RedSkyRoad
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Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
Hi,
Each time when I get back into making music and setting SONAR, for the life of me I cannot remember this one setting. I've posted about it at length before but with the new migration of the User profiles, i cannot find those post in my profile.
The setting that I'm after changes the volume sliders from a set that is effected by automation and a set that stays fixed, regardless of volume level automation.
Could someone please remind me what this setting is?
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Zargg
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 14:07:45
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Hi. Could it be so easy as to uncheck write enabled on the track itself, or globally if needed?
All the best.
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Midiboy
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 14:32:46
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☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2016/06/09 11:53:56
Do you mean if you have automation on the track, you want to "bypass" the automation and have a separate control of the volume...to say...increase the overall volume of the track?
That would be Ctrl-O
I think O stands for Override. Not sure. The other solution is to send the automated track to a bus and use the bus for the overall volume.
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Beepster
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 14:44:15
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☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2016/06/09 11:49:30
Midiboy
Do you mean if you have automation on the track, you want to "bypass" the automation and have a separate control of the volume...to say...increase the overall volume of the track?
That would be Ctrl-O
I think O stands for Override. Not sure. The other solution is to send the automated track to a bus and use the bus for the overall volume.
This seems to be the answer you are looking for. It's actually called "Offset"... as in it "offsets" the levels caused by your automation envelopes and allows you to just adjust the overal level that is produced by the envelope(s). This can cause other issues/confusion though because AFAIK it is a global setting. There are workarounds to avoid the problems caused by faders being overtaken by envelopes though without resorting to Offset mode. If you are interested I, and I'm sure others, could provide extra info. Cheers.
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Midiboy
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 14:48:24
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OFFSET! That's right. The bus solution I talked about is one such method to have a separate control of the volume on an automated channel. There are also tricks you can do with plugins as well, but, depending on the plug, you could be at risk of introducing extra noise or other unwanted things.
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bvideo
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 14:54:56
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Are you thinking of "offset mode"? Offset mode changes the level relative to normal mode. Normal mode follows automation.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:11:44
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WARNING!
If you engage offset mode and don't switch back to envelope mode, all your fader moves will apply to previously written automation.
Usual methodology is to engage Offset, make the moves you want and switch it off again.
At least this is how I've grown to use it.
BTW, ctrl & O or O by itself doesn't work any more. There is a specific button in the Mix Module of the Control Bar.
I guess it was too easy before to accidentally hit O and before you knew it, your mix was a mess!!
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Beepster
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:11:57
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☄ Helpfulby RedSkyRoad 2016/06/09 11:57:07
Midiboy
OFFSET! That's right. The bus solution I talked about is one such method to have a separate control of the volume on an automated channel. There are also tricks you can do with plugins as well, but, depending on the plug, you could be at risk of introducing extra noise or other unwanted things.
This is a scook trick.. and is actually based on an old Anderton trick: To get a effect insert volume control that does NOT have any risk of adding any effects you can insert an empty FX Chain module into either the Prochannel or the FX bin. You put this immediately BEFORE the track fader (so either at the bottom of the Prochannel Chain or the FX Rack/Bin chain). NOTE: You need to pay attention to your Pre/Post status on the Prochannel to make sure the FX Chain Module is indeed placed directly BEFORE the main track fader. eg: If you have your Prochannel BEFORE the FX Rack/Bin then put the FX Chain module in the FX Rack/Bin. If you have the Prochannel AFTER the FX Rack/Bin then insert the FX Chain into the Prochannel as a "ProChannel Module". This has to be an EMPTY FX Chain (or at least an FX Chain with all the FX turned off but why insert extra effects just for a volume control?). Now instead of creating a Volume Envelope that will overtake your track fader you simply automate the Output level on your FX Chain module. This is the same as automating your fader (as long as you make sure the Chain appears directly BEFORE the track fader in your chain using the Pre/Post status of the Prochannel as I described above). It also avoid the rather confusing and heavy fisted "Offset" option. Just putting that out there for anyone interested in this very cool trick. Again all credit goes to scook and Anderton. Anderton's trick was from the X1 Advanced series where he used the "Tube" Prochannel module to accomplish this but since then we now have Prochannel FX Chains which do the same job but better/foolproof.... which is what scook pointed out to me a while back. The extra overthinking of the technique though is me just being a spazz and goofing around with it. Cheers.
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Midiboy
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:15:33
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Regarding the skook / Anderton trick...seems like sending a track to a bus would be easier...
As to the CTRL - O not working any longer...yes. It does.
You have to select a track on the console first. Click the track. Then CTRL - O. You can't just CTRL - O any longer.
Though now you have me doubting myself. lol. Now I want to go home and try it. lol.
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subtlearts
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:23:27
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Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
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Zargg
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:25:48
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subtlearts
Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
 
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Midiboy
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:26:28
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subtlearts
Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
That's awesome!
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subtlearts
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:29:40
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It's actually only a slight exaggeration. I honestly have no idea how to use it and really am scared to do so lest it completely annihilate the entire gain structure of my mix. I'm sure it's not as bad as I've built it up to be, and might even be wonderfully useful... but I may never find out for sure.
