entered is first shown in post #4). Also, post #52 has a link to a utility that will do the loop back measurement for you.
 
Bottom line... an interface can have an offset that needs to me accommodated manually (usually a one-time setup), but is good to know what yours is specifically.

Yes the loop back test is always a good idea I'm big on telling everyone to do it. So once you get that done run the loop back test and see if your offset is correct. 
With the Sound Blaster eradicated and every trace of it's drivers and registry removed, then the proper Tascam drivers you might see some improvment
 
Here's a good one I use. Even though it say's Windows 7, it works for me on Windows 8.1.. Cannot vouch for W10. 
 
http://www.oblique-audio.com/free/rtlutility
 
 
 
I also do the manual test where I use a midi drum track, bounce to it audio, ( freeze)  and loop it back to an audio track. 
Zoom in and see if the hits line up. Good idea to check if they drift over time. 
 
Here's my Tascam us1641 running the old drivers:
 
Top track MIDI
Next Track is bounce to audio session drummer- note that it lines up perfectly with the midi.
Next Track is ASIO mode loop back Normal setting for buffer  notice it plays early around 120 ms.
Next Track is ASIO mode loop back highest buffer setting,, no change from the normal setting, so buffers not involved.
Bottom track  WDM mode loop back now it's late by a lot! I'm no longer a fan of WDM mode for overdubs. 

This is what I was suffering so bought the Focusrite.  Which as you see is bang on. I need to re test the Tascam with the new drivers which came out a year after I did this test. 
 

 
 Here' s a few others I tested. The Behringer only has MME drivers. For $30 can't expect much eh! 
 When I look at this I also see how bright and cheery Sonar 8.5 was.. Somebody mentioned codec was not involved with audio but note the output dialog. USB audio codec. The Behringer is a plug and play USB box that works without issue for playback. I use it with my XP and W 7 laptops at gigs because it's one step up from the mini jack on board system. 

 
This is a 2002 PCI card originally used for Radio broadcasting.  Only a 2x2 TRS 1/4" but shows how  PCI cards can be good performers. To bad Creative just plain screwed up with writing proper drivers. My Audigy card is very nifty otherwise with its front panel interface and spdif connections. In a box now as it was only 32 bit so no good on anything new. 
 The company supported it right up to W7 64 bit. It is in my old backup DAW now. And it never caused a conflict with my other ASIO devices. I can just choose one or the other. Note it did not work in WDM mode. 

I know this has been solved.  However another +1 for not using SoundBlaster.  I installed a SoundBlaster sound card as the on-board had went out on a motherboard.  After that I kept having Sonar problems and problems with my (at the time) Saffire Pro 40.  I removed the SoundBlaster and the Sonar/Saffire Pro 40 problems all went away.

Excellent news.
It is a bit confusing because of the terms used. Most people still call their audio interfaces a sound card just out of habit. Back at the turn of the century there was no such animal as USB audio interface. 
USB was to slow I guess. 
PCI cards are ( I think)  all you could buy so the term "sound card" stuck even when they became Firewire or USB.
 
Most on board sound "chips" can co exist with the ASIO drivers of your audio interface. But PCI type cards often take over the system and make life difficult for Sonar. Other audio software might not have an issue but Sonar seems to like a clean house. Most PCI sound cards have simple drivers, but Sound Blaster adds a lot of bloatware etc so is very invasive. 
I don't even install the on board audio drivers when I build my DAW. I have no problem playing any type files, even u-tubes and Windows Media player stuff.. Some people like to use the on board for windows stuff, but me I like my clean house for my DAW.