abacab
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Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
Is anybody seeing numbers like this using ASIO with USB2?  I have a 10 year old Firewire 410 that still works well on my newest desktop with an add-on firewire card. My old laptop had a firewire port, but my new laptop only has USB2 & USB3. So if I was going to get a USB2 audio interface, is there any chance could I get the same buffer setting to work on the laptop?
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 12:52:27
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/11 16:30:53
It will depend on the audio interface/driver manufacturer, and possibly on the specific USB adapter. RME and some others have extremely good USB latency performance, but many do not. Many USB interfaces also have a lot of non-buffer-related latency, some of which may not be reported. In your example, there is 314 - 2 x 64 = 186 samples of hardware/firmware latency (FW interface and A/D/A conversion) being reported in addition to the buffer latency. Some USB interfaces will do better than that, and some worse. But you'd have to measure the acutal RTL using comething like the free CEntrance latency tester to know whether the reported RTL is accurate.
By way of comparison, at 64 samples, the reported RTL on my MOTU (PCIe) interface is 173 samples, and the actual, measured RTL is actually 2 samples lower than that (with most interfaces, it will be higher).
EDIT: I should point out, too, that 'mixing latency' is technically only the Output side, but most users are more concerned with monitoring latency, which is the total RTL.
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JonD
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 13:01:03
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/11 16:31:16
What's your budget?
RME and MOTU are the usual suggestions for low latency on USB2.
On the less expensive end, you should check out the second generation Focusrite Scarlett Series (The first generation are still being sold, but the latencies are just so-so. You need to look for 2nd gen). The lower, bus-power models of the series are already available, but the top three models (6i6, 18i8, and 18i20) are due for release later this month or early next.
There's also the Zoom UAC-2/8 interfaces. You will need USB 3 for these (I believe they work with USB2, but you won't get the low latencies).
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fireberd
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 13:34:06
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/11 16:31:21
My MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid (USB 2.0) with a 64 sample setting gets Input 2.7msec, Output 3.3msec total roundtrip 6.1ms.
I also have a Roland Octa-Capture (USB 2.0) and it is Input 4.8msec, Output 2.8ms, Total roundtrip 7.6ms.
This is much better than I did with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 and Firewire. Best I could do (reliably) was Input 11.4 ms (don't remember output or total).
The MOTU gets the same latency on both Windows 10 and Windows 7 (I have a dual boot system) with the same hardware. However, the Octa-Capture is slightly better on Win 10. On Win 7 I get Input 6.2 msec (reliably).
I tried a Presonus Studio 192, which is USB 3.0 interface and at 64 samples it was about the same as the Octa-Capture. I only had it two days. The first day it worked OK, the second day it developed a problem (would not power off) and was sent back and replaced with the MOTU (both the same price at B&H).
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 13:48:03
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fireberd
I tried a Presonus Studio 192, which is USB 3.0 interface and at 64 samples it was about the same as the Octa-Capture.
I looked hard at the Presonus interfaces when I was last shopping, but voted them off the island because of the unusually high latency at any given buffer size that users were reporting.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:07:41
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brundlefly
It will depend on the audio interface/driver manufacturer, and possibly on the specific USB adapter. RME and some others have extremely good USB latency performance, but many do not. Many USB interfaces also have a lot of non-buffer-related latency, some of which may not be reported.
I expected that might be the case. It sounds like there is a wide, rather than narrow, range of latencies among different USB interfaces. That is one reason I originally went with FireWire, due to the technical differences in how the bus types were handled by the PC. FireWire 400 supports speeds of up to 400Mbps, while USB 2.0 operates at 480Mbps. That's enough bandwidth to record and playback more tracks than I will ever need. But I was more concerned about the "other" types of latency occurring with the USB bus. FireWire operations didn’t require as much work from the host system’s CPU; and FireWire could transfer data in both directions simultaneously (“full-duplex”) where USB 2.0 using a polling mechanism arbitrated by the host can only send or receive data (Half duplex). Apple stopped including FireWire due to cost and other factors, and USB2.0 "is good enough" for most uses, except for applications that justify high-end PCIe and Thunderbolt variants. brundlefly
In your example, there is 314 - 2 x 64 = 186 samples of hardware/firmware latency (FW interface and A/D/A conversion) being reported in addition to the buffer latency. Some USB interfaces will do better than that, and some worse. But you'd have to measure the acutal RTL using comething like the free CEntrance latency tester to know whether the reported RTL is accurate.
