Helpful ReplyGeneral advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup

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NotYouAgain
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2016/04/11 06:13:02 (permalink)

General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup

Hello everybody.
Sorry if this reads as a long winded post, but I found you don't get good advice unless the people you are asking it from know the details.
I'm new to the forums, but have been visiting them on and off for several years.
Always meant to get into home recording, but "life" happened along the way, so never have managed it....but I'm determined to do it now.
 
A few months ago I built a PC for Graphic processing [Photoshop/ Lightroom], but it hasn't been getting that much use, and is basically underutilized.
So, since I play guitar and other string instruments [No Uke], and the price point for a capable DAW and good control Interfaces are now NOT as astronomical as they used to be, I thought I might as well bight the bullet and duel purpose this PC.
 
The spec's pf this PC are i7 4790 [I could upgrade it to newer 'K' 'overclockable version' if deemed worthwhile- I somehow doubt it], Gigabyte H97 gaming 3 M/Board, 32 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 970 GC, 2 X Samsung 850 Pro SSD's, 1 X WD Green 2TB HD.
 
I've got Win 8.1 [trying to stop MS installing Win 10, and will if I have my way ], and apart from Photoshop & Lightroom there is basically nothing else installed on this machine.
 
I want to purchase and run Sonar Platinum, as I figure the learning curve is going to be steep [Yet Again] anyway, pointless learning a slightly reduced version of Sonar [Last time I was at the nearly buy in stage, it was Sonar 6 , I even bought Sonar Power  and Cakewalk Synths books to learn them beforehand.... stuff happens ]
 
I'm building this home studio [apart from the PC] from scratch, so please consider any advice given as if you were to build from scratch yourself, with today's most current  gear
 
From pursuing the forum [ And Sound on Sound reviews ], a likely candidate for a suitable USB interface for my needs would be a Steinberg UR44.
I haven't decided on a controller keyboard [ I basically want to create soundtracks type music], and being a Guitarist first and foremost, really wouldn't know what would be suitable] Go For it, all advice welcome.
 
Plug-in's I'll want to run, well basically anything and all by Cinematique Instruments.

I figure I wouldn't need much else given what's included with S/Plat, as long as I choose wisely on which 3 A/Drums packages I choose.
 
Vocals & Acoustic guitar/ string instruments could be recorded from a separate room, so noise from the PC picked up by  microphones shouldn't be a issue.
I'll probably get a hardware controller to run Sonar.... after looking through the forum, and Sound On Sound forum/ reviews/ archives.... I was thinking of opting for the Behringer X-Touch [nice price - does the Job ?], but after watching these two videos.

 

I think I'll opt for the Mackie Control pro ... I'm nearing retirement age, I can't BB messing around mapping the X-Touch so it works NEARLY as well as the Mackie.[Having to disengage all but the one wanted track to zoom in on that specific track to edit it-see video 2 , was what turned me off]
I'd rather spend the $$ and not have to trouble shoot.
 
Having built HTPC's [well all my PC's] I know certain windows functions can cause gltiches in playback, so some windows functions are best turned off, likewise to save system resources.
I suspect the same is [still] true with recording.
 
So, how best to configure this PC for the applications ahead?
I guess NOT having the PC connected to the internet whilst recording would be one of the big ones, also turning auto update off for programs would be another.
If there is a specific recommend windows configuration thread that is up to date, could somebody please link ?
What functions/uses tend to cause noise problems [clicks/ pops etc] within Sonar when they are engaged? [Don't say none because I won't believe you ]
 
The questions I have below are on things I am unsure about, and basically don't know [things have changed in intervening years, from when I did know] .
I prefer to build my PC's with a separate OS drive, and if possible run all other programs off a separate internal drive used only for that purpose, this saves possible OS & registry corruption, and makes a clean install far less painful if it just has to be done.
 
Q1: Can Sonar be installed in this way?.... Any drawbacks to doing so? If not, what sized drive is recommended , with some sort of future proofing ?
 
Q2: Where should one install sample libraries? On a separate drive? ...best practice? What drive size is recommended for samples? How fast access do the sample drives need to be [what is the slowest you can get away with is more the question? ]
 
Q3: Photoshop & Lightroom both can have a 'Scratch Drive' assigned to them for them to do the work on [one of my Samsung 850 pro's are assigned as such] does Sonar work in the same way? can it be configured to use a scratch drive as a work space?
Can the VRAM of my Graphics card be utilized by Sonar, like it can be by PS/LR? [expecting NO ]
 
Q4: Any  [ 'Best practice] pointers regarding delegating system resources for specific tasks or to reduce possible system noise?
 
