guyshomenet
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Audio engine dropouts on new system
This is beyond frustrating Recently found the time an money to upgrade the studio computer (was a Core Duo, DDM2 laptop, now an i5, DDM3). On the old machine, no audio engine dropouts, though it was getting impossible to mix down a recording. I'll note the new machine is a virgin Win7 box, a clean install of Sonar X2 and all other recording software. All updates were made (OS and recording tools). Latest ASIO drivers for the Lexicon Omega. On the new machine, I cannot playback 20 seconds without the %@&^@ audio engine dying. I walked down the long laundry list of possible problems found at http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=AudioPerformance.23.html#1123645. No success. I also see no common problem source. Sometimes the disc load icon goes red, and sometimes it doesn't. 1) How can one isolate the actual cause of the audio engine dropout? 2) Aside from the list of potential causes on the aforementioned web page, what else might be causing a relatively robust machine to choke on a 10 track mix playback?
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microapp
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/14 20:35:09
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Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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microapp
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/14 20:39:39
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☄ Helpfulby guyshomenet 2016/05/15 18:16:53
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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vladasyn
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/14 20:50:06
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You saying you worked through the list. Did you change any settings? Latency? Did you set your sound card as master for clock- for recording and playback? Did you disable your onboard sound card? (In system- set your Lexicon as default). What about the Antivirus? Check all the cables?
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guyshomenet
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/15 18:19:40
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Microapp, many thanks. Quite an interesting tool. And vladasyn, yes I made changes and backed them out, testing everything that could. So, things are better though LatencyMon still reports a borderline situation. Being an ex-mini mainframe fellow, I only dive into Windows innards when necessary, so I have a bit of a learning curve. Thanks to for the page to interpret LatencyMon, though I did not locate a concise description ... I'll have to dig through the thread some more. The embarrasing admission is that I had notice noticed the "See Other" section of the Windows performance screen in Control Panel, where Microsoft had hidden the "Maximum Performance" option (why is it whenever MSFT tries to be slick, they make things for obtuse and difficult?). So, switching that over at least stopped massive dropouts. LatencyMon reports the max latency was 21204 ms from USBPORT.SYS. This makes sense give the Lexicon Omega is the audio device in use. But in the driver page, USBPORT has a "highest execution time" of 0.33 ms, so I don't understand the main/driver divergence. The other red-zone element is the hard pagefault resolution time (14239 ms), and that was in an SVCHOST instance. I may play with buffers again now that the dropouts are somewhat tamed. One problem I may have is finding the documentation for tuning the BIOS (AMI ver 0502) which I have yet to locate on the net -- anyone know where to grab the docs? Lots of options in the BIOS, few of which are above my paygrade. Some other stats: MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 21204.283224 Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 6.084515 (assume not terrible?) Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 208.958061 Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.937431 (assume not terrible?) DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 1437037 DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 12 DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0 DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0 DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
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tlw
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/15 19:24:51
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If you're running wifi networking, if you've not already tried it, go into Windows Control Panel/Device Manager.
Find the wifi adaptor in the list, right click on it and disable it (not uninstall, just disable).
Then try running the latency monitor again and see if things have improved. It's not always the case, but a primary cause of high PCI bus latency problems is wifi adaptor drivers that hog resources for too long. Omce the time they've hogged exceeds the ASIO audio buffer you get popping and droputs in the audio. It's not uncommon to have to disable the wifi adaptor while working in the DAW then enable it again if you need it omce you've finished.
Wired ethernet hardly ever seems to cause any problems, so if wifi is causing younproblems and you want continual networking, ethernet is probably the way to go.
After that, if problems persist I'd suggest looking at Windows power settings as the next step. Set everything to 100% and disable USB port suspension by Windows, otherwise things attached by USB tend to get put to sleep. USB power suspend also needs doing in Device Manager by right-clicking the USB ports as well - the power settings don't over-ride device manager for some reason lnown only to MS.
After that, disabling cpu core parking and, if necessary, tweaking BIOS cpu power and sleep settings are often worth investigating.
