schwa
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Stage Fright
I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I have been wrestling with this for many years. Sonar is a wonderful tool, and so much more powerful than when I started with Cakewalk Audio many years ago. My problem is that I am afraid of recording. It seems every time I hit that red button, I am left with disappointing results. In the past, I have blamed it on my tools - that I am missing some plug or instrument, or that my mics or pres aren't "good enough". Well, I have run out of excuses, I can't blame it on tools anymore. I'm not sure if anyone else has faced this problem, but I'd be interested to hear how you got past it.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/01 23:09:29
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☄ Helpfulby SteveTrotta 2016/06/06 15:28:55
Thats what loop record and take management are for :) Start recording and keep trying until you feel comfortable and play your best. Then go back and discard all the bad takes. Or better get someone else to press the record button for you. I find that helpful!
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bitman
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/01 23:36:43
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slartabartfast
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/01 23:48:45
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I am assuming that you are concerned about the recording process per se, and not the material that is being recorded. In the latter case, Noel has good advice. If the former, your situation could be due to two issues: 1. Your recording is sub par. 2. Your expectations are excessively high. 1. Could be related to the studio environment, the equipment quality or the technique of using the equipment (mic choice and placement, level setting etc.). If the problem is technical competence, then recognize that recording engineers, who often are in separate bodies than mixing engineers, have typically spent thousands of hours learning to use the best equipment to capture the sound at the best quality it will deliver. If you are a professional recording engineer, then it might be fair to compare yourself to the best in your field. If not... 2. Could be related to the fact that you are comparing your recording to stuff you hear on the radio. That stuff is not really recording in the sense that it much resembles the dry tracks that capture the original performance. It has typically gone through hours of processing by experienced specialized mixing engineers followed as often as not by another pass through a mastering engineer's hands (ears?). In the event that you are getting great dry recordings, but less than polished professional final products, then unless you are a professional or have the same levels of experience, setting this as a goal may be a bridge too far. There is a rough rule of thumb that it requires about 10,000 hours of practice to achieve mastery of most skills. A professional working forty hours a week, fifty weeks a year will get to that level in five years. I for one do not expect to live long enough to master these skills at the level of my involvement in what is just a hobby. In any case, it is missing the mark to experience fear at the initial stage of the process of making a record. Wait until you have completed the process, done your best at every stage, and then revel in the disappointment, shake your head at the waste of your limited life essence and start over. Or just quit and find something you enjoy more.
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soens
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 03:39:46
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Relax and don't worry about anything. Hit "record" and act like you didn't. Some guys used to admit to only singing in the shower. There's also something to be said about public restrooms with tiled walls. Other things that might work: Solitary confinement Well padded isolation booth Alone in the car
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sonarman1
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 03:54:32
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soens Relax and don't worry about anything. Hit "record" and act like you didn't. Some guys used to admit to only singing in the shower. There's also something to be said about public restrooms with tiled walls. Other things that might work: Solitary confinement Well padded isolation booth Alone in the car
That makes me think of one of the feature in Logic. You dont have to press the rec button in logic. Just keep playing. Once you feel like you have played something great just recall it by hitting a keyboard shortcut. Hope I am not wrong abt this. Its really great feature coz you are not gonna be conscious that you are recording something. Its like recording what you were singing in the shower. Only you never knew its getting recorded. You can play them back later lol
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soens
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 04:08:28
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 Sometimes being "self aware" isn't a benefit.
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tenfoot
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 04:36:06
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A glass of red wine before you hit the red button -  Best not on every take though!
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Woodyoflop
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 04:50:16
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What tenfoot said, however, we may have different tastes in alcohol lol. Also like what Noel said, try to find someone else to hit the record button for u, this allows u to JUST focus on your performance. They dont have to be engineers... just someone your comfortable to press one a single button to record you. If your having good recordings and just cant seem to get the mix right... im sure there's plenty people here that would love to help out if you post the song for a listen and give some advice. From my experience most people here on these forums just want to promote the art of music and willing to help in almost any way.
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patm300e
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 10:27:31
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All the other person needs to know is where the R key is!
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WallyG
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 12:37:38
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schwa ...My problem is that I am afraid of recording. It seems every time I hit that red button, I am left with disappointing results...
I had a band for 40 years. Every time I got up on the stage, I would be nervous, since I wanted it to be a great gig. My son is an excellent musician (Trpt, Clar, Sax, Keyboard, Drums) now living in Japan. We are collaborating on several songs. He recently sent me a .wav file of a drum part, but later said that he wants to do it over. He stated that as soon as he hits the record button he would tense up. Here’s someone that has played professionally in my band since he was 12 years old (now 48). You’re not alone. Like the man said, “Just do your best!” Walt
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 13:01:56
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schwa I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I have been wrestling with this for many years. Sonar is a wonderful tool, and so much more powerful than when I started with Cakewalk Audio many years ago. My problem is that I am afraid of recording. It seems every time I hit that red button, I am left with disappointing results. In the past, I have blamed it on my tools - that I am missing some plug or instrument, or that my mics or pres aren't "good enough". Well, I have run out of excuses, I can't blame it on tools anymore. I'm not sure if anyone else has faced this problem, but I'd be interested to hear how you got past it.
