Tempo map created by Melodyne: Audio lags generated beat.

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Tom B
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2016/04/06 19:00:16 (permalink)

Tempo map created by Melodyne: Audio lags generated beat.

I have been experimenting with the Melodyne tempo map integration with Sonar.  I've encountered a minor issue which hopefully can be solved easily.
 
The audio drum beats are lagging the Melodyne generated measures/bars by approximately 60 ticks.  In other words, the audio drum transients are consistently behind the generated tempo.  I wouldn't expected things to line up perfectly, but was surprised to see how consistent the lag was across the song.  Interestingly, the first measure of the song lines up very closely and occasionally other parts are more closely aligned. 
 
Here's what I did:
  • I split the tracks just before the first beat of the song and set  initial tempos on both sides of the split. Then used "Set Measure" (Shift M) to set the first beat of the song. The first clip has several measures of silence and a count-off.  
  • Locked the clips, and set all timing to absolute to preserve the existing clip, automation and marker positions.
  • Dragged an audio drum track into the timeline.  I tried various combinations of drum tracks and seemed to get the best results using one of the overhead mics.  The recording is all audio tracks. 
  • Other settings:  "Snap-to" is enabled and I tried various note settings. The Cake TV tutorial shows "Snap-to" enabled too.
Is there a setting I may have used which introduced a constant offset to my tempo map? 
Is there a way to simply shift the map to remove the offset?  I would prefer not to move all the audio clips.
Suggestions?
 
I suppose Melodyne thinks the drummer was really playing behind the beat
 

- Tom B.
See the new Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum - Jan 2019.
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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Tempo map created by Melodyne: Audio lags generated beat. 2016/04/06 20:21:51 (permalink)
    Not sure I understand - are you comparing the positions of the extracted tempos with the actual audio transients?
    Keep in mind that Melodyne doesn't exclusively use transients for detecting its tempo map so some variance from the onsets can occur. 
     
    Are you using Melodyne 4 Studio or essential? In Studio you should be able to open the tempo map editor inside melodyne and exactly see where Melodyne has detected the tempos. SONAR is simply pulling that data into our tempo map so the actual detected positions are out of our control. You should see exactly the same tempo positions in musical time in Melodyne and in SONAR. 

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
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    Tom B
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    Re: Tempo map created by Melodyne: Audio lags generated beat. 2016/04/06 22:04:22 (permalink)
    Noel,
     
    Thanks for the reply.   
     
    After generating the tempo map, I compared the timing of the drum hits (i.e. "transients" in the waveform display) against the M:B:T location.  I expected the drum beats would cluster around the beats generated by Melodyne with some variance.  It was a bit surprising that the audio beats seemed to be lagging by nearly a constant amount.  In fairness, I likely picked a "worst-case" audio project to start learning!   As explained below, I was able to manually adjust the generated tempo map to get better results. 
     
    The audio project I chose had problematic tempo. The normally rock-steady drummer sped up several BPM in the first few bars and the tempo varied throughout.  It was fascinating to view the graph in the tempo view. The tempo graph almost looked like a sine wave!    
     
    Using the Sonar tempo view, I changed and deleted some of the tempo entries early in the song (this is the section which sped up quickly). Along with a couple other adjustments, the M:B:T and the drum hits are much closer aligned. 
     
    I'm using "Melodyne 4 essential".  It sounds like the "Studio" version would have made the task easier.  So far, I really like the new tempo generation integration between Sonar and Melodyne.
     
    Thanks again.
    post edited by Tom B - 2016/04/06 23:30:48

    - Tom B.
    See the new Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum - Jan 2019.
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