AnsweredIs there any truth.......

Author
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
2016/05/03 16:25:29 (permalink)

Is there any truth.......

.....to the theory that 432 Hz is the natural "musical pitch" and gives more clarity than the standard 440 Hz?
 

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#1
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 16:39:00 (permalink)
None whatsoever.

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#2
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 86000
  • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 16:44:24 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Mesh 2016/05/04 08:39:37
Mesh
.....to the theory that 432 Hz is the fundamental or harmonic of the Am bazz note?
 


YezzIzay.
#3
drewfx1
Max Output Level: -9.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 6585
  • Joined: 2008/08/04 16:19:11
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 17:08:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/05/04 08:39:21
Mesh
.....to the theory that 432 Hz is the natural "musical pitch" and gives more clarity than the standard 440 Hz?
 




My theory is that some people's brains don't have the throughput to function properly above a certain pitch.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#4
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 17:22:53 (permalink)

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#5
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8124
  • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
  • Location: Missouri - USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 17:38:59 (permalink)
Yes, it's true.  Unfortunately only a very rare species of Lemur can tell the difference in the key of Am

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#6
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/03 18:03:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/05/04 08:41:15
As a guitar player, I can tell you that I used to spend a lot of time re-tuning to learn songs off records. Sometimes the tuning changed from song to song on the same album - which is why I never got used to using a tuner.
 
Unless brass or keys were involved, the tuning on many rock albums used to be anything but standard 440. And of course, some musicians voluntarily strayed from 440 for entire records (Black Sabbath Volume 4 comes to mind). Stevie Ray Vaughan and many other guitarists favoured tuning down a half step too.
 
As such, I personally never paid much attention to tuning up to standard until recent years. In fact, I've be re-working an old song for which my guitar was tuned extremely low (2 tones down IIRC). That particular song has piano in it, but it makes no differences so long as you are spot on on whichever note you decide to tune to.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#7
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3765
  • Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 08:36:01 (permalink)
Rain
Stevie Ray Vaughan and many other guitarists favoured tuning down a half step too.
 
...



There was a story I read about one song by SRV and it was about a song they were ready to play, but the bass player was half a key off ... no problem ... we got us a new song!
 
Always thought that was pretty cool. You adjust to the sound of it, and it is playable regardless. I always think that is more what music is about than anything else ... you learn to listen and play to what you hear, which, of course, is a part of the history of rock music, except the ones that are afraid to improvise and learn something new! Sad to see a lot of those times gone, but they will come back ... mark my worms on that one!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#8
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 08:49:00 (permalink)
+1 Rain.......I also (solely) manually tuned when learning off records/tapes. I also never had any kind of tuner(s) other than my ears (just guitar, amp, and stomp boxes). VH being my favorite band, I never understood why they almost always tuned down a 1/2 step (I just brushed it off as that's DLR's comfort zone)......now it makes a bit more sense.
 
Even though I use a digital tuner now, I have to always confirm it with my trusty ears......something about that E chord with distortion on it that just hits the right spot.
 
 
Wouldn't be surprised if all these 432 Hz fanboys are constantly singing: What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 
 
 

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#9
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3765
  • Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 08:59:32 (permalink)
Hi,
 
It's just weird and strange ... we're into the technology of it all, and in the end, we think that the technology has to be right and not the ear, and its comfort level in playing something. If it feels better tuned differently, who gives a dam about the technology, and this is where music is going wrong today ... there is no "feel" ... it all has to be "perfect" ... and we need to break that up some more, and stop listening to the DAW's and whatever technology that supposedly makes this or that ... perfect ... that is just crap.
 
Perfection is in the ear, not in the DAW or the notes and staff itself, unless you still believe Mozart and Beethoven are GOD and the rest is crap! 

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#10
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 09:07:12 (permalink)
Moshkito
Hi,
 
 
Perfection is in the ear,


.....and if your hearing is impaired??

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#11
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 09:21:31 (permalink)
There are far more important debates in music, let's face it. 
 


James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#12
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 10:06:01 (permalink)
Tuning?  Who needs that?  I play RAWK!!! 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#13
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2567
  • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
  • Location: West Midlands, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 11:48:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/05/04 11:53:03
Is there a difference between A=432 and A=440? Most definitely. A difference of 8Hz at that particular A. A noticeable emotional or other difference in the music as far as a listener or musician is concerned? I doubt it, and if there is then anyone so afflicted should probably stay away from strings, guitars, brass, most woodwind, analogue synths etc. because those instruments rarely produce exactly the same pitch for any given note twice in a row. Fretted string instruments are impossible to intonate so that every note is exact, and fretless are at the mercy of tiny shifts in finger placement and pick/bow use by the player.