You are not alone. I refer to the record button as the suck button. In this age most people just edit instead of retakes.
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brundlefly
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 13:33:26
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☄ Helpfulby Klaus 2016/06/04 18:38:33
Try recording without a click and using Set Measure/Beat At Now to align the timeline after the fact to facilitate editing, arranging, punching in, adding MIDI tracks, etc. if needed. Having to follow a click adds to the tension and can make you rush/drag in an unnatural way, and more extremely than you would when 'marching to the beat your own drummer' as it were. And whether you record to a click or not, having the project tempo set where you naturally play the piece when performing freely can be very helpful. This is how I set the project tempo after rehearsing for a while to get the natural tempo going in my head: - Disable Stop at Project End in Track View Options if it isn't already so you can run the transport in an empty project. - Start playback (preferably by Spacebar) with no click sounding, count off a couple-few measures in your head at the tempo you've been playing, and stop the transport on the next downbeat. - Shift+M to open Set Measure/Beat At Now, and enter that measure and beat. - SONAR will set the tempo to make the specified beat fall on the absolute Now time where you stopped the transport. In an empty project with low latency audio buffer, the start/stop of the transport should be pretty much instantaneous so you get a very accurate tempo.
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Sidroe
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 13:55:06
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/06/06 18:45:34
I can not tell you how many times I have asked the artist just to run thru the take for me to get levels and warmup a little. Little did they know I record every time they play or sing just because you never know when something magical will happen just on that one verse or chorus or solo! Most times, we usually get the keeper in a matter of minutes as opposed to hours, simply because they are not aware that the light is on. I have many friends who are both amateur and professional level players and singers that suffer from the same feeling. It is completely natural to have those feelings. After playing in groups for years and never even thinking about being nervous, I found myself wrestling with stage fright when I downsized to playing solo with tracks! There was no one else to rely on up there! No one else to blame mistakes on! And you feel as if everyone in the room can hear your heart banging away like a drum! You just have to do the hard work ahead of time which means practice, practice, practice until you can perform in your sleep. The self confidence will come the more you do the work. You are in the beginning stages of your development as an artist, engineer, producer. It is a long road and a lot of train wrecks along the way but if you are serious about your art, you will succeed. Don't worry about the light being on. It's just a bunch of pixels!! You are in control of it! It does not control you! I have had to remind myself of that more times than I like to admit. I wish you luck and I am eager to hear that first of many tracks that you will be cranking out in no time!
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Cactus Music
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 14:39:58
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☄ Helpfulby sonarman1 2016/06/02 23:52:20
+1 to what Sid just said. Don't tell them your recording and you get the most natural take of the session. I highly recommend picking up a Tascam or Zoom handy recorder.. They are only $100 and indispensable for catching ideas and learning to relax on the couch. There might just be something overly intimidating about sitting in front of a massively powerful DAW with unlimited possibilities. A simple little recorder on the other hand, is very un intimidating. And unlike a cell phone, the quality can be first class if you place it just so.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/06/02 15:01:20
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dwardzala
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 18:07:21
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Its the fact that we know "tape don't lie." When we are performing we usually are not able to evaluate the performance that much and wrong notes just evaporate into the ether never to be heard from again (except in my case where I will make the same mistakes over and over again.) But when we are recording, we know that every mistake we are aware of when we play and all the ones we aren't are going to show up on that recording and be forever captured (or at least until we hit CRTL-Z or punch record over it.) For me, I really try to not worry about the first mistake I make and any subsequent ones I make because I can record another take, punch in to fix the mistake, or edit the track. Once you realize that a mistake is not the end of the world and its actually part of the process it becomes easier. At least it does for me.
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Sidroe
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/02 20:09:26
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Another piece of advice, if I may. It is very easy to obsess over things like," I'm not using the $1000 compressor plugin that Chris Lord Alge uses", or now that you recorded you just can't find that "HOLY GRAIL" guitar tone from the latest 14 fingered whiz kid guitar player album! Don't get caught up in second guessing your workflow. Find something that satisfies you as well as it can and move on!!! All this power and gear and edit capability can kill your creativity faster than a cop knocking on the door to tell you your too loud, knock it off!! You can attend to microscopic details later. You have to get the whole picture in there first! Trust me, the more you work, the more at ease with the process you will become.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/04 11:22:07
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And if you want to double the stage fright factor.. do like I do and record all your live performances!!
