Helpful Reply[Update] Using a reference track?

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Jeffiphone
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2016/05/16 13:00:01 (permalink)

[Update] Using a reference track?

I'd like to import a commercially produced track from a CD into Sonar to use a reference for my mix, as I'm sure many already do.
 
Anyone have any tips for doing so? Like.... specifics on what to listen for? What to look for/compare on the ProChannel EQ's? What adjustments to make based on observations? Etc, etc. etc.
 
Thanks all.
 
~Jeff
 
 
post edited by Jeffiphone - 2016/05/17 11:31:17

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Using a reference track? 2016/05/16 13:22:34 (permalink)
I would say simply: Listen and compare.
...and compare the frequency curves with an analyser.
The main thing in using reference tracks, IMO, is to learn to know your 
monitors and studio.

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patm300e
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Re: Using a reference track? 2016/05/16 14:19:10 (permalink)
I do RIP the CD into WAV files:
http://portables.about.com/od/newsandviews/ss/how-to-rip-with-WMP.htm#step2
Then import into Sonar as a stereo reference track.  I can mute/unmute as necessary.
The biggest thing is to listen for major differences.  Are your highs as clean and crisp as the reference files?
You probably don't have the preamps and processors the pros have because they are typically very expensive!  Try keeping the signal path as clean and simple as possible. 
 
The best advise I can give is take time to get the best possible sound without any processing.  Then use minimal processing to enhance that sound.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by patm300e - 2016/05/16 14:40:31

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Beepster
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Re: Using a reference track? 2016/05/16 14:42:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/05/17 11:33:44
Ripping reference material is great for getting an overall idea of specific sounds and whatnot BUT remember that if you are using a commercial release it has already been Mastered. This can be misleading when trying to mix around it so keep that in mind.
 
Also there are a couple things I do to make sure any reference tracks aren't getting messed up or throwing me off too much.
 
One is that I send the track directly to the Master bus and keep NOTHING but a protection limiter on the master (no effects, totally dry aside from a limiter that in theory should not be doing ANYTHING unless a accidently crank something WAY up). I use a "Premaster" bus for any master effects. All my tracks and submix busses go through that BEFORE going to the Master.
 
By doing that I make sure my reference track is unadulterated. I also use that same track to import any Mixdowns I create so I can compare them to any new mixes I come up with (again to avoid any effects or volume stuff).
 
The other thing is as you mix you are generally going to want to leave headroom for any mastering that will follow your mix (generally around -6 to -3db). Your commercially mastered reference material is likely going to be as loud as possible so clocking in at just below 0db.
 
Since we know that extra volume creates the perception/illusion of something sounding "better" then we need our reference material's volume to match the material we are mixing.
 
So look at your meters and/or listen to the pure ref material against your own mix (a/b it while listening/watching main output meters) and make sure the volumes match. To do that you can just turn down the level fader on the track the reference material is on.
 
Hopefully that makes sense and helps.
 
/not a pro
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Cactus Music
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Re: Using a reference track? 2016/05/16 15:45:52 (permalink)
I will often use one of my own recordings as a reference track. I have a few that were my best works. They just sort of happen from time to time and I will always return to those to remind me of what I can do and with as little buggering around as possible. In my case there's not a lot of reason to listen to commercial recordings because that's not exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm more interested in having my own sound.
It really depends on what style your working on. I used to love using Silverchair as a benchmark back when I was working with a lot of the 90's stuff. That got me going on hard panned meaty guitar parts.
+1 to what Pat said in his last sentence. If you can capture a great performance in it purest form your heading for success.  My best recordings were because the performance was excellent and recorded just right.
Certainly there are types of music where this may not apply but in general I'm talking about recording musician's and singers, even if your the only one.
 
Also +1 to using reference material to learn your monitors.
 
I don't play the reference inside Sonar anyways.
When I'm at that point, I have already mixed the song and mastered it. So I'll play it side by side with a few reference songs in a player. For me it's part of the mastering process. It usually results in going back for a re mix. But that is all so easy to do now with the mix recall. My mastering is pretty basic as I usually have the song 99% coming out of Sonar. Mastering for me is more a top and tail and checking RMS levels. It all becomes easier as time goes by.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/05/16 16:07:24

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Jeffiphone
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Re: [Update for newbies] Using a reference track? 2016/05/17 11:13:18 (permalink)
Update: Last night I used a reference track for the first time. Used a song from one of my favorite bands, similar sound/style to what I'm composing. Ran the track dry to the master buss. Results?.........Holy crap!
 
For all newbies out there, this was an eye (and ear) opening experience to say the least. The main thing I noticed.....wait for it...............low end! Shocker, huh? I guess I was so afraid of mud, that I've almost mixed all the low end out of my song. Noticed a major difference in the "beefy-ness" of electric guitars, and the low end growl of bass guitar below 100Hz. And of course, everything seemed much more "glued" together than my mix. On the good side, my master bus EQ curve was very similar to the commercial tune. So, seeing that, I think my biggest challenge now is processing and mixing my bass guitar tracks. It was very cool sweeping the EQ with a narrow Q all around the low end of the spectrum to hear the different characteristics. Very enlightening.
 
The reference track also gave me a greater understanding of my monitors and headphones which is invaluable! I understand that this was a professionally mastered song and all that, so I didn't get too bummed out. I think the low end is the main thing that us newbies struggle with the most. Processing bass guitar is proving to be the most difficult thing for me so far.
 
So, thanks for all the tips everyone. As noted, this was a very eye opening experience, and I strongly recommend all newbies doing this.
 
~Jeff

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scook
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Re: [Update for newbies] Using a reference track? 2016/05/17 11:15:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/05/17 11:34:26
There are quite a few discussions of this type in the http://forum.cakewalk.com/Techniques-f90.aspx below.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: [Update for newbies] Using a reference track? 2016/05/17 17:25:41 (permalink)
You don't have to be a newbe either.  Even after producing and mastering many many CD's for various artists I still do it.  It is also excellent in a mastering situation.  Any artist I work with will have some fave CD's they love the sound of and are listening to and I usually ask for a lend of those.  It can save a bucket of time and it keeps you from going down the wrong path too.
 
I don't bring the ref tracks into my DAW though.  I prefer to feed the CD player into a totally separate monitoring input on my mixer and switch over that way instead.  I simply adjust the rms (VU) level of the ref track to match the current rms (VU) mix level I am working on.  It is important to match levels well though.  Even though the ref track may be mastered, once the levels are matched to your mix it still serves its purpose very well.
 
And yes ref tracks also teach you how your monitors really sound.  I use the last two Steely Dan CD's (that were all digital) to check many things like monitors and setting up live PA's too.  But it is good to get ref tracks that are right in the ball park genre wise with your current mix.

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