Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red?

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AdamGrossmanLG
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2016/06/05 23:49:18 (permalink)

Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red?

So I have a softsynth snare sound coming from a VST.   It is showing the  red clipping light warning.  Funny thing is, the signal is not peaking higher than -12db.  I notice if I turn the prochannel off, the warning light goes away... but my prochannel has NOTHING effecting the sound.  I have the EQ doing nothing and just an empty FX bin which I am using as a gain for automation.
 
Any help would be MUCH appreciated.  I assume I can ignore this warning as I am truly not clipping??
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 00:07:33 (permalink)
    I assume you mean the PC indicator in the Console view in the Tungsten theme; is that right? That indicator fades through shades of orange and red as the signal level drops before going gray when there's absolutely no signal at all. It's a bit of an odd implementation since we tend to associate red with hot. But in this case, it's more like an incandescent light fading to red as the filament (tungsten?) cools. 

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    tlw
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 06:47:41 (permalink)
    If the track is holding MIDI data (easy way to tell is the fader value's set to 100 rather than dB and/or you can open the track in the piano roll or step sequencer) then the red "light" at the top of the meter will blink every time the track sends or receives MIDI data.

    There's no need to warn of "clipping" in MIDI because there's no such thing. So the red light gets used for the more useful purpose of indicating MIDI activity.

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    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 11:46:23 (permalink)
    tlw
    If the track is holding MIDI data (easy way to tell is the fader value's set to 100 rather than dB and/or you can open the track in the piano roll or step sequencer) then the red "light" at the top of the meter will blink every time the track sends or receives MIDI data.

    There's no need to warn of "clipping" in MIDI because there's no such thing. So the red light gets used for the more useful purpose of indicating MIDI activity.



    Actually this is the audio portion of a simple instrument track, so this clipping indicator IS reading the audio being passed through.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 13:00:58 (permalink)
    OK, I re-read the OP a few times, and figured out you mean you have an empty 'FX Chain' module in the Prochannel that you're using to add gain, and it's the audio track meter that's showing clip indicator when the gain in the Prochannel is active.
     
    Do you have your playback meters set to show Peak or RMS+Peak? If not, you could be getting peaks over 0dB with RMS not going over -12dB.
     
    Incidentally more conventional approaches to raising signal level in a track with existing Volume automation would be:
     
    - Raise the input Gain.
    - Enable Offset Mode in the Mix Module, raise the track Volume, and switch back to Envelope Mode; The automation will ride on top of the offset.

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    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 14:22:55 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    OK, I re-read the OP a few times, and figured out you mean you have an empty 'FX Chain' module in the Prochannel that you're using to add gain, and it's the audio track meter that's showing clip indicator when the gain in the Prochannel is active.
     
    Do you have your playback meters set to show Peak or RMS+Peak? If not, you could be getting peaks over 0dB with RMS not going over -12dB.
     
    Incidentally more conventional approaches to raising signal level in a track with existing Volume automation would be:
      
    - Raise the input Gain.
    - Enable Offset Mode in the Mix Module, raise the track Volume, and switch back to Envelope Mode; The automation will ride on top of the offset.




    By default Sonar shows the peaks when tracking.. and I am nowhere near 0db.  I am peaking at -10db with a consistent sound. 

    Also there are no gain adjustments, I simply put an empty FX bin into the prochannel, turn it on,and all the sudden the clipping light comes on. I know I am not, not too worried about it, but it means I can't use these lights as a true indicator.
     
    The reason I use the FX bin for the gain instead of the actual gain knob is because I can automate it.   I actually use THAT as a volume automation than the volume.  Reason is when I am doing my gain staging, and I need to lower a track a few dB and reach for the volume slider, sometimes I forget that it was automated and my adjustment does nothing.   

    I guess its just a workflow kinda thing that I've been doing for years.
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    Resonant Serpent
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 14:30:03 (permalink)
    If it's an electronic snare, you could be getting a transient that's slipping past the meter. The best idea for all electronic drums is to keep a limiter on the channel set to .03 to keep if from going past 0. I ran into this a lot using Reaktor glitch plugs.

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    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 14:53:15 (permalink)
    Resonant Serpent
    If it's an electronic snare, you could be getting a transient that's slipping past the meter. The best idea for all electronic drums is to keep a limiter on the channel set to .03 to keep if from going past 0. I ran into this a lot using Reaktor glitch plugs.


    but I would see that on the track meter.   The peak is reading out at -10db
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 15:28:28 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Also there are no gain adjustments, I simply put an empty FX bin into the prochannel, turn it on,and all the sudden the clipping light comes on. I know I am not, not too worried about it, but it means I can't use these lights as a true indicator.



    So you're saying the numeric peak indicator in the track header is not going over -10, but the clip lights at the top of the meter are getting lit? I don't recall ever hearing of these two indications being significantly out of sync. The worst discrepancy I've seen myself was having the meter's clip indicators lit with the numeric indicator showing 0.0 in gray instead of red.
     
    Can you repro this in a new project? If not, I would recommend you keep poking around to figure out what's different about this track/project. Or send a copy of it to the Bakers with a Problem Report.
     
     

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    Resonant Serpent
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    Re: Why Is Clipping Warning Light Turning Red? 2016/06/06 17:29:34 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Resonant Serpent
    If it's an electronic snare, you could be getting a transient that's slipping past the meter. The best idea for all electronic drums is to keep a limiter on the channel set to .03 to keep if from going past 0. I ran into this a lot using Reaktor glitch plugs.


    but I would see that on the track meter.   The peak is reading out at -10db




    It's happens because transients on electronic drums can be so small that the meter doesn't catch them. Especially high frequency content. Set up a limiter, and it'll show you that it's going above -10db. You can also try a transient design effect, or a filter, and that will stop it.

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