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kevinwal
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/04 20:48:03
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I get nervous because I know that the take will suck. And it usually does! That's because I'm not much of a singer and I really dislike the sound of my own voice. And I mean I dislike it a lot. Still, recording a take gets much easier with the umpty-bazillionth take. I find that I've gone through the entire four stages of grieving the fact that I don't have Jon Mayer's voice after a couple of hundred tries, and I relax into it. I even start to find ways to do things I didn't think I could do, and after a while I even start to overlook the hideous nasal screeching that is my vocal gift to humanity. Oh, and it helps me a great deal if I know the material front-to-back after rehearsing it a thousand times. Good luck, OP, your post has struck a nerve, methinks.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/04 23:09:58
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just chock it up to experience, the more you record, the easier it gets. im not going to lie though, there are still days where tough passages frustrate me after 10 takes. Noel is correct though, use take lanes. I don't use them that much but in your situation. learn about them. I only use them on the tough stuff. I feel once you start popping out take lanes on every track, you take a way the fundamentals of inspirational recording which in my opinion is more important then the material you are recording. once its polished to much, its ruined. you can only polish a turd so much before you look at it and say "its still a turd". inspiration is captured through flaws and imperfections. something take lanes were never designed for
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MGC59
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/05 15:40:41
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I do 4 takes of everything I record....I have a great setup to ensure that they are all pretty evenly matched volume-wise...I then cobble together a final take from all the best pieces. Rarely does an early take make the finished product....it's mostly about confidence....by the 3rd or 4th take, you're usually pretty confident...
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/06 11:57:08
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/06/06 13:01:17
I call this "Red Light Syndrome". The only way to get "beyond" it is to keep moving forward. You'll ultimately become less anxious during the process. As has been mentioned, loop recording can help. There's a point where you're more "locked-in" with the desired feel. For me, that's usually some mid-point in the takes. On early takes... I might not be totally focused. On later takes (at least for me)... the part can start to mutate into something else. Aside from technical perfection, there's also the emotional facet. Too many takes (too much analytical thinking) can squash the emotional impact of a track.
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SimpleM
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/06 13:57:32
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Sidroe I can not tell you how many times I have asked the artist just to run thru the take for me to get levels and warmup a little. Little did they know I record every time they play or sing just because you never know when something magical will happen just on that one verse or chorus or solo!
This has been my standard M.O. for the last 20 years. Only works a couple of times per artist though, they get wise to it.
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jimkleban
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/06 21:56:11
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There is a story about Tony Banks from GENESIS. He too had stage freight when it came to recording. Not when the entire band were playing but when it was time for him to do overdubs. The intros to FoF and The Lamb are some examples. The engineer would fool Tony into thinking the take was just to check the microphone placement and settings. In this mode, TB could make it all the way through the take. So, fear not, you are in great company. :-) Jim
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schwa
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/06 22:06:04
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Thanks to all for the good advice. I think I'm going to have to look into loop recording.
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sonarman1
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/07 01:58:23
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Capture Last Take As Recording. This is a cool thing not just for recording without being consious abt it. But also in many other ways. Think about the times we hit the play button and thought we are recording. Wish sonar has this. https://ask.audio/article...ing-for-midi-and-audio You wont get nervous anticipating the recording if you practice capturing them from playback. here I have started a feature request on this do vote http://forum.cakewalk.com...ecording-m3430634.aspx
post edited by sonarman1 - 2016/06/07 02:22:35
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Sidroe
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/07 10:05:24
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SimpleM, Gee, I hope none of the guys and gals I work with read this!!! I set up the auto punch-in, punch-out for the entire song. That way, I can even leave the room and they don't see me hitting record!! It's amazing how that little trick has worked so well over the years. Oh,well! The cat's out of the bag now!! LOL!!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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SilentMind
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/07 12:33:29
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Hey hey, Worked my way through similar issues when I was younger, albeit in a round-about sort of way. I noticed early on that the RECORD light is a blessing really, much like a live performance it screams "If you're gonna do this, all you can rely on is what is in your hands and mind NOW". After much practice you'll see that this pressure really pushes you to the limits and often leads to surprisingly cool results just as long as you can learn to 'live the moment, surf the now...". Its a skill like any other, being spontaneous that is. Secondly I'd recommend checking out some 'demo project' recordings. These are the 'raw sketches' that lead to epic studio recordings. They're loose, ragged, sound entirely imperfect and have little concern for anything but sheer creative bravado - be so blunt and to the point that even those that dont like it will have to admit you / the band / the song are really going for it. Once you are content to show ideas through sketches / demos this will take all the pressure off making it sound like a produced CD. Its just a means of communication then, get the melodies, harmonies and rhythms clear and you're set. Hopefully you can see how the two things above come together. So much of confidence is getting things out the way so that your true self and skills can breathe. Relaxation and focus create the bucket, your natural creative spark will flood and thats when it gets interesting. Now go improvise some music! :D
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gswitz
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Re: Stage Fright
2016/06/07 13:07:48
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I practice with record on.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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