General Question

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skinnybones lampshade
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2016/04/20 23:05:55 (permalink)

General Question

How come, when I'm finally ready to record, do I make so many mistakes?
 
I mess up take after take, although I wrote the @#$% song myself, and you'd think I'd have a clue about how to play and/or sing it.
 
Then every confusing technical difficulty possible seems to leap into play (and record), causing every bit of inspiration to drain away while I try to figure out what's wrong now so that I can get on with it.
 
Next, I become a nasty old dog who barks at my poor cat who only wanted to help out by swatting my (computer) mouse dead as ... as a dormouse (and stepping on the computer power button in the process)!
 
Finally, I write my tale of woe to the forum instead of sucking it up and getting on with the song like any worthwhile person would do.
 
Sheesh ... and this is more than likely in the wrong forum.
 
This is my tale of woe. Now I have nowhere to go.
 
Except .... Maybe back to try again ... But the General Question remains, Why DO I make so many mistakes when I have done everything I can to be prepared to record?  
 
post edited by skinnybones lampshade - 2016/04/20 23:28:01
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27 Replies Related Threads

    JayCee99
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/20 23:09:30 (permalink)
    The same thing happens to me.

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    #2
    John
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/20 23:16:00 (permalink)
    We can get anxious when we start recording. That can cause us to do just the opposite of what we should do and can do.  
     
    Its the human condition a natural part of human life.  

    Best
    John
    #3
    Anderton
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/20 23:27:48 (permalink)
    You're overthinking it. Please come to my "Recording on the Fast Track" seminar if you'll be at this year's Summer NAMM.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #4
    Snehankur
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 00:46:01 (permalink)
    Don't think so much.
    Create the first song..... then note the mistakes you have done.
    Create the second song.... then note the mistakes ..
     
    Find the mistakes you are repeating.. Take a print out with font size 36. Paste it on the wall.
     
    Create the third song .. you will find the difference.
     
    [I did it...]
    #5
    Snehankur
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 00:46:45 (permalink)
    Anderton
    You're overthinking it. Please come to my "Recording on the Fast Track" seminar if you'll be at this year's Summer NAMM.


    Will we have the video posted?
    Regards
    Snehankur
    #6
    MacFurse
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 07:13:44 (permalink)
    Ha!! sorry Skinnybones. Not laughing at you. Just sympathising. Sometimes, I'll pull off some awesome to die for lead solo and my music loving neighbour will put his head over the fence and say "didya get that down on tape mate?"
    Nah is the answer nearly every time. can't seem to pull them off when the big red button is lit...........after 45 years of playing live, you'd think it'd be a piece of cake.
     
    I can tell you one thing I've tried that works for me however. Deny yourself the looping and cut and paste for a session. One take only allowed. Take a break, have a coffee or whatever, walk in fresh, and cut your take. Do this until you get it right. For me, it gives some form of mind control that makes me get it right, just as if playing live.
    I'm two songs now into a new album using this method, and I've not re-timed or Melodyne'd a single track yet (though the piano tracks are yet to come, and I'm not so good at those). The time saving alone in not having to wade my way through lanes and lanes of takes has been worth it alone. I'm knocking songs out faster than I ever have before. I'm also using a similar method for my vocalists and the results have been fantastic. You just have to find something that works for you.

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    #7
    MarioD
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 08:20:24 (permalink)
    The dreaded red light syndrome! A very command illness!  Been there - done that - still have it!
     
    What I find that helps a lot is to not look at the computer screen while you are recording.  During a count in turn around and just play with the music.  YMMV.
     
     
     

    The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
     
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    #8
    Slugbaby
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 09:50:04 (permalink)
    We're human, we make mistakes.  Sometimes those mistakes can become new songs or ideas.  It's what keeps computerized music creative.
     
    PS.  Perhaps you forgot to disable the "Enable Human Error" feature in your settings?

    http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
     
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    #9
    skinnybones lampshade
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 10:08:43 (permalink)
    Thanks very much to everybody for the really helpful tips and encouragement. I'm planning to try a few of your suggestions when I try recording again later today.
     
