Send muting

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mse21tx
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2016/05/23 21:14:27 (permalink)

Send muting

Quick question.  Say you have a send from an audio track to a delay bus, and want to mute the send just in one section of the song.   In many other DAWs, to automate this you can simply press the "send mute" button for that particular section, then unmute the send.  I don't see a way to do this in Sonar.  In fact I see that the documentation omits send mutes from those items which are automatable.  Sure you can manually automate the send level to turn it all the way off, but it seems odd that you can't simply mute the send entirely.  Or am I missing something?  
Thanks for your help.  I really like Sonar but there are a few things that seem to be missing that are standard features in most other programs.

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    pdlstl2
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 00:00:48 (permalink)
    I'd like to know as well.
    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 05:17:07 (permalink)
    Manually automating the send level to turn it all the way off is exactly the same as doing a send mute, so this will work.
     
    Another alternative is to automate the level of the delay bus itself down to zero (this might not be what you want if other tracks with a delay send need to be heard)
     
    There is an on/off button for every send. Not sure if these are automatable and I'm not at my DAW to check.
    Just right slick it and if it exposes the Automation Write field then you're good to use this

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    mse21tx
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 08:13:55 (permalink)
    Unfortunately bus send enable is not automatable.  So looks like I'm stuck with manually automating send levels.  Much more convenient, however, to just click a mute button on or off.
     
    Thanks for the reply. 

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    Beepster
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 10:58:11 (permalink)
    In case you were unaware you can make such automation very quickly by doing the following...
     
    Put the desired envelope in focus (in this case the Send level), "Range Select" the time range you want the "mute" to occur (Left Click and drag in the bottom half of the automation lane to range select) then hover your cursor in the top 1/8th of the automation lane (the cursor will change to an up/down arrow thingie). Left Click and drag downward all the way. This will automatically create the nodes necessary to create an On/Off type automation action.
     
    Just in case you were manually creating nodes or trying to use Write Automation or Snapshot automation or any other more complex/time consuming method.
     
    Cheers.
    #5
    brundlefly
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 10:59:16 (permalink)
    If you really want to be able to automate the send with a button, you can route it through an Aux track to the bus, and automate the Aux track's Mute or Input Echo. It's trading 'clutter' for convenience, but I thought I'd mention it.
     
    As for whether this is a 'standard' feature, I did a quick search, and immediately found forum posts indicating this isn't possible in Logic Pro or Harrison Mixbus, either, so SONAR's not alone, though it might be in the minority. I also failed to find a request for it in the Feature Request forum and only a handful of other posts about it over many years, so apparently it's not missed that often.
     
    Every DAW has it's own set of unique or unusually-implemented features and ways of doing things; you get used to the features you have, and generally don't miss the ones that aren't available. When you run into that one missing feature that seems like a gross omission, you have to keep it in context. Every time I've tried another DAW, not an hour went by before I was banging my head against a virtual wall, trying to do something that's a cinch in SONAR.

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    #6
    Beepster
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 11:08:49 (permalink)
    I would add that I'd like to see a "Send Mute" button added and actually other advanced controls. Maybe in some kind of "flyout" so as not to clutter up the basic Send modules too much. It'd also be nice to be able to have control over EXACTLY where in the chain the Send "tap" occurs. Like even in between FX Racks or Prochannel modules. Maybe even a "Sends" FX Rack that only applies to the Send signal before it ends up going out to it's next destination.
     
    Not sure if Patch Points or Aux tracks can emulate that type of functionality. I've only just started concocting evil schemes with them. lol
    #7
    mse21tx
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 12:35:45 (permalink)
    All good comments.  Thanks so much for the responses.

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    #8
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 12:39:00 (permalink)
    Beepster
    I would add that I'd like to see a "Send Mute" button added and actually other advanced controls. Maybe in some kind of "flyout" so as not to clutter up the basic Send modules too much. It'd also be nice to be able to have control over EXACTLY where in the chain the Send "tap" occurs. Like even in between FX Racks or Prochannel modules. Maybe even a "Sends" FX Rack that only applies to the Send signal before it ends up going out to it's next destination.
     
    Not sure if Patch Points or Aux tracks can emulate that type of functionality. I've only just started concocting evil schemes with them. lol


    I was just thinking that patch points should be able to do this. I haven't used them yet though...
    EDIT:
    Well it isn't EXACTLY the same but you can accomplish it. You can't "insert" patch points like you can a VST effect, but you can set the output and input tracks as patch points. That means for instance if you want a post EQ, pre flanger send you would set up a track with the EQ and one with a flanger. You'd simply send the output of the EQd track to the input of the track with the flanger using patch points. Creating a send on the EQd track is then automatically pre flanger. It's a little convoluted but it works. I'd also like the option of inserting sends anywhere, though to be completely honest I can't say I've missed it much the past few years.
    post edited by Sanderxpander - 2016/05/24 13:09:40
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    Beepster
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 13:25:58 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
     
    I was just thinking that patch points should be able to do this. I haven't used them yet though...
    EDIT:
    Well it isn't EXACTLY the same but you can accomplish it. You can't "insert" patch points like you can a VST effect, but you can set the output and input tracks as patch points. That means for instance if you want a post EQ, pre flanger send you would set up a track with the EQ and one with a flanger. You'd simply send the output of the EQd track to the input of the track with the flanger using patch points. Creating a send on the EQd track is then automatically pre flanger. It's a little convoluted but it works. I'd also like the option of inserting sends anywhere, though to be completely honest I can't say I've missed it much the past few years.




    Aux Tracks/Patch Points were something I didn't get too excited about when they were announced because it seemed like most of the stuff they were being marketed as doing I could already do in other ways (and I've always actually really liked the Sonar Bus method over the way other DAWs roll like PT).
     
    However since their introduction they've not necessarily allowed me to things I COULDN'T do before but made those tasks a little more streamlined. The more I contemplate how they can be twisted in bizzarro ways though I've been able come up with some pretty interesting/useful ideas. Of course people who use other DAWs have probably figured out anything I've come up with but just the paradigm shift from the "all bus" methods has opened some procedural doors for me.
     
    I did an experiment recently on a track for Baps where I used Aux Tracks to use two different guitar sims for parallel processing. Essentially I had my dry DI track feeding two aux tracks that each had a different sim on them (TH2 on one aux and GR5 on the other). Normally to do this in the track pane would require cloning the track with the audio data in it (messy/annoying/uses up extra resources because of extra clips) or using busses (taking your track effects all the way ver into the bus pane and adding a ton of extra busses with complex routing when I'd rather keep it to group/submix busses).
     
    Once the sims are set and the tracks blended they get sent to a submix Aux track and everything else can be hidden in Track Manager and that submix Aux track becomes the main track/fader/output to bus/etc and I get many more options for shaping the tones.
     
    Tone chaser's wet dream.
     
    /blathering
    #10
    bluzdog
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    Re: Send muting 2016/05/24 14:04:17 (permalink)
    Beepster
    I would add that I'd like to see a "Send Mute" button added and actually other advanced controls. Maybe in some kind of "flyout" so as not to clutter up the basic Send modules too much.



    Awesome idea!!! RME does this on the channel strips of TotalMix. This would make a great feature request Beeps. 
     
    Rocky
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