Q5: Any [ Best Practice ] on using multiple screens to run Sonar and soft synths [My GC can run 3 monitors...should I even bother considering it? ] Would you, if you could, run as many monitors as possible, or is too much INFO decremental to productivity? [Sort of ends up like a too involved in the garage with the engine , rather than ever driving the car situation]
 
If anybody has actually got to the bottom of this post and is actually reading this. well thank you for your perseverance, or lack of something else to do 
Double thanks if any forum members can link me to forum posts that can help me out, if not answer the questions asked directly.
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 
#1
fireberd
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/11 08:31:43 (permalink)
My general "2 cents".
1.  I like Win 10 over Win 8/8.1.  Win 10 seems to be what Win 8 should have been.  On Win 8/8.1 I used "Start8" for menus (made it look/act like Win 7) but on Win 10 that is not needed.   My useable (reliable) latency for my Roland Octa Capture has been reduced from 6 to 4ms.  All my hardware and software that worked on Win 7/8/8.1 is compatible and works with Win 10.
 
2.  I have a UR44 (my backup unit) and it has Win 10 drivers.
 
3.  I have the OS and Sonar Platinum loaded on my OS drive (an EVO 850 SSD) and Sonar Projects, etc on a 1TB hard drive.  (I have some applications such as Band-in-a-Box installed on the 1TB hard drive and operate it from there).
 
4. Other than setting the power plan to High Performance and disabling standby (the only item I have on "standby" is to power off the monitor after 1 hour) I haven't really done any tweaking.  The PC was originally built for Win 7 and then dual boot with Win 8/8.1 (and now dual boot with Win 7/Win 10) and no other tweaking has ever been done.  I do disable the NIC (internet) when using Sonar, but even that may not be needed.   I am a (retired) PC tech so my PC is basically a "vanilla" system. 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
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#2
bitflipper
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/11 11:37:27 (permalink)
My, that was a long first post. So many questions, but all good ones. Pardon my less-verbose replies, in no particular order...
 
1. That PC will make a fine DAW
2. Windows 10 is superior to 8.1
3. Yes, some third-party plugins (e.g. FabFilter, Meldaproduction) do make use of your GPU, but most do not. 
4. Multiple video displays are VERY helpful and highly recommended. However, keep in mind that you do not want them to impinge on the line-of-sight to your speakers, so that will limit the size of your monitors.
5. SSDs don't really do a lot for DAW performance, with one notable exception: sample libraries. If you're wondering where to get the best bang:buck ratio for SSD space, put your sample-based virtual instruments there. Sample libraries are big; some are over 30 GB, and even a bunch of smaller ones add up fast. Figure on at least 500 GB to start.
6. There is no problem installing SONAR and your other music software somewhere other than C:, and keeping the O/S drive pristine. Ideally, you'll want to keep audio files and sample libraries on separate disks for best disk efficiency. Where you install SONAR is less-important, but you may find the path of least resistance is to put it, and add-on plugins, on the C: drive. That's where they want to install themselves anyway, and they don't take up much space.
7. Most of us don't have luxury of separate tracking and control rooms, and many actually prefer to do everything in one room. But you're right about computer noise being a potential problem. Some cases are quieter than others, but since you're not building the DAW PC from scratch you'll have to work with what you've got. The good news it's not that hard to do, as long as your room isn't too small. 
8. Audio interfaces are generally very high quality these days, so choose yours primarily on features, e.g. number of channels and vendor reputation. If money is no object, RME represents the high end of the consumer range. You can spend more but it's not necessary, and you can spend less without making any serious compromises.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#3
tomixornot
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/11 20:03:39 (permalink)
Most of us also run this DPC Latency Checker to check if there is any problem that can be fine tuned on our DAW PC, but it's only good up to Windows 7. They are working on a new version to be compatible with Windows 8 (and 10 hopefully).
 