    Even though my post was written partly in fun, it's great to get a boost when you need it. It makes you realize you're not alone when you struggle with some of these things. Thanks again! :)
     
    LJ
     
     
     
    #10
    Anderton
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 12:47:59 (permalink)
    Snehankur
    Anderton
    You're overthinking it. Please come to my "Recording on the Fast Track" seminar if you'll be at this year's Summer NAMM.


    Will we have the video posted?
    Regards
    Snehankur




    That's up to NAMM.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #11
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 13:52:21 (permalink)
    Happens to me all the time too. Having a really quick "forget this take and start over" routine also helps. I generally have to do a few takes even if I thought I prepared enough. 
    #12
    BassDaddy
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 14:02:43 (permalink)
    MarioD
    The dreaded red light syndrome! A very command illness!  Been there - done that - still have it!
     
    What I find that helps a lot is to not look at the computer screen while you are recording.  During a count in turn around and just play with the music.  YMMV.
     
     
     


    That's a really good idea. I'm going to try that. Thanks
     

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    #13
    bitman
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/21 19:13:22 (permalink)
    psych psych
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    rbecker
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 10:04:13 (permalink)
    The OP wrote:
    "Sheesh ... and this is more than likely in the wrong forum."
     
    This question does indeed belong on this forum...because the resolution resides within Sonar.
     
    My first "studio" was a VestaFire 4-track recorder. You may recall that 4-tracks like this used regular cassette audio tapes, and recorded each stereo track as a separate track, and on playback played both sides of the tape at the same time for the total of four track. Trouble was that you had only about two chances to get a track right, or the degradation of the media on that tape track ruined the whole tape.
     
    I can't get nervous any more about bad takes. Between the essentially unlimited number of takes Sonar allows, and the ease of comping, I think the whole thing is -well- a cakewalk.
     
    I do all my personal recording on a loop because I know I want multiple takes. I had a difficult 4-bar section last year that required THIRTY takes before I was happy! I kid you not.
     
    The trick is getting out of a "performance" or maybe more accurately "rehearsal" mentality when recording. My wife has this problem...She has a wonderful classical voice - Ten times better than mine - But she will stop singing during a session if she perceives a momentary problem, like a missed note or wrong word...then I yell "Keep singing!..Keep singing!".
     
    I responded to a post a while back with a trick I use to combat fatigue, but will repeat it here because it might also help with the head game. I will often not record a tune in a linear manner. Here is how I may record "Row, Row, Row Boat" as the backing track is playing in the background:
     
    TAKE1:
    "Row, row, row your boat"
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily"
    <no singing>
    TAKE2:
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Gently down the stream"
    <no singing>
    "Life is but a dream"
     
    I then stitch them together to get the complete tune.
    This helps me catch my breath, but also allows a couple seconds to think about the next phrase.
     

    RJB -Vernon Corv 
     
    "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't."

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    #15
    bapu
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 10:47:39 (permalink)
    SBLS,
     
    It could be worse.
     
    You could be me.
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    Anderton
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 11:00:26 (permalink)
    rbecker
    I responded to a post a while back with a trick I use to combat fatigue, but will repeat it here because it might also help with the head game. I will often not record a tune in a linear manner. Here is how I may record "Row, Row, Row Boat" as the backing track is playing in the background:
     
    TAKE1:
    "Row, row, row your boat"
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily"
    <no singing>
    TAKE2:
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Gently down the stream"
    <no singing>
    "Life is but a dream"
     
    I then stitch them together to get the complete tune.
    This helps me catch my breath, but also allows a couple seconds to think about the next phrase.

     
    This is something I do as well, and I find it useful.
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #17
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 11:04:35 (permalink)
    Anderton
    rbecker
    I responded to a post a while back with a trick I use to combat fatigue, but will repeat it here because it might also help with the head game. I will often not record a tune in a linear manner. Here is how I may record "Row, Row, Row Boat" as the backing track is playing in the background:
     
    TAKE1:
    "Row, row, row your boat"
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily"
    <no singing>
    TAKE2:
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Gently down the stream"
    <no singing>
    "Life is but a dream"
     
    I then stitch them together to get the complete tune.
    This helps me catch my breath, but also allows a couple seconds to think about the next phrase.

