SiberianKhatru59
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Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
Forgive the (likely) stupid question, but does SONAR have a Maximizer similar to say Izotope Ozone? I am admittedly dead stupid when it comes to this kind of thing, but I am trying to learn :)
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dantarbill
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 14:39:43
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/04/14 14:57:38
If by Maximizer, you mean Limiter, there is...
Boost 11
Limiter LM2S (frankly...I've never even SEEN this)
Brickwall BW-2S (It's there, but I haven't tried it)
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 14:59:13
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dantarbill
If by Maximizer, you mean Limiter, there is...
Boost 11
Limiter LM2S (frankly...I've never even SEEN this)
Brickwall BW-2S (It's there, but I haven't tried it)
So then would it be correct to that that there is not really a Maximizer per say, but the tools to accomplish similar results?
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Sylvan
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 15:22:20
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/04/14 15:45:00
SONAR has three included limiter/maximizers. You can also purchase separately the very nice Concrete Limiter Pro Channel module.
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dantarbill
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 15:58:39
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SiberianKhatru59
dantarbill
If by Maximizer, you mean Limiter, there is...
Boost 11
Limiter LM2S (frankly...I've never even SEEN this)
Brickwall BW-2S (It's there, but I haven't tried it)
So then would it be correct to that that there is not really a Maximizer per say, but the tools to accomplish similar results?
I think Maximizer is just name that iZotope uses for one of the limiters in Ozone. (It would appear that other one is "Vintage Limiter", which I guess limits you if you're old...as if being old isn't limiting enough.) I typically use Voxengo's Elephant...probably just because it's become a habit...and it seems to work well.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 17:40:50
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As was explained, a "maximizer" isn't really a universal name for an audio effect, although it can be inferred that it's a brickwall limiter. Sonar comes with several. Whether you like it as much as you like Ozone is up to you. Ozone is a pretty nice package but I honestly wouldn't recommend doing your own mastering. If you need something "quick and dirty" the Sonar stuff should work.
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Afrodrum
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/14 18:04:10
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/11/29 10:08:04
I think maximizers such as made by Izotope or Waves or whoever are a FX Chains of several compressor/limiters. Go to Craig Anderton Friday Tips, he beautifully explains how to make one out of Sonar stock plugins.
post edited by Afrodrum - 2016/04/15 17:39:52
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Pragi
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/15 04:12:56
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The Sonar (what version is yours?) included Limiters will give you everything you need to master . If you have learned and want other sound-colours in your tracks , there are other vst limiter and maximizer available. free and compareable to Waves L1 is : http://www.audiopluginsforfree.com/w1-limiter/or another good one: Limiter No.6 https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/ Payware there are very good vst limiters from voxengo elephant ,ozone , t-racks, slate ,weiss and hofa (must be uncountable )available.
post edited by Pragi - 2016/04/15 08:56:28
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AllanH
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 11:21:32
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Audacity has the ability to scale a finished audio file so that max peak is e.g. at -3 db, 0 db, or whatever you choose. That's a simple way to not deal with absolutes while creating, and simply post-process to level tracks to a particular db.
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dantarbill
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 11:25:14
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/04/22 14:42:51
AllanH
Audacity has the ability to scale a finished audio file so that max peak is e.g. at -3 db, 0 db, or whatever you choose. That's a simple way to not deal with absolutes while creating, and simply post-process to level tracks to a particular db.
In SONAR that would be Process/Apply Effect/Normalize...
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 12:01:46
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☼ Best Answerby SiberianKhatru59 2016/11/29 10:09:22
Something like Ozone's Maximizer, or the Waves L-series plug-ins, are not traditional limiters but multiband limiters. This is why the sound is louder but doesn't sound "squashed." I use limiters like the Concrete Limiter for individual tracks, but not for program material as Multiband Limiters give a more transparent sound. There is no multiband limiter per se in SONAR although the LP-64 Multiband Compressor takes you most of the way there. The most recent SONAR update had multiband processing track templates, and as pointed out above, there is a tip on how to create multiband dynamics processing in Friday's Tip of the Week. There's even an audio example, although it's kind of exaggerated to show a dramatic difference...normally you'd use it more subtly. Now that Patch Points exist, I really should make a multiband limiting track template.