It's a good read and you will also find out a good way to optimize your DAW PC even without running the checker (basically turning off your wifi). With the recommendations posted above, you may find that with a fast processor and newer Windows you may not have to tune it much.
 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Albert


i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz / MB Intel DP67BG / 16GB Ram
- ADATA 250GB SSD (Boot)
- Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD (Samples)
Audio interface : Motu 828 MK ii
 
i7 6700K @ 4.00GHz / MB Asrock Z170 / 16GB Ram
- Samsung EVO 850 120GB / 500 GB SSD

Audio interface : Roland Quad Capture
 
Win 10 Pro / Sonar Platinum
#4
tomixornot
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/12 00:09:21 (permalink)
Just read the post by fireberd

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3399147

This supports Windows 10

Albert


i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz / MB Intel DP67BG / 16GB Ram
- ADATA 250GB SSD (Boot)
- Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD (Samples)
Audio interface : Motu 828 MK ii
 
i7 6700K @ 4.00GHz / MB Asrock Z170 / 16GB Ram
- Samsung EVO 850 120GB / 500 GB SSD

Audio interface : Roland Quad Capture
 
Win 10 Pro / Sonar Platinum
#5
ston
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/19 04:31:47 (permalink)
> So, how best to configure this PC for the applications ahead?
 
I'd press the power button, job done.  Separate physical drive from the OS for recording to.  Separate physical drive again for the swap & hibernate files.  That's about it.
 
> I guess NOT having the PC connected to the internet whilst recording
 
Why?  What do you think will happen?
 
> turning auto update off for programs would be another.
 
I always set that to being as 'manual' as possible, at least that way you can vet which updates to install, and when to install them.
 
Other than the 'will you please stop nagging me to upgrade?!' aspect of W10, it's an improvement over 8/8.1  Just disable Cortana, install Classic Shell if you think it's needed (a must, IMO, for W8), set updates to manual, do not install flash and you're good to go.
 
[ed] Personally, I'd got for a PCIe based interface rather than USB.  My own PC's USB subsystem is rather heavily burdened, but my interface is actually on a PCI bus and works flawlessly even though the USB performance does suffer at times.  Depends what else you're going to use USB for; if little or nothing then USB should be fine.
post edited by ston - 2016/04/19 04:52:58
#6
Sanderxpander
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/19 14:22:00 (permalink)
I concur with most of the other posts. Mostly you don't need to do any customizing, especially since your system is already pretty streamlined. I have never had any problem with my RME UCX which runs on USB. I've also hooked up a Madiface USB to my laptop at a gig and had no problem recording 48 tracks at 48KHz 24 bit from a DigiCo SD7 mixing desk. I suppose if you're planning to stream lots of samples over disks connected to USB it might be an issue.
 
EDIT:
Oh one thing I'd recommend if you're planning to do a considerable amount of vocal recording is to upgrade to the full Editor version (or even Studio version) of Melodyne, if they offer you a deal. The integration with Sonar is excellent and you can do some great things with it.
post edited by Sanderxpander - 2016/04/19 14:43:10
#7
JonD
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/19 19:29:43 (permalink)
ston
...
[ed] Personally, I'd got for a PCIe based interface rather than USB.  My own PC's USB subsystem is rather heavily burdened, but my interface is actually on a PCI bus and works flawlessly even though the USB performance does suffer at times.  Depends what else you're going to use USB for; if little or nothing then USB should be fine.

 
This is a tad confusing.  Are you saying he should go for a PCIe interface?  There aren't a lot of those to choose from, and what there is, is expensive.  Your description seems to suggest, however, that he use a PCIe USB add-on card for the USB interface.  If that's what you meant, I wholeheartedly agree.
 
Firewire is another great option.  Lots of interface choices.  And I'd still do the PCIe add-on card (only, of course, with firewire); the card sidesteps any possible issues with onboard FW (assuming there is even onboard FW), and perhaps most importantly, future-proofs the interface since PCIe isn't going away anytime soon.  

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#8
Sanderxpander
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/20 01:53:43 (permalink)
Firewire is a bad choice because it's on its way out. It will work fine on this OS if you get a good PCI/FW card. But there's no telling about the future. Not to mention if you'd ever want to use the interface on location with a laptop. For maximum compatibility, USB is the way to go. The problems that used to plague the first generation of USB interfaces are gone. If the Madiface USB can stream 64 tracks of audio simultaneously over USB reliably, I have no further questions. 
#9
ston
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/21 08:51:27 (permalink)
JonD
This is a tad confusing.  Are you saying he should go for a PCIe interface?  There aren't a lot of those to choose from, and what there is, is expensive.  Your description seems to suggest, however, that he use a PCIe USB add-on card for the USB interface.  If that's what you meant, I wholeheartedly agree.