PCs are put together and by default configured for the "avaerage user". The average user, even game players, doesn't notice if the PC takes 10 or 15 milliseconds to fire up a cpu core or speed one up, or if there's a 20ms wait while something in the background has 100% of Window's attention. DAW users after as close as possible to real-time audio don't make average demands on the PC, for us it matters.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Jesse G
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/15 20:11:17
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What are the full specs of your Daw? This should be in your signature so we all can see it without asking you each time you may need assistance. See other peoples signature to get an idea.
post edited by Jesse G - 2016/05/15 21:27:52
Peace,Jesse G. A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together! Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
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microapp
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/15 21:05:52
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Unfortunately all motherboards do not interact with Win power settings the same way. If your bios has some CPU clock mgmt option, disable it. Used to be called Intel Speed Step. On my ASUS mb, I leave turbo mode enabled and in Win, set min processor to 100%. On this mb anyway, that leaves the CPU clock static and at the turbo speed. This scheme has worked on a couple of Intel mb's and my current ASUS mb. +1 to tlb's suggestions especially re: WIFI. Also at least until you ID the issue, disconnect any unnecessary USB devices. Some PC's will benefit from disabling internal onboard audio devices . Some video cards have HDM! audio devices and I would disable those as well. At least for troubleshooting. If you have disk issues, go into devices manager and make certain your disk is using DMA mode. https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Enabling_DMA_Mode_Transfers Are you sure all cores are enabled. Some bios have a single core setting. Do you see activity in Sonar Performance Monitor for more than the first core ? Not sure you will find bios specific details above what is in your mb manual. What is you mb exactly ?
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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guyshomenet
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/15 21:16:16
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TLW, thanks. No wi-fi, no parked CPUs, all power settings at 100%. Jesse G, thanks for the protocol suggestion. I'll see if I can assemble enough data. ============ Sonar X2 producer, Windows 7 64-bit, i5 650 @ 3.2GHz, 8GB DDR3 @ 1333MHz, Intel HD Graphics, Lexicon Omega using ASIO driver, M-Audio Trigger Finger
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dcumpian
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/16 08:36:14
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This is a pretty common problem. It is easy to think that a new powerful system will solve all of your problems, but it is rare that all of the parts and pieces work together to make a trouble-free DAW. This is one of the many reasons why custom DAW builders still exist. For what it is worth, try to keep the Lexicon on its very own USB bus and not shared with your mouse and keyboard, or any other USB device. You'll have to do some research to discover which USB ports connect to which bus internally. Also, if the Lexicon is a USB2 device, make sure it is only plugged into a USB2 port. Most new motherboards offer USB3 ports and many USB2 audio interfaces have trouble with them. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/16 09:04:54
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have you tried going in to sonars preferences and selecting your asio driver, click on the settings to open up your audio interface asio settings. try playing with the buffer size. you may be to low for sonar to handle. hense the drop outs.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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djtrailmixxx
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/16 11:21:33
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Look for an option in the BIOS called HPET and disable it. Also, disable the onboard audio. My last dell laptop (Studio XPS 1640) did not like having both onboard audio and FW interface running. Shared too many resources. I also disable card readers when present. Look for a BIOS update on the manufacturer's website as well.
Sonar Platinum X64 - Win 10 x64 - Intel SB-E 3930 - Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 - 16GB DDR3 - AMD R290X - 4x 1TB SSD RAID 0 (Sys and Data partitions) - 2x UAD2 Quad - 1x UAD2 Octo - UAD Apollo Dual
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brundlefly
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/16 13:05:24
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guyshomenet I also see no common problem source. Sometimes the disc load icon goes red, and sometimes it doesn't.
Sounds like you may be having a disk-streaming issue as opposed to CPU load or DPC spikes. Check disk usage in Windows Resource Monitor during playback; if it's running high, try increasing your disk output (playback) buffer in Preferences. If disk usage is high, and there aren't a lot of audio tracks in the project you may need to check disk performance independent of SONAR or look for other causes like concurrent virus-scanning.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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guyshomenet
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/05/16 21:57:24
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Many thanks to everyone. Still working the problem (time is scarce this week) but here are some data points: USB: Will try to move to the front-side buss, but right now it is the only live device on the back side apart from the Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse dongle. SOUND DISABLE: Already tried disabling the monitor and MB-based sound. No change, though I may do this again. ASIO BUFFERS: Currently playing with these. Might be helping a bit. BIOS: There are a lot of options in BIOS which I don't have the documentation for. I did disable CIE, as per another thread. Can't tell if that had any effect at all. I do not see an HPET option. Still hunting for BIOS documentation (neither ASUS or AMI have responded to requests for docs).
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guyshomenet
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Re: Audio engine dropouts on new system
2016/06/03 21:36:34
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We can close this one out. Unsure what magic combinations of tweaks I did made the difference, but I appear to have tamed the beast.
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