caminitic
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Bluetooth speaker mixing?
So...I wanna try to do the ole "crappy mono speaker test" to see how my mixes are coming out on alternate source and wanted to see if it was possible via Bluetooth. I have a cheap speaker I use via my iPhone while I'm showering or whatever and it works great (amazing how perfect professional mixes sound through it...) and I wanted to see if I could add it to my mix arsenal.
My Dell PC has no Bluetooth but has a few open USB ports...all I'd need to do is buy a USB dongle and install appropriate drivers, etc to get it to work, correct? And would I be able to switch between output sources from my main speakers through Quad Capture to Bluetooth speaker on Sonar?
Just wanted to see if it was even possible before I bought something online blindly. Any input is welcomed. Thanks!
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jimkleban
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/03 20:01:12
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Not sure but you would need some software in WINDOWs to broadcast to the speaker(s). I do this with UE BOOM but not directly from SONAR. I do a quick render and use WINDOWs to talk to the UE BOOMs.
I have never tried to use the UE BOOMs as the output of my MAINs or any other BUSSes in SPLAT.
Jim
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MacFurse
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/03 20:15:27
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Just buy a cheap Bluetooth receiver/transmitter from Ebay. About 10bucks. Plug it into the speaker out on your Dell
and transmit to your Bluetooth speaker. I use these things for lots of little things, like sending music from my phone to my mixing desk when playing live. I can do background music during breaks from where I go and sit, usually at the bar lol!!
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Anderton
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/03 20:49:18
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Just remember there's a latency issue on the order of 30-40 ms or so.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 01:58:16
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good idea to check mixes on different speakers, but don't know if any 10$ speaker will be suitable
I'd use it only to double check for serious deficiencies (if they can even qualify for that) but don't believe that the old saying about the famous speakers like Auratones ("if it sounds good on them, it will sound good on any speaker") will apply to 10$ bluetooth speaker. the frequency response might just be so bad that the results are more misleading than helpful ...
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 08:00:45
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FreeFlyBertl
good idea to check mixes on different speakers, but don't know if any 10$ speaker will be suitable
...
It's the Bluetooth transmitter they talk about that costs 10$. There's no info about the speaker by the OP except for "I have a cheap speaker I use via my iPhone while I'm showering or whatever and it works great (amazing how perfect professional mixes sound through it...)". Thinking about getting myself a mono-test-crappy-speaker myself. In addition to my home stereo and car system my main transportability test takes place in a 20 year old boom box.
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caminitic
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 11:04:17
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Cool. Thanks for the replies everyone.
So...I can buy cheap USB dongle transmitter...which I assume comes with installation software/drivers...and Sonar would be able to find alternate output for me to switch to (i.e. instead of my Master Bus going to Quad Capture 1/2, I can switch it to "Bluetooth speaker"?)
I understand the latency but am only considering this setup to listen to mixes in progress to check frequency build up and mono compatibility without having to do what I currently do...bounce down...email to myself...check on iPhone speaker or Bluetooth speaker from the phone.
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daveny5
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 11:30:04
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Why don't you just send an MP3 or an AIFF to your iPhone? Then you don't need any additional equipment.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 11:50:30
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caminitic
So...I can buy cheap USB dongle transmitter...which I assume comes with installation software/drivers...and Sonar would be able to find alternate output for me to switch to (i.e. instead of my Master Bus going to Quad Capture 1/2, I can switch it to "Bluetooth speaker"?)
Since you probably run the Quad Capture on ASIO driver, you have a "problem" i.e. you can only have one active ASIO device at a time. So even if you get ASIO drivers for a USB dongle (which I don't know if they exist), you would still have to deactivate the Quad Capture in the audio pref and activate the bluetooth dongle ... which is too much hassle (i.e. not like simply routing it in Sonar). Why don't you use the extra output on the Quad Capture (COAX OUT 3/4) - if you can connect your speakers to that you can simply re-route the master bus in sonar
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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caminitic
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/04 11:53:58
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Yeah I would if my speaker had an actual input but it's solely bluetooth.
And I was just trying to save time from bouncing down, emailing to myself, etc. Sounds like I may be creating a separate issue...lol
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 05:25:21
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caminitic
Cool. Thanks for the replies everyone.
So...I can buy cheap USB dongle transmitter...which I assume comes with installation software/drivers...and Sonar would be able to find alternate output for me to switch to (i.e. instead of my Master Bus going to Quad Capture 1/2, I can switch it to "Bluetooth speaker"?)
If you read the post #3 by MacFurse again, you'll see it's not a USB gadget he's recommending. He plugs it in the speaker output (I assume headphone output will do?). According to my understanding a thingie plugged in the physical output can not utilize any kind of drivers, as it's not communicating with the PC in any way. Well, I guess it's possible it's USB-powered, though. Never used one.
