revnice1
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Level question
Sonar 8.5.3
I've got some brass in a track with no effects in that track's bin. I send the brass to a bus (BRASS) that does not yet contain any effects - and the level is significantly lower. Why, I haven't done anything to anything yet?
I'm judging 'level' by the volume not by the VU meters.
Thanks - rev
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dannyjmusic
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Re: Level question
2016/04/13 19:36:18
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The track was being sent probably to the master bus to begin with....maybe the effects on master or the gain or volume on master are boosting the volume and there's nothing to boost the volume on the brass bus
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/13 20:24:46
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I've attached an image but in case you can't see it, here's the story: http://s20.postimg.org/pkvot74gt/levels.jpgDrum track Volume is at -7 resulting in a level of about -12 > that's sent to the Master Master has Volume at 0 and the level is -19 WITH a compressor set to thresh -10! It should be blowing my head off but it's lower with more vol and compression.
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tenfoot
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Re: Level question
2016/04/13 22:43:05
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I don't use that particular plugin but I notice you have autogain engaged which may be increasing the gain if it is on on the master bus?
Try taking all of the FX out of the chain and see if the levels match.
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 07:34:18
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>which may be increasing the gain if it is on on the master bus?
Exactly! So why, after more volume in the master and an increase in gain from the plug, is the level lower?
>Try taking all of the FX out of the chain and see if the levels match.
Did that and the level on the master is even lower (-24 or more)
None of it makes sense.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 08:20:19
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What happens if you take the plug out of the equation?
Otherwise, perhaps some changes in offset mode? Or your bus input gain is down?
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 08:39:13
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>What happens if you take the plug out of the equation?
It's worse, the plug is pulling the level up. Take it out and level is lower.
>Or your bus input gain is down?
Were you able to see the pic? Bus vol is at 0 and so is Trim.
What's offset mode? :)
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 08:43:02
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Sorry do buses in Sonar 8 not have an input gain as well as an output fader? I forgot when those appeared.
EDIT :
Oh sorry I probably mean "trim", I've been on the X series for a long time now and things look a little different. Offset mode allows you to "offset" fader values with another "hidden" set of faders. The idea is to make it easier to modify global levels after applying automation curves. I think you can switch to offset mode by hitting O. Little plus signs should appear next to the faders in the console view.
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 08:51:21
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>do buses in Sonar 8 not have an input gain as well as an output fader?
I really don't know, I work exclusively in the Track View. I think the equivalent in the Track View is Volume and Trim. Whatever the story is, you should be able to send to a bus and see and hear the same level as the source assuming there are no plugs involved.
My bus meter is set to RMS so the level shown will be less than the source but I should still hear the same volume and I'm not. I use the MPL1-Pro in the Master bus instead of Cakewalk's Boost 11 or similar.
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bitflipper
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 09:50:03
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/04/14 10:47:27
What I see is the output of the drum bus and the input of the MPL-1 in agreement (~ -11 dB), as expected. The reduction is happening between the input of the limiter and its output, meaning the volume drop is occurring within the limiter.
Although its threshold is set to -10 dB, a 1.5 ms lookahead is enabled and its "smoothing" parameter is 2 ms. These allow the limiter to start compression below the actual threshold to avoid distortion from abruptly clamping down the signal. In all likelihood, the limiter is engaged nearly all of the time. I'd just compensate for it with makeup gain and not worry about it.
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 12:13:55
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That's the conclusion I've come to. There doesn't seem to be an alternative and make-up gain does solve the problem. Strange though.
Thanks.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 17:31:55
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You said it's worse without the plugin. So the problem is not happening in the plugin, it's happening in the output stage of the bus which, again, leads me to suspect offset mode.
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revnice1
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 18:29:11
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You're right, it is worse without the plug - but I don't know what offset mode is.
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John
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Re: Level question
2016/04/14 21:08:24
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☄ Helpfulby Slugbaby 2016/05/13 10:01:13
If you typed "O" you put Sonar in Offset mode. Below is from the manual.
Envelope mode and Offset mode
There are two modes which control how your volume faders, pan faders, bus send faders, and bus send pan
faders behave during playback. The two modes are Envelope mode and Offset mode.
Envelope mode. In envelope mode, volume and pan faders follow the project’s automation and do not respond
to changes you make in real-time.
Offset mode. In Offset mode, you “offset” the current automation in a track using a parameter’s controls. For
example, if a pan envelope is set to hard left (100% left) and you adjust the pan in offset mode to 100% right, then
the pan parameter is now set to hard right. Setting the pan in offset mode to 50% right would set the pan to the
center.
Note: Any position that you set a fader to in Offset mode remains in effect when you switch back to Envelope
mode. For example, if you set a volume fader to -INF while in Offset mode, switch to Envelope mode and
drag the fader to its maximum level, you will not hear anything.
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jimkleban
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Re: Level question
2016/05/13 09:09:30
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And OFFSET is useful how? Just trying to understand why this tool exists. I can't tell you how many times I had OFFSET mode on and didn't realize it. Usually took some extreme situation that mixing moves didn't have the result that I anticipated. Oh, the "O" was accidentally pressed somewhere along the line.
Jim
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Level question
2016/05/13 09:40:50
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☄ Helpfulby Slugbaby 2016/05/13 10:01:20
Offset is extremely useful if you have a track that's been heavily automated with a complex envelope but you now want to raise or lower the level of the whole track by a given amount.
Engage offset mode (all faders will jump to zero, over-riding the automation), make the change(s) you want on your selected track and then disengage offset mode. The faders will now snap back to where they were previously.
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