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AllanH
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 17:38:14
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dantarbill
AllanH
Audacity has the ability to scale a finished audio file so that max peak is e.g. at -3 db, 0 db, or whatever you choose. That's a simple way to not deal with absolutes while creating, and simply post-process to level tracks to a particular db.
In SONAR that would be Process/Apply Effect/Normalize...
Interesting - thank you. I always thought that required rendering everything to audio, then Process/apply.../Normalize followed by Export, but if it can be done as part of the rendering/export process, that sounds good. I'll take a look.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 18:38:14
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Craig, I may be missing some cleverness, but with the available tools I don't think it's possible to "create" a true multiband limiting track template, at least not in the way the Waves L-series and its ilk work - intelligently compressing different frequency ranges while aiming at a set total loudness output. How would you go about this?
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 21:21:18
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☄ Helpfulby Thedoccal 2016/04/16 22:54:38
Sanderxpander
Craig, I may be missing some cleverness, but with the available tools I don't think it's possible to "create" a true multiband limiting track template, at least not in the way the Waves L-series and its ilk work - intelligently compressing different frequency ranges while aiming at a set total loudness output. How would you go about this?
Split the audio into four tracks using patch points. Insert an LP-64 into each track, but set up as a crossover instead of as a compressor so you have four independent frequency bands. Apply a Concrete Limiter at each band's output and voila, multiband limiting. Check out the multiband track templates in the last update, although they use the Sonitus multiband compressor as a crossover. Same principle, though.
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rodreb
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/16 23:32:48
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Different strokes for different folks I guess but.... I use the Concrete Limiter for Mastering bus limiting all the time. I love it. I used to use Sonnox and Waves limiters but, I like the CL better. Whatever....
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 03:30:22
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Craig, I understand what you're doing here but while that will limit individual bands perfectly, every individual band doesn't know what's happening in the other bands and none of them see the "total picture" which I think is the idea behind the L-series. Your mid band peak might be offset by your sub band dip for instance. Hope you understand what I'm getting at.
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Pragi
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 09:51:33
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Anderton
Sanderxpander
Craig, I may be missing some cleverness, but with the available tools I don't think it's possible to "create" a true multiband limiting track template, at least not in the way the Waves L-series and its ilk work - intelligently compressing different frequency ranges while aiming at a set total loudness output. How would you go about this?
Split the audio into four tracks using patch points. Insert an LP-64 into each track, but set up as a crossover instead of as a compressor so you have four independent frequency bands. Apply a Concrete Limiter at each band's output and voila, multiband limiting.
Check out the multiband track templates in the last update, although they use the Sonitus multiband compressor as a crossover. Same principle, though.
Mister Craig, it seems that you prefer a multiband Limiter over a "normal" limiter. If so this is astonishing me cause til now I avoided to use multiband compression during the mastering process remembering a basic sentence which I heart in every mastering class aso I visted: If you have to use a multiband limter during the mastering process, it´s a sign that the mix is not well balanced - or a similar assertion. What do you think about it?
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 10:06:09
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Sanderxpander
Craig, I understand what you're doing here but while that will limit individual bands perfectly, every individual band doesn't know what's happening in the other bands and none of them see the "total picture" which I think is the idea behind the L-series. Your mid band peak might be offset by your sub band dip for instance. Hope you understand what I'm getting at.