I was hoping here that some folks could say "Hey, I'm getting this RTL [x.y msec] with [insert-interface]" just to get a rough idea of what to expect. I realize that my mileage may vary. brundlefly
EDIT: I should point out, too, that 'mixing latency' is technically only the Output side, but most users are more concerned with monitoring latency, which is the total RTL.
It would be nice to be able to take my laptop on the road and maybe play virtual instruments ('mixing latency'), or record a buddy's guitar with some effects in the box (' monitoring latency'). So both factors are important to me. Just for reference, the laptop is: Intel Core i5-4210U, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Windows 8.1(x64). Don't judge ... it was not bought with audio in mind. It serves as a portable office. I already have a DAW desktop PC :-) Thanks for the feedback!
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fireberd
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:12:31
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Presonus has a self setting function that is supposed to set the optimum latency based on the PC system. When I first installed it and it auto adjusted, the latency was very high - about 20 ms input and same output with 1024 samples. But manually setting it to 64 samples brought it down to a useable level (as I previously mentioned about what I posted for the Octa-Capture).
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eikelbijter
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:18:06
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Motu, RME or.....
Those new Zoom USB3 interfaces have astoundingly low AND usuable RTLs! I'm about to order one myself...
R
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jb101
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:18:52
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/11 16:31:33
I have just moved from Firewire to USB. I am getting these figures with my new Soundcraft 12MTK 
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:30:13
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JonD
What's your budget?
RME and MOTU are the usual suggestions for low latency on USB2.
On the less expensive end, you should check out the second generation Focusrite Scarlett Series (The first generation are still being sold, but the latencies are just so-so. You need to look for 2nd gen). The lower, bus-power models of the series are already available, but the top three models (6i6, 18i8, and 18i20) are due for release later this month or early next.
There's also the Zoom UAC-2/8 interfaces. You will need USB 3 for these (I believe they work with USB2, but you won't get the low latencies).
Looking for something portable to toss in the laptop bag for occasional mobile use. As far as the budget and needs go, I have looked at the Focusrite 2i2 & 4i4. They seem to be nice portable units for the price, with good reviews. I have heard that the 2nd gen likely resolved the issue with hot guitar inputs on the pre-amps. Also looked at the Tascam US-2x2 & 4x4, seem well designed and built, a good value, but have seen a few reviews that mentioned they're not the best in the latency dept. The NI Komplete looks interesting, and is probably near the top of my budget. I really like the MOTU Audio Express with both FireWire & USB2 connections. It's a bit above my budget for this purpose, but definitely top of the list as a replacement for my M-Audio FW410 on the main PC if it ever quits on me :-D And that Zoom looks awesome! But it may be overkill for my needs, unless I havet a sudden GAS attack, LOL :-D Edit: I just noticed a smaller Zoom USB3 unit available (2 in/2 out); Zoom UAC-2 Two-Channel USB 3.0 SuperSpeed Audio Interface for Mac and PC. Hmmmmm ... I do have USB3 available on both PC and laptop. Plus another improvement with USB is that USB3 is now full duplex!
post edited by abacab - 2016/06/11 16:34:22
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:37:57
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jb101
I have just moved from Firewire to USB.
I am getting these figures with my new Soundcraft 12MTK
That's definitely a good round trip! Good to know! Thanks for the feedback!