 
No, that is not what I meant.
 
What I was saying is that if you are going to connect a great many devices via USB to your computer, then a USB-based audio interface solution might suffer.  In that case, your suggestion of USB on a PCIe card won't really make any difference; even if it provides another host controller (unknown..?) which is on the PCI bus anyway, that will probably help share the load on the USB bus a bit but *not* on the system.  Each USB endpoint (and each device attached via USB can have multiple endpoints) is polled every time the USB loop runs, so even apparently 'idle, doing nothing' devices are taking up USB bandwidth.  Doesn't matter if you're talking about USB ports on the motherboard or on a PCIe add-on card.
 
I have something daft like 12 USB devices (probably of the order of ~30 endpoints) attached via 8 (i.e. all of them)
USB ports on my PC; a USB audio interface solution would not be good for my set-up which is why my audio cards are PCI based (getting on a bit too now, but still pretty amazing).
 
I agree PCIe based audio interface cards are somewhat expensive, but I don't know what the OP's budget is and the additional cost will potentially bring some benefits.  Depends on the demands that the user will be placing on the system.
 
If you're going to attach nothing via USB other than the audio interface (probably mouse and kb too most likely), then a USB solution will probably be fine.
post edited by ston - 2016/04/21 09:15:54
#10
Sanderxpander
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/21 10:58:22 (permalink)
It's worth pointing out, true, but I don't think in 99 percent of case this is realistically a problem. Meanwhile, there are several big advantages to USB based interfaces.
#11
Jim Roseberry
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/21 11:24:19 (permalink)
There are means of dealing with lots of USB peripherals.
First, if you have numerous USB dongles (or other low bandwidth peripherals), those can be placed on a USB hub.
 
What you don't want is your audio interface sharing a Root Hub with another higher bandwidth peripheral (HD or SSD).  As long as this isn't happening, your USB audio interface will be fine.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#12
mettelus
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/21 11:55:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Kev999 2016/04/23 03:35:20
My only concern with the OP is that it seems to be an "all in" mindset, yet acknowledges the "steep learning curve" and "under utilization of Photoshop and Lightroom." First advice is to be realistic with expectations and start small.
  1. Your system is fine, no need to overclock.
  2. You can allocate folders as desired for the most part.
  3. Rather than rack up a massive bill at the outset, it would be more prudent to test the waters, learn the program, and get your workflow solidified (you can always upgrade both programs and hardware at a later date).
  4. System optimization is often a case-by-case basis depending on drivers and software installed on a machine. As things come online and you learn more, this forum is about the best resource to tweaking it.
  5. As you mentioned Photoshop/Lightroom, I am not sure if this is as part of Adobe's Creative Suite or not (and which version)? If you also have access to Audition, the noise reduction tools there will alleviate most issues with "noise." If you are on CC, I would not recommend this specifically, as you can buy CS5.5/6.0 Audition outright and get the same tools if desired (with the CC version, you will pay for life).
  6. The biggest "need" is an audio interface, possibly MIDI controller, and a DAW application. Again, all of these can be upgraded in the future, so a realistic approach would be advised.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#13
SuperG
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/21 18:30:35 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
What you don't want is your audio interface sharing a Root Hub with another higher bandwidth peripheral (HD or SSD).  As long as this isn't happening, your USB audio interface will be fine.



+1 
 
That's it in a nutshell.

laudem Deo
#14
Rimshot
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/22 16:18:46 (permalink)
You should call Jim Roseberry before you commit to any PC. He's got the experience and answers to really help you.
http://www.studiocat.com/

Rimshot 

Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 
, OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
#15
Kev999
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Re: General advice on best configuration of new i7 based PC and SONAR setup 2016/04/23 03:34:37 (permalink)
I would recommend spending some time getting hands-on experience before pursuing major purchases of serious gear. Otherwise you run the risk of ending up with an expensive setup that doesn't properly suit your way of working. I agree with Mettelus. Take a piecemeal approach, one step at a time.

SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
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Having fun at work lately
#16
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