Yes, according to a review of the L3 in Sound on Sound, "The clever part of the design lies in the relationship between the peak detection and the attenuation. Conventional multi-band limiters split the signal into separate frequency bands and then limit each band independently. Here, however, the level in all five frequency bands is summed using a patent-pending algorithm Waves call the Peak Limiting Mixer. If, at a given instant, this sum exceeds the Threshold value, L3 works out the amount of attenuation that is needed and intelligently distributes it across the different frequency bands. By default, the bands that are attenuated the most are those that contain the most energy, but it's also possible to instruct L3 to concentrate the gain reduction in frequency bands where you think it will be less noticeable. The result, at least in theory, is that you can apply more overall limiting with fewer audible consequences." It's true that a conventional multiband limiter does not do exactly the same thing. However if you don't apply much limiting, being able to "apply more overall limiting with fewer audible consequences" may or may not matter to you.
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 10:14:55
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☄ Helpfulby joel77 2016/04/17 13:00:29
Pragi
it seems that you prefer a multiband Limiter over a "normal" limiter.
If so this is astonishing me cause til now I avoided to use multiband compression during the mastering process I don't use multiband compression during mastering, the purpose of the multiband compressor mentioned above is to serve as a crossover to split the audio into bands; there's no compression applied. I use multiband limiting to keep peaks under control and get a little more level. remembering a basic sentence which I heart in every mastering class aso I visted:
If you have to use a multiband limter during the mastering process,
it´s a sign that the mix is not well balanced - or a similar assertion.
What do you think about it? Two things. - If you're a mastering engineer, you will receive mixes that are not well balanced. In that case, multiband limiting is sometimes used more like a multiband equalizer that happens to be able to do dynamics control.
- In order to be competitive in "the loudness wars," multiband dynamics can take a well-balanced mix and make it a louder well-balanced mix. Whether you want to be competitive in the loudness wars is a whole other discussion, but for DJs who need to crossfade between cuts, or typical consumers who use playlists, you don't want an extreme volume drop when the song you mastered starts playing.
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Pragi
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 10:20:33
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thanks for your patient and rapid reply.
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/17 10:24:29
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No problem! I should add that multiband compression can have its uses as well, like when doing commercials where being heard is the most important factor as opposed to creating a pleasing musical experience. You can also do amazing things on drum overhead and room mics with multiband compression.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/22 08:55:43
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Wow, what great info. I got seriously sidetracked by RL, but I appreciate the explanations and clarifications about what exactly a so-called maximizer actually is. I am just a hobbyist, but this stuff is incredibly interesting to me and I'll be checking out Craig's Friday tips and figuring out how this all works.
I just watched a video from Cakewalk where they are touting an upcoming release of two mastering plugins, an upgraded EQ and a multi-band compressor. It seems like it's worth waiting for these before I woould buy anything because in that demo, they looked very cool and I learned a lot from watching that. If I were 20 again (I am so NOT 20 anymore), I would dive headlong into this stuff and make a career out of it I swear -- but at 57, I figure they aren't looking for AARP eligible rookies in the music industry :)
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Anderton
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/22 11:02:46
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SiberianKhatru59
I just watched a video from Cakewalk where they are touting an upcoming release of two mastering plugins, an upgraded EQ and a multi-band compressor. It seems like it's worth waiting for these before I woould buy anything because in that demo, they looked very cool and I learned a lot from watching that.
I've been working extensively with the LP EQ, and Cakewalk really outdid themselves on this one. Can't wait to check out what they've brought to the Multiband Compressor.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/22 11:48:03
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Just a note, you don't actually need to wait to buy because you basically buy Sonar monthly now. If you buy a whole year in one go, it starts when you pay so if you buy now you'll get them anyway.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/22 13:37:51
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Sanderxpander
Just a note, you don't actually need to wait to buy because you basically buy Sonar monthly now. If you buy a whole year in one go, it starts when you pay so if you buy now you'll get them anyway.
Having just taken advantage of the special rate offered via email, I am actually now paid until January 2018 at this point. Looking forward to more great things from Cakewalk, starting with these plugins.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mastering - Does SONAR Platinum have an included Maximizer?
2016/04/22 18:54:29
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Oh sorry you meant wait with buying something else, I read that as wait with buying Sonar until they're available. But yeah, good call.
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