     
    This is something I do as well, and I find it useful.
     


    Likewise.
     
    I build up harmonies and/or double tracks using a similar system.

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    #18
    joele552
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 11:08:45 (permalink)
    Hello All, I have multi-track recorded a practice session with our Behringer Xair18 with the software that came with it, Tracktion 5. Now I imported the tracks into sonar x3 and would like to use it to split the tracks into separate song files, keeping the tracks. Does anyone here know how to do that in Sonar, so that it does not make a copy of the full tracks for every song, it is a waste of disk space. I should have asked this question years ago when I first encountered it.
     
     
     
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    #19
    tlw
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 11:18:16 (permalink)
    rbecker
    The OP wrote:
    "Sheesh ... and this is more than likely in the wrong forum."
     
    This question does indeed belong on this forum...because the resolution resides within Sonar.
     
    My first "studio" was a VestaFire 4-track recorder. You may recall that 4-tracks like this used regular cassette audio tapes, and recorded each stereo track as a separate track, and on playback played both sides of the tape at the same time for the total of four track. Trouble was that you had only about two chances to get a track right, or the degradation of the media on that tape track ruined the whole tape.
     
    I can't get nervous any more about bad takes. Between the essentially unlimited number of takes Sonar allows, and the ease of comping, I think the whole thing is -well- a cakewalk.
     
    I do all my personal recording on a loop because I know I want multiple takes. I had a difficult 4-bar section last year that required THIRTY takes before I was happy! I kid you not.
     
    The trick is getting out of a "performance" or maybe more accurately "rehearsal" mentality when recording. My wife has this problem...She has a wonderful classical voice - Ten times better than mine - But she will stop singing during a session if she perceives a momentary problem, like a missed note or wrong word...then I yell "Keep singing!..Keep singing!".
     
    I responded to a post a while back with a trick I use to combat fatigue, but will repeat it here because it might also help with the head game. I will often not record a tune in a linear manner. Here is how I may record "Row, Row, Row Boat" as the backing track is playing in the background:
     
    TAKE1:
    "Row, row, row your boat"
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily"
    <no singing>
    TAKE2:
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Gently down the stream"
    <no singing>
    "Life is but a dream"
     
    I then stitch them together to get the complete tune.
    This helps me catch my breath, but also allows a couple seconds to think about the next phrase.
     


    The late Dusty Springfield, it has been claimed, would work on her vocal recordings one short phrase or even one syllable at a time, the final released track being composited, the old-fashioned way with a razor blade and adhesive tape, from multiple short clips. The engineers and producers of the 60's, 70's and 80's would have sold a fair proportion of their souls for the technology we have access to.

    Playing live and recording are two quite different things. Live you can get away with all kinds of sloppiness and even really bad ideas so long as you move on quickly because the atmosphere compensates. Recordings have to stand up to repeated listening.

    On the other hand, Bo Diddley's recording of "Before You Accuse Me", complete with off-key singing and "interesting" guiar break is regarded as a classic. A modern producer would probably have listened to it once and said "OK chaps, let's call it a day. Come back when you're awake and sober and we'll try that again."

    PS Not for nothing do they call me Mr Take 93 :-)

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    #20
    Anderton
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 12:27:24 (permalink)
    joele552
    Hello All, I have multi-track recorded a practice session with our Behringer Xair18 with the software that came with it, Tracktion 5. Now I imported the tracks into sonar x3 and would like to use it to split the tracks into separate song files, keeping the tracks. Does anyone here know how to do that in Sonar, so that it does not make a copy of the full tracks for every song, it is a waste of disk space. I should have asked this question years ago when I first encountered it.
     
     
     
    Sonar X3e
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    1 Plextor 128 SSD as StartUp
    2 Seagate 1 TB Drives
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    Event BAS 20/20 Old style



    There are several ways to do this, but I highly recommend starting a separate thread titled "How to Divide a Single Recording into Multiple Songs?" because people won't think of this thread as a place to answer your question. Also, consider adding the final form you want these songs to take - individual two track files? Separate tracks in the same project? What you you want to end up with will in large part determine how to go about what you want to do.
     
