Johnbee58
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Learning MIDI CC
I've been using MIDI since 2009 in various virtual instrument libraries I have that I use in Sonar and started using in other DAWs as well. I would very much like to take my knowledge to the next level and learn how to manipulate CC commands in an attempt to make my horns and strings sound more authentic. I've heard terms such as "Breath Controller" and "Control Change" and I have a keyboard controller with a Pitch Bend and Mod wheel but do not know how to use them. I've done a lot of looking around and can't find much. Not many books or YouTube vids on the subject. What I'm wondering is if anybody here can direct me to educational information on how to manipulate MIDI to make it sound more realistic. If there is anybody here who masters it, how did you come upon your knowledge? Please direct me to the best source in education in this area. I will be forever grateful. John B.
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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Wookiee
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 07:26:49
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Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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dcumpian
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 08:46:43
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Probably the best way to learn how/when to use midi CC is to learn the synth you are using. Load a patch and record something. Now rewind and start moving the mod wheel. Do the same thing with the pitch wheel. Those two controls are easy, and mostly easy to grok, unless you are using a high-end orchestral library, then things get tricky. The other thing to learn is easiest if your controller has at least one knob on it that can send midi. In synths like Kontakt, you can playback what you recorded, and while it is playing, move various controls in the interface with your mouse. When you find one you would like to automate, right-click on it, select "Learn midi cc", wiggle the know on your controller, then record these as another pass. Make sure you are recording using "Sound On Sound". If you want to reuse the knob to automate a different control, make sure you right-click on the first control and select "Unlearn". If you don't have a hardware knob, you can record these movements with the mouse by moving the controls in the interface, but it's a whole lot less fun. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 11:50:51
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Thanks for your suggestions. Where it gets confusing for me is that there are three factors involved. 1 The hardware controller 2. The Host application and 3. The instrument software (ex.Kontakt Player, Aria Player etc) and how they work together. My Nektar LX 61 controller has Bend and Mod wheels, so how, for instance, if I'm using a trumpet patch from Garritan Jazz & Big Band and I want to make it do a "fall off" (which Garritan's user's manual tells me is CC#15) how and what do I manipulate to make the last trumpet note fall off? JB
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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TheMaartian
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 12:05:24
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2016/04/07 16:33:51
Check out these two videos by Mike Verta.
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dcumpian
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 14:29:05
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Yeah, those videos are a really great overview. I couldn't remember Mike's name this morning. To automate CC15, your controller must be able to send midi CC15 on one of it's knobs/ribbons/sliders. Ususally, you can set them to send whatever you want. Alternatively, you can add an automation track to your midi track and select CC15 from the list of controllers. After that, use the mouse to draw what you want. It is easier with a hardware device. If your midi keyboard doesn't have configurable controls, you can buy something just for that pretty cheap. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 15:51:50
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Yeah. I forgot to mention that my KB also has 8 knobs and 9 faders. It also came with software that makes it so that I can use those faders and knobs specifically with Sonar (or Reason, which I also use). I'm a bit afraid to do that because I'm afraid I'll make some kind of change to Sonar that would make it unusable. That's why even though I have Toontrack's EZ Drummer version 2, I won't install it over version 1 because when I bought it and tried to install it last year all kinds of hell broke loose and it took me a while to get things back to where I could use Sonar again. I can use the KB to program notes and velocity, and the pitch bend works and when I move the Mod wheel, the numbers on the display change. But the knobs and faders I'm too afraid to mess with, for now anyway. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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TheMaartian
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 16:59:26
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If you have that level of fear/concern, you could create a Restore point in Windows and then give it a go. Before you do, how about telling us specifically which keyboard (Make and Model) and what specific software you are referring to (for working with SONAR and Reason). We can give you better/more precise help if you do. And PC/OS specs. See my signature below for an example of what you can do, so it's part of every one of your posts and responders don't have to shoot with their eyes closed.
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
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Johnbee58
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 19:05:44
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I've fitted as much as I can on my signature. That's not all of it but I think it's enough for the purpose here. JB
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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TheMaartian
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/07 19:46:41
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You shouldn't have any trouble using the LX61 (I have their P6, and it works great). If SONAR-specific software exists, I didn't see it (I saw S1, FL, Reason and Cubase). Even if it does exist, I'd recommend against using it. You can do just fine with the default driver and MIDI Learn. SONAR is weak when it comes to supporting external controllers. Search for AZSlow on this forum, and check out his website and free app for SONAR. http://www.azslow.com/
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
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Kamikaze
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/08 13:00:20
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You can see what CC a controller is sending by recording a track and moving just that controller. Then open the Event view to see what CC was recorded.
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flutejoe
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Re: Learning MIDI CC
2016/04/09 05:52:22
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A MIDI breath controller is what you need for realistic horns (and in general woodwinds/brass, but not only). Here are some of videos:
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