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MacFurse
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 05:50:57
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Kalle Rantaaho
caminitic
Cool. Thanks for the replies everyone.
So...I can buy cheap USB dongle transmitter...which I assume comes with installation software/drivers...and Sonar would be able to find alternate output for me to switch to (i.e. instead of my Master Bus going to Quad Capture 1/2, I can switch it to "Bluetooth speaker"?)
If you read the post #3 by MacFurse again, you'll see it's not a USB gadget he's recommending. He plugs it in the speaker output (I assume headphone output will do?). According to my understanding a thingie plugged in the physical output can not utilize any kind of drivers, as it's not communicating with the PC in any way. Well, I guess it's possible it's USB-powered, though. Never used one.
Yeh. I'm talking about a device that takes a 3mm jack in (stereo) then re-transmits via Bluetooth. They have a switch on them. They can either be a receiver or transmitter. Would be great if their was no latency, you could run ear monitors off your desk if they were that good. But, to the OP, you can run whatever lead you want into the little transmitter. Just get a 2 x 6.5mm jack to stereo 3mm jack Y splitter cable, plug the two 6.5's into your quadcapture out and plug in your transmitter, and your away! If you want a better explanation, feel free to ask, and I will give you a more detailed response (I'm a tech, so I get a bit over simplistic sometimes, sorry). For others interested, I've run some mixes out now into one of those Logitec (UE) megaboom portable Bluetooth speakers, and man, they sure are good at picking too much bass in your mix. I run a pretty awesome sub along with a pair Yamaha HS7'S, and it is a very transparent sound, but being an old bass player, I'm probably a bit deaf to some lower frequencies, and the little megaboom speaker highlights my errors very effectively. Sometimes small is good lol!!
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Kamikaze
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 06:10:37
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I plug one of these into my headphone out of the quad capture. 
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caminitic
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 10:23:13
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WOW love the detailed responses. Thanks to all. Yes...I do the "headphone out to my cheesy desktop computer speakers" too...the uniqueness of the Bluetooth speaker being mono and smaller was what I was hoping to take advantage of as another listening source. Too much bass?!? Yeah I've been there. Like just last night.... 
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gustabo
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 10:37:04
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Waiting on this. Pre-ordered...
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MacFurse
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 13:15:54
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gustabo
Waiting on this.
Pre-ordered...
I'm sorry gustabo, now I've just gotta ask, 'cause I'm a gizmo collector and I want one too.. If it's not a phone speaker simulator, IT IS A PHONE SPEAKER (that's the add talking, not me), why don't we just plug our phones in ? I NEED your explanation, to talk me outa of buying one !!
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tenfoot
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 13:58:55
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IK multimedia ARC 2 acoustic correction system vst has a very cool feature that simulates different playback devices and environments that is excellent for testing mixes. The room correction itself also works far more effectively than you might expect. http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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MacFurse
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 15:38:56
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tenfoot
IK multimedia ARC 2 acoustic correction system vst has a very cool feature that simulates different playback devices and environments that is excellent for testing mixes. The room correction itself also works far more effectively than you might expect.
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
Agree this is awesome technology, but it's just a bit hard to justify the cost. I think if I was going to spend this much, it would be better put towards more room insulation. My next album will be a huge hit. I will be able to afford whatever I want and ditch my day (and night) job 
Platinum. i7 4771 3.5ghz. ECU H87 mobo with 3 monitor support. 16gb Ripjaws 1600mhz. Focusrite 18i20. 2 x 250gb Samsung EVO SSD's OP/Programs. 2x1TB Seagate Baracuda sata3 data drives. 200gb sata2 bootable drive for online and downloading only. Seagate 2tb USB 3.0 backup drive. 2x27in monitors. Rode K2 valve mic. Sontronics STC-1 pair. Studio Projects B1 condenser. SM58B. SM57B. Presonus Eureka Preamp.
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tlw
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 17:07:21
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FreeFlyBertl
Since you probably run the Quad Capture on ASIO driver, you have a "problem" i.e. you can only have one active ASIO device at a time. So even if you get ASIO drivers for a USB dongle (which I don't know if they exist), you would still have to deactivate the Quad Capture in the audio pref and activate the bluetooth dongle ... which is too much hassle (i.e. not like simply routing it in Sonar).