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Beepster
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:38:11
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Midiboy
Regarding the skook / Anderton trick...seems like sending a track to a bus would be easier...
Not really because then you have a whole other strip to keep track of. I (as usual) likely made it sound more complicated than it is but I wanted to make sure all the details of the technique were in the post. All it is really is "Hey, I really need to create some volume automation on this track but don't want to lose fader control." Insert empty FX Chain in PC or Rack and make sure it's at the end of the chain. Create an envelope pointing to the Output of the FX Chain module. This way it's right on the track and gets completely out of your way. You don't even have to think about it anymore unless you want to adjust the envelope. Check it out. subtlearts
Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
I haven't done this yet but many others do to avoid the dreaded "ACCIDENTALLY OFFSET" nightmare is to go into the Hotkey Preferences and remove the "O" key from the keybinding list. I really should get around to it but I haven't triggered that one in a while and I think I'd notice it pretty quick. Still... been meaning to do that. Cheers.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:40:51
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subtlearts
Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
Ha ha ha ha!! Good one Offset mode used to scare the crud out of me as well, but I needed to reduce a whole bunch of envelopes down by 3dB without touching input gain, bus volumes or anything else. So I took the plunge and tried it. Since then (about 2 months ago) I've been using it rather more and I'm totally converted. It's so easy to make changes en masse but you MUST MUST MUST switch it back off when you're done Hitting Ctrl + O here opens up the File Open dialog, irrespective of what is selected
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Jesse G
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/08 15:48:25
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RedSkyRoad
Hi,
Each time when I get back into making music and setting SONAR, for the life of me I cannot remember this one setting. I've posted about it at length before but with the new migration of the User profiles, i cannot find those post in my profile.
The setting that I'm after changes the volume sliders from a set that is effected by automation and a set that stays fixed, regardless of volume level automation.
Could someone please remind me what this setting is?
RedSkyRoad Now that you were given the answer, how about making this a project Template so the next time you want to see offset used on a project, you just call up the Offset Project Template. Save it in the same location as your Normal Template and select it as a new Template to use. Set up the template the way you want and it will be there to use whenever you need it. Save it here: C:\ Cakewalk Content\Sonar Platinum\Project Templates.
Peace,Jesse G. A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
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tenfoot
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 07:59:16
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subtlearts
Offset mode scares me. I actually think it's a kind of black magic. If I notice that I've accidentally engaged it, I immediately run screaming from the room, and only return in full-protection kevlar body armour. With a flamethrower. Lost a few good computers that way, and burned down the whole house once or twice, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
Hahaha. It's a pretty cool feature though - I use it a lot. The trick is to not forget to turn it off once you're done adusting.
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Midiboy
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 08:20:36
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Beepster
Not really because then you have a whole other strip to keep track of. I (as usual) likely made it sound more complicated than it is but I wanted to make sure all the details of the technique were in the post.
All it is really is "Hey, I really need to create some volume automation on this track but don't want to lose fader control."
OH! I totally get it now! Thanks! That makes perfect sense! I love it!
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RedSkyRoad
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 11:52:25
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Thanks for everyone who chimed in. It IS offset mode indeed :)
I make use of extensive volume automation and sometimes a certain instrument is just too soft with regards to the other ones, thus I use offset mode to lift the WHOLE track a bit up or down :)
Regards,
B
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RedSkyRoad
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 12:07:06
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Jesse G
RedSkyRoad
Hi,
Each time when I get back into making music and setting SONAR, for the life of me I cannot remember this one setting. I've posted about it at length before but with the new migration of the User profiles, i cannot find those post in my profile.
The setting that I'm after changes the volume sliders from a set that is effected by automation and a set that stays fixed, regardless of volume level automation.
Could someone please remind me what this setting is?
RedSkyRoad
Now that you were given the answer, how about making this a project Template so the next time you want to see offset used on a project, you just call up the Offset Project Template. Save it in the same location as your Normal Template and select it as a new Template to use. Set up the template the way you want and it will be there to use whenever you need it.
Save it here: C:\ Cakewalk Content\Sonar Platinum\Project Templates.
Hey, I DID make a note in my "PC Music Setup" folder but I lost all my stuff to a burglary. I lost 10 years of production project files, samples I created, all lost... It's only this week (after a 3 year lapse), that I dusted everything off and plugged it all in again :) I'm still LIVID about all my perfectly crafted HiHats and claps I lost.
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Klaus
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 15:46:56
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I've bound Offset Mode to the caps lock key on my keyboard. It's one with an LED to show the on/off caps lock status. One reminder more! 
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RedSkyRoad
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/09 15:49:28
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Klaus
I've bound Offset Mode to the caps lock key on my keyboard.
It's one with an LED to show the on/off caps lock status.
One reminder more!
Very clever idea. Gonna do it right now...
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stevec
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Re: Two sets of Volume sliders in Consol
2016/06/10 13:49:41
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Just to add to the above... I've been an Offset Mode user practically since day one and have found it to be one of my most used features. The ability to change the value of an already automated control without having to grab an envelope and all its nodes and wiggle it up or down is priceless for me. Plus, the envelope itself never changes so its relative node and line positions remain intact.
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