    If you post a new thread, I'll delete this post so any answers aren't split between the two threads.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #21
    tenfoot
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 14:42:31 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Anderton
    rbecker
    I responded to a post a while back with a trick I use to combat fatigue, but will repeat it here because it might also help with the head game. I will often not record a tune in a linear manner. Here is how I may record "Row, Row, Row Boat" as the backing track is playing in the background:
     
    TAKE1:
    "Row, row, row your boat"
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily"
    <no singing>
    TAKE2:
    <no singing, only backing track>
    "Gently down the stream"
    <no singing>
    "Life is but a dream"
     
    I then stitch them together to get the complete tune.
    This helps me catch my breath, but also allows a couple seconds to think about the next phrase.

     
    This is something I do as well, and I find it useful.
     


    Likewise.
     
    I build up harmonies and/or double tracks using a similar system.



    Well that's all well and good for you guys, but I just don't think that song is gonna' sell down here, harmonies or not! 

    Bruce.
     
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    #22
    rbecker
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 15:14:34 (permalink)
    tenfoot wrote:
    "Well that's all well and good for you guys, but I just don't think that song is gonna' sell down here, harmonies or not!" 
     
    My apologies...That was insensitive of me....Maybe my example should have been "Horse With No Name" 

    RJB -Vernon Corv 
     
    "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't."

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    #23
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 15:31:51 (permalink)
    Waltzing Matilda would be more appropriate

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    #24
    kennywtelejazz
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 17:19:04 (permalink)
    skinnybones lampshade
    How come, when I'm finally ready to record, do I make so many mistakes?

     
     
    When that happens too me it may mean that I need to practice more and be better prepared .
     
    The other thing is I may have very high expectations of my self that I may not be able too meet at that moment in time .
     
    skinnybones lampshade
     
    I mess up take after take, although I wrote the @#$% song myself, and you'd think I'd have a clue about how to play and/or sing it.
     
     

     
    Just because a person writes a song  , doesn't mean they may know how to interpret the songs emotional message during their first attempts at recording the song .. the song may just be way too new . 
     
    Also it is important to have the muscle memory and nerve synapse's firing on the all correct neurological path ways .
    A good example of this concept is learning a new dance step .It takes time to get the moves down .
    This is something we all need at one time or another to be able to have a level of consistency in expressing ourselves in our Music.
     
    To be able to interpret the songs emotional message with absolute freedom of expression , a song has to be lived with long enough for the artist to have an emotional history of performing and playing around with the song itself …
     
    skinnybones lampshade
     
    Then every confusing technical difficulty possible seems to leap into play (and record), causing every bit of inspiration to drain away while I try to figure out what's wrong now so that I can get on with it.
     

     
    Been there often enough too have learned the hard way too just give myself a break for not being
    "The  Genius I  Wish I Was " in all aspects of my Music Creation and Guitar Playing ….
     
    Working alone for long hours in front of a computer like many of us here on the forum do , does bring up it's own set of issues and complexities .
    After spending a lifetime learning how to play an instrument while having a high level / degree of freedom and self expression it may be asking a lot way too soon to be able too have Transparent Monster Production Chops On Tap .
     
    Sometimes Ya just got too give time time when it comes to learning The Craft of Recording .
    It is a craft and it can be learned 
     
    As far as The Muse goes , sure we all know The Muse is gonna throw you a whiff and a taste here and there of her Rapture …
    Be grateful The Muse baited your hook with the right bait just for you and tried to throw you a bone ….
     
    The Muse may simply want you to "want it real bad and work for it "…..
     
    skinnybones lampshade
     
    Next, I become a nasty old dog who barks at my poor cat who only wanted to help out by swatting my (computer) mouse dead as ... as a dormouse (and stepping on the computer power button in the process)!
     

     
     
    Smart Cat . Your adorable furry friend is trying to show you some Love.
     
    My dog does the same type of thing when I'm getting frustrated .lol
     
    skinnybones lampshade
     
    Finally, I write my tale of woe to the forum instead of sucking it up and getting on with the song like any worthwhile person would do.
     