ASIO is an irrelevancy with Bluetooth. As Craig Anderton says, the Bluetooth protocol itself has a minimum latency of between 30 and 40ms. I've a cheap little mono (well, it takes stereo input, but it's mono really) basic Bluetooth speaker of the kind that go with tablets, phones etc. It's not exactly hi-fi but is better than tablet/laptop built-in speakers as far as bass is concerned. As in at least there's a bit of bass output. I got it in the first place for precisely the job of finding out what mixes sound like on the kind of cheap lowest common denominator things lots of people use nowadays. Don't think I'll be remixing stuff to cope with the shortcomings of cheap Bluetooth speakers though. It does show up some of the more obvious issues that can arise when collapsing a stereo mix to mono though. And since these single speakers are essentially mono they're another good reason for checking mixes for mono compatibility besides club and background PA systems. It also comes in handy for use with my ipad when I don't want to use earbuds. Has to be connected by wire for videos/TV though, otherwise the character's lips move, the gun fires etc. in silence and an appreciable wait later the bluetooth system catches up.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 20:43:27
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I bought a Bluetooth Transmitter/ Receiver for $34 off Amazon. I stayed away from the $10 ones as they mostly get bad reviews but who knows. Mine claimed the LOWEST latency which is still real bad so totally useless for studio headphones. Anyhow it's dead simple to use with anything that has a headphone jack available. You just push a button to pair it with the speaker and it will transmit audio from your phone, laptop, TV or home stereo ,, and yes with a very noticeable delay. Don't expect peoples lips to be in sync with the TV playback. It uses USB to charge only. My netbook has built in Blue tooth but to heck if I can get it to send audio. This little gizmo works better. https://www.amazon.ca/Avantree-Bluetooth-Receiver-Transmitter-Headphones/dp/B00LAZ6RTW  ]
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 20:49:53
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I am a fan of checking mixes on small speakers. Very interesting article in March 2016 SOS about Rik Simpson. (mixing Coldplay) He says he has tried many many small speakers and the best sounding one by far is a small Bluetooth speaker called 'The Boom Movement Swimmer' It is designed to be used in the shower but you don't have to of course. It is the sheer sound of it that impressed him. Over many others he tried. http://www.polkboom.com/shop/swimmer/
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tenfoot
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/05 22:54:45
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MacFurse
tenfoot
IK multimedia ARC 2 acoustic correction system vst has a very cool feature that simulates different playback devices and environments that is excellent for testing mixes. The room correction itself also works far more effectively than you might expect.
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
Agree this is awesome technology, but it's just a bit hard to justify the cost. I think if I was going to spend this much, it would be better put towards more room insulation. My next album will be a huge hit. I will be able to afford whatever I want and ditch my day (and night) job
Haha - sounds like a plan! It is a bit exe, but it does work very well.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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caminitic
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/16 08:43:31
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Just to follow up on my own thread, this seems very interesting re: streaming music to mobile device for mix check. David Glenn mentioned it on one of his mix videos. https://audre.io/
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gustabo
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/16 10:22:24
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MacFurse
gustabo
Waiting on this.
Pre-ordered...
I'm sorry gustabo, now I've just gotta ask, 'cause I'm a gizmo collector and I want one too..
If it's not a phone speaker simulator, IT IS A PHONE SPEAKER (that's the add talking, not me), why don't we just plug our phones in ? I NEED your explanation, to talk me outa of buying one !!
I just find it easier to hit a switch on my speaker selector to feed a speaker than stream it to my phone...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
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caminitic
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/17 11:33:29
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So about the phone...and this is a long answer to a difficult question I know...but...
How does commercial music sound so BIG on it? I just listened to some pop tunes from Ariana Grande, The Weeknd, Nick Jonas, etc...and can't believe their apparent size...through a mono...tiny...iPhone speaker.
So...the bass and bottom end I think I'm hearing is really like 200Hz and up stuff? It's truly fascinating. I feel like I'm placing too much emphasis on 100Hz and lower in my mixes when I listen to these pop tunes. I really should put a cut below 200Hz on master bus (just for emphasis and reference) and listen to what I hear.
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mettelus
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Re: Bluetooth speaker mixing?
2016/04/17 13:12:48
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The range of the playback speaker definitely affects what frequencies will be generated, but a good mix will (should) translate well to any speaker set (smaller, mono, etc.). I use my phone quite often to playback mp3s to check them simply because most listeners are probably going to be using ear buds anyway... not much bass in those guys at all. It is an interesting litmus test to "dumb down" the playback system on a mix.
An ironic counterpoint... I have a set of old Cerwin Vega LS-15s that I have not used in years and powered them on a few weeks ago, and the bass on those guys from commercial material was overwhelming to me with a flat EQ. It made me realize how much frequency content we never hear because of the playback platform. I had grown accustomed to "tame bass" because only one other system could play those back, and I never actually heard them.
There is definitely merit in considering the most common playback options of listeners. While a good mix will translate well, not everyone has powerful (sub)woofers that they use normally. Bass frequencies also pack a lot of power, so can also make irate neighbors in short order... all they hear is the "thump thump," but it travels pretty far.
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