Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems

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rcalligan
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2016/05/27 16:51:39 (permalink)

Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems

I have a number of virtual piano sounds, but I find them all to be a bit lacking on the bottom end, except EWQL Pianos.  However I find that to be a bit lacking on the clear and crisp end.  So I found 2 pianos that sound fabulous together, but because one opens in Play (EWQL) and the other in Kontakt (Spitfire Audio piano).  So I put them on separate tracks and armed them both to record simultaneously.  I recorded a track and the whole thing sounded fabulous, but to no surprise when I went to Quantize and fix some notes, I ran into problems.  So I deleted the performance (midi notes) in the Spitfire audio track, and when all the repairs were complete on the other track, I copied the updated performance from the EWQL track to the Spitfire track.  Becasue these were identical tracks my next challenge was to align them perfectly, so  I even magnified the track view as close as it would go, and they matched precisely.  However in doing so, the sustain peddle on the EWQL piano track that I had copied, suddenly stopped working.  It sounded like stubby little notes, whereas the Spitfire piano sounded fine.  I re drew the sustain peddle on the EWQL track thinking that might help, even though it was visually there, there was no sustain.  However when I re drew it that matters even worse, notes started getting out of time and jumbled up, even though I wasn't even touching the midi notes.  The whole thing turned into a disaster.  
 
Is there another way of doing this that actually works?
R
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 19:13:27 (permalink)
    That sound more like a buggy midi editing problem. I've often have midi events go wacky for no reasons and thank goodness for undo!!

    Johnny V  
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    #2
    rcalligan
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 20:58:59 (permalink)
    I hate to say it but after loving this program for so long I am ready to throw in the towel again.  Every week its a new bug...  I spent the entire afternoon redoing the piano part and froze it, and it did the same thing.  Doing anything in effect deletes the sustain pedal.  It still shows on the piano roll view and looks just like it did before I froze it, but audibly it is not functioning at all.  So you get these ridiculous little staccato notes instead of the lush sustain that existing prior to freezing it.  Ugh ... if anyone has any idea I'll certainly be obliged...    
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    Base 57
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 21:22:27 (permalink)
       Instead of making a copy of the midi track. Send the output of the corrected midi track to the first plug and record it. Then change the output of the midi track to the second plug and record that. They should be in perfect sync.
       Should be...
       Hope it works out. I also love to blend two piano sounds.
    #4
    rcalligan
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 21:32:24 (permalink)
    I used to think I was a fairly intelligent guy but I have no idea how to do what you are referring to...
    But I am desperate and will try anything..
    I started by inserting a softsynth track, so its not on a midi track (if that makes any difference)
     
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 21:51:32 (permalink)
       If you loaded the synth as a simple instrument track, right click on it and select split instrument track. Then you will have an audio track for the synth and a midi track that drives it. At the bottom of the inspector are the tabs for selecting inputs and outputs.
       After you split the track select the resulting midi track. Then you can set its output to any available midi out or loaded synth. 
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/27 22:12:41 (permalink)
    Sorry the kids needed help with their computer so I was unable to finish my earlier reply...
     
       So, After you split the instrument track, record enable the first synth audio track and record it beginning to end.
    Then change the output of the midi track to the second synth (If it is also a simple instrument track, split it also and delete the midi track) record enable it and record beginning to end.
     
    #7
    brundlefly
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/28 00:36:44 (permalink)
    My standard "piano" sound is a combination of layered acoustic and electric pianos. Both happen to be from hardware synths, but it shouldn't make much difference to the following.
     
    What you want to do is arm only one of the MIDI/Instrument tracks to record, and after recording, Ctrl+Shift+drag-copy the recorded MIDI to the other track with 'Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips' enabled in preferences. Shift constrains the time so the copy remains aligned. The linked clips will be indicated by dotted lines around their perimeters. With linked clips, any edit you make in one clip is automatically applied to all others (the clips are really just pointers to one set of MIDI events in memory).
     
    Taking this approach should eliminate a lot of your issues. But I do enough editing of piano recordings with lots of sustain (also using soft synths sometimes) to know that it's likely the issues you encountered were largely self-inflicted, though it's difficult to say exactly what you might have done wrong. One way or another, it sounds like you moved the controllers independently of notes such that the pedal down was occurring after the note(s) had already ended.
     
    One thing to watch out for is when quantizing, be sure to leave 'Only Notes and Lyrics' checked to exclude Controllers. Quantizing sustain events can make bad things happen, especially if you ever quantize to 100%.
     
    On the other hand, you'll want to make sure to enable 'Select Controllers Along with Notes' in the Controllers tab of the PRV so that pedal events maintain their positions relative to notes when you drag the notes.

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    #8
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Recording 2 simultaneous tracks sustain pedal problems 2016/05/28 10:37:21 (permalink)
    +1 to above post.  That's more or less what I've always done.. And from past weirdness I always avoid putting the midi data in the synth instrument track. I have always used a separate track for each midi instrument as well as for each drum part.
     
    When editing goes weird on me I always assume I've toggled a feature I didn't want. Hit undo and try again. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #9
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