    Sheesh ... and this is more than likely in the wrong forum.
     
    This is my tale of woe. Now I have nowhere to go.
     

     
    Your tale of woe was a pretty good read . 
     
    If we held a show of hands here on the forum with the condition that all the folks that have felt that way one time or another  raised their hands , I'm sure somebody here could make a fortune selling underarm deodorant 
     
    All frustrations aside , it is nice to have a safe place to let it out ..
     
    skinnybones lampshade
     
    Except .... Maybe back to try again ... But the General Question remains, Why DO I make so many mistakes when I have done everything I can to be prepared to record? 
     

    Yeah , Go back and try again ….
    Don't worry about the inspiration ..Phone the performance in if you have too ..
    That will give you the opportunity too be able to listen to "the placeholder performance " from a detached emotional state of being …
     
    I've had it happen where I was pushing to make one thing happen and it just wasn't happening no matter how much I wished it would be musically happening ..
     
    An elemental attribute of creative expression is destruction , 
    To illustrate that concept ,   
    I have found it too be very satisfying and quite liberating to make a bold stroke of the sword by eliminating  anything in my musical creative endeavors that will cause me emotional distress … 
    In plain simple English ,
    If the musical part sucks …the part goes …something better musically will come along ..it always does …
     
    all the best ,
     
    Kenny
     
    post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/04/22 18:17:09

                       
    Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
    The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
    I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
    The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
     
    https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
     
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
     
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



    #25
    skinnybones lampshade
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 21:50:09 (permalink)
    Thank you, Kenny.
     
    Your posts are always very thoughtful and I always end up learning something from them that I didn't even realize I was missing. Great tips and insights. :)
     
    LJ 
    #26
    Anderton
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/22 23:59:08 (permalink)
    Kenny's post triggered another thought...
     
    I have a wall between "writing" and "recording." I write most of my songs in the studio, but they're drafts, and they usually aren't very good. But that's okay, they're not supposed to be...I'm writing the song, not recording it.
     
    Once the song is written, sometimes I'll start over from scratch. Sometimes there are some cool moments in there that are worth keeping, so I replace the scratch tracks. But the important point is that in the process of writing the song, I end up practicing it a lot. By the time I want to record it, I know the words, I know the chords, I know where the song wants to go.
     
    In a way, this is like the old days where we'd play songs on tour night after night, six nights a week for six weeks. When we went into the studio, not only could we play without having to think too much, we also knew which songs caused people to clap and which caused them to go to the bathroom... Good for the song selection process!
     
    I think people are too concerned with getting things right when they go into the studio. Two nights ago I was playing a chord progression I really liked, and came up with a melody line I also liked...but had no words. Nothing. Zero level of word inspiration. So I wrote these really bad words (not intentionally, they just sucked) although they gave a reason for the melody line to exist. 
     
    I ended up playing the song over and over and over again as I experimented with other parts, like bass and guitar. Meanwhile, the melody line was being etched into my brain, and next day it was still running around in my brain because I hadn't listened to anything else to replace it. And then out of nowhere, I had an idea for a title, and that created more words, and that turned into a story, and now the words that sucked have been replaced by words I like for the first verse and part of the chorus...I'm sure the rest will come along soon.
     
    [Another interesting point: When writing I'll often take the easy way out and use Melodyne to create a harmony. Many times it's not something I can sing because it's out of range. However after hearing it a lot, 9 times out of 10 when I go to actually record the song, somehow I'm able to sing the harmony part. I'm still trying to figure out how that works.
     
    In a similar vein, years ago I never was able to do vibrato so I started adding it electronically. But when I sang along with the parts that had vibrato, my voice started following along and started mimicking the vibrato! Somehow that taught my voice how to have vibrato, and after that I didn't need the electronic vibrato any more.]
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #27
    Kev999
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    Re: General Question 2016/04/23 00:27:40 (permalink)
    When playing and recording guitar, bass or anything else, I always find that I can either play with accurate timing or clearly defined notes & phrases, but not both. When I'm in rhythmic mode a lot of notes get fluffed. When I play clearly and precisely the timing drifts off.

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    #28
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