Once upon a time A=454 was common. The last users of A=454 were the Salvation Army brass and concertina bands, who gradually abandoned it when brass instrument manufacturers decided to cease making A=454 instruments around the end of the 19th century. So modern brass and military bands who play music from before c.1900 are playing slightly flat compared to their predecessors

Does it matter? Not much.

One reason for guitarists tuning down that doesn't seem to get mentioned much has nothing to do with A=anything. It's because some keys and chord shapes on the guitar allow a guitarist to play stuff they can't so easily in other keys, or even play at all. The same reason for using capos really. So if the riff works best played using the first position E chord fingering for example, but the singer can't comfortably get the high notes in E but can in D tuning the guitar and bass down a tone solves the problem.

It also makes heavier strings much easier to vibrato and bend and vibrato (or tremolo as Leo Fender misnamed it) bridge setups like the Bigsby and Strat systems easier to set up and operate.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
#14
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4665
  • Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 15:11:26 (permalink)
*I'm lying* < Epimenides> Attention bisexual men!
#15
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 15:36:06 (permalink)


Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#16
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/04 16:16:19 (permalink)
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet."
 
~ Johann Sebastian Bach, 1749

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#17
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3765
  • Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/05 08:27:07 (permalink)
Mesh
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Perfection is in the ear,


.....and if your hearing is impaired??




Tell Beethoven that!
 
Again, you are judging YOUR music by your mind ... not your feeling ... is my way of saying it. (words might not be right for you, sorry!)

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#18
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3765
  • Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/05 08:28:23 (permalink)
sharke
There are far more important debates in music, let's face it. 
 





Ohhhh my word ... one of my favorite cartoons ... after "One Froggy Evening" of course ... which is so much about our hopes and desires in music, it's not funny!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#19
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 27360
  • Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
  • Location: Online right here!
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/05 09:21:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2016/05/05 13:04:20
Moshkito
Mesh
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Perfection is in the ear,


.....and if your hearing is impaired??




Tell Beethoven that!
 
Again, you are judging YOUR music by your mind ... not your feeling ... is my way of saying it. (words might not be right for you, sorry!)


Well, Beethoven is dead and he was a musical genius......obviously, the lack of hearing didn't affect him. The question I asked was for those of us that are still alive.
 
Actually, I'm not judging anything (BTW, thanks for that analytical evaluation on my mind/feelings........feels good to be finally liberated!!), but rather only wanted some clarification on your statement: "Perfection is in the ear".
 
The question is quite simple.......how does one achieve "Perfection" in the ear when they have impaired hearing?
 
(Would really appreciate you sharing your personal memoirs on how you achieved this perfection and possibly might also help others get to that height?)  

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#20
soens
Max Output Level: -23.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5154
  • Joined: 2005/09/16 03:19:55
  • Location: Location: Location
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/05 09:37:29 (permalink)
Mesh
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Perfection is in the ear,


.....and if your hearing is impaired??



My hearing has always been in pairs... tho I'm starting to loose one side.
#21
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3765
  • Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Is there any truth....... 2016/05/06 06:13:47 (permalink)
Mesh
 
... 
(Would really appreciate you sharing your personal memoirs on how you achieved this perfection and possibly might also help others get to that height?)  
...



IF, perception is based on each individual and their abilities, being able to achieve it is a personal experience, then perfection is not something that any of us will EVER agree on!
 
I had a couple of friends that were blind ... and their biggest laugh and jokes? How blind we were! His one thing that was insane? He used to get on 101, and hitchhike to Moby Disk in Van Nuys (from Santa Barbara) and go get the new Tangerine Dream, or Klaus Schulze album!
 
In essence, I have always thought that one likely tends to enhance the other 4 senses, and it helps detail something that we can not fathom, since it is so different and experiential. I'm not exactly of the opinion that it is a matter of taste, since there is something in music that can be heard and found in all places on this earth, not just our western ears, thus, I find the search for "perfection" an idea that is impossible to meet and arrive at.
 
Somethings are perfect for a specific moment in time. And it will be different in another moment in time, and trying to repeat and re-live it, is one of the biggest frustrations there is, specially with commercial music ... you can't live your song again ... you have to "re-live" that moment in a studio ... and that is next to impossible every night! You have changed since then!
 
You are a person, like I am and others are! That, in itself is, the only perfection there is!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#22
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1