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 15:53:15
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fireberd
My MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid (USB 2.0) with a 64 sample setting gets Input 2.7msec, Output 3.3msec total roundtrip 6.1ms.
I also have a Roland Octa-Capture (USB 2.0) and it is Input 4.8msec, Output 2.8ms, Total roundtrip 7.6ms.
This is much better than I did with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 and Firewire. Best I could do (reliably) was Input 11.4 ms (don't remember output or total).
The MOTU gets the same latency on both Windows 10 and Windows 7 (I have a dual boot system) with the same hardware. However, the Octa-Capture is slightly better on Win 10. On Win 7 I get Input 6.2 msec (reliably).
I tried a Presonus Studio 192, which is USB 3.0 interface and at 64 samples it was about the same as the Octa-Capture. I only had it two days. The first day it worked OK, the second day it developed a problem (would not power off) and was sent back and replaced with the MOTU (both the same price at B&H).
Those MOTU and Roland numbers look good! The impression I'm getting is that the higher end stuff USB gets the job done. I'm just wondering now how they compare to the lower end mobile units? Thanks!
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 18:12:48
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abacab
Is anybody seeing numbers like this using ASIO with USB2?
I have a 10 year old Firewire 410 that still works well on my newest desktop with an add-on firewire card. My old laptop had a firewire port, but my new laptop only has USB2 & USB3.
So if I was going to get a USB2 audio interface, is there any chance could I get the same buffer setting to work on the laptop?
I get those exact numbers with both my Fractal Audio Systems rack unit interface and my Midas M-32 console interface. I have no issues running down that low even with a decent amount of tracks and VST's. Both are USB. -Danny
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 19:33:37
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Danny Danzi
abacab
Is anybody seeing numbers like this using ASIO with USB2?
I have a 10 year old Firewire 410 that still works well on my newest desktop with an add-on firewire card. My old laptop had a firewire port, but my new laptop only has USB2 & USB3.
So if I was going to get a USB2 audio interface, is there any chance could I get the same buffer setting to work on the laptop?
I get those exact numbers with both my Fractal Audio Systems rack unit interface and my Midas M-32 console interface. I have no issues running down that low even with a decent amount of tracks and VST's. Both are USB.
-Danny
Wow, that's some serious hardware there! Good to know you can run that with USB2. I will now assume that it's not that USB that is the limiting factor, rather the quality of the drivers, and how they interact with the OS and hardware that determines the latency! Thanks!
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gprokap
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 21:05:37
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Using a loopback test, my portable 2 channel presonus USB is 1 MS FASTER than my M-Audio Firewire interface.
Can't wait for more Thunderbolt PC options which we should see in the upcoming months.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 21:38:04
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gprokap
Using a loopback test, my portable 2 channel presonus USB is 1 MS FASTER than my M-Audio Firewire interface.
Can't wait for more Thunderbolt PC options which we should see in the upcoming months.
Cool! Either that, or more USB3 interface options, which would be cheaper. Most PC's are being equipped with USB3 SuperSpeed, fully backward compatible USB connectors and cables as standard equipment now ... ;-)
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JonD
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 21:54:39
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abacab
.... Most PC's are being equipped with USB3 SuperSpeed, fully backward compatible USB connectors and cables as standard equipment now ... ;-)
I wouldn't rely on all USB3 ports being fully backward-compatible just yet. Yes, theoretically they are, but in reality, lots of folks have found flaky behavior using USB2 devices in USB3 ports. You can certainly try it, but I wouldn't risk purchasing a USB2 interface if I my laptop only had USB3 ports (Well, not without a generous store return policy).
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 23:02:57
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JonD
abacab
.... Most PC's are being equipped with USB3 SuperSpeed, fully backward compatible USB connectors and cables as standard equipment now ... ;-)
I wouldn't rely on all USB3 ports being fully backward-compatible just yet. Yes, theoretically they are, but in reality, lots of folks have found flaky behavior using USB2 devices in USB3 ports. You can certainly try it, but I wouldn't risk purchasing a USB2 interface if I my laptop only had USB3 ports (Well, not without a generous store return policy).
Well I have both USB2 & USB3 ports integrated on both my Asus Intel Ivy Bridge desktop mobo and Acer Intel Haswell laptop. So i can use either type of interface as needed. :-) My thoughts are that with more choices in the pipeline for USB3 audio interfaces that can take advantage of the free USB3 ports on modern mobos and laptops are a plus. My latest interest is either with the USB3 devices or the hybid approach that MOTU has with dual interfaces for USB2 and FireWire. I am not sure that USB3 is really needed yet, but it does build in some future compatibility. Perhaps a properly engineered USB2 interface with good drivers can equal or exceed the latency numbers for a FireWire interface.
post edited by abacab - 2016/06/11 23:27:06
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tlw
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/11 23:25:33
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Firewire is on the way out I think. RME have recently discontinued my model of UFX (USB and firewire interface) in favour of a new version that at a glance seems pretty much the same thing only with a Thunderbolt socket instead of Firewire 400.
Which makes sense. Firewire has always been problematic on Windows PCs (the well known chipset and driver issues) so most would be using USB, and Apple want a silly amount of money for a Thunderbolt->firewire convertor cable. Though firewire over TB does work very well, which is useful as no Macbook has more than two USB sockets.
As for the original UFX, performance under USB on Windows and OS X is very similar, as is firewire on OS X. There's no real advantage in latency terms to using firewire if a USB socket is available and the USB bus isn't loaded with other things that shift a lot of data such as external drives.
There's no advantage to USB3 over USB2 either as far as audio interfaces are concerned. USB2 has ample bandwidth for most interface purposes and by the time your inputs and outputs produce more data than it can handle you'd probably be looking at a PCIe card, a similar TB setup or aPCIe card in a TB adaptor capable of handling dozens of channels.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 00:03:25
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tlw
Firewire is on the way out I think. RME have recently discontinued my model of UFX (USB and firewire interface) in favour of a new version that at a glance seems pretty much the same thing only with a Thunderbolt socket instead of Firewire 400.
Which makes sense. Firewire has always been problematic on Windows PCs (the well known chipset and driver issues) so most would be using USB, and Apple want a silly amount of money for a Thunderbolt->firewire convertor cable. Though firewire over TB does work very well, which is useful as no Macbook has more than two USB sockets.
As for the original UFX, performance under USB on Windows and OS X is very similar, as is firewire on OS X. There's no real advantage in latency terms to using firewire if a USB socket is available and the USB bus isn't loaded with other things that shift a lot of data such as external drives.
There's no advantage to USB3 over USB2 either as far as audio interfaces are concerned. USB2 has ample bandwidth for most interface purposes and by the time your inputs and outputs produce more data than it can handle you'd probably be looking at a PCIe card, a similar TB setup or aPCIe card in a TB adaptor capable of handling dozens of channels.
Not much recent news about Thunderbolt making progress in the PC arena, except for a few high end products: Here's an older article discussing it's fate as USB3 is favored by OEM's for the mainstream due to cost: http://www.zdnet.com/arti...relevant-to-pc-oems/#!"For the average user USB, especially USB 3.0 – which currently has a max theoretical data transfer rate of 5Gbps, but this is going to be bumped up to 10Gbps – is more than adequate. What's more, USB 3.0 is backward-compatible with every other USB-compatible device made. Finally, USB hardware is significantly cheaper and more ubiquitous than Thunderbolt peripherals. Thunderbolt suffers from the same problem as faced by the FireWire interface, in that it's a premium product that offers performance that goes way beyond what most people want or need – or certainly more than they are willing to pay for. FireWire 400 was far superior to USB, but it was USB that became the mainstream standard, mostly because it was cheaper, in terms of both the interface itself and the devices. FireWire 800 was far superior to USB 2.0, but it was USB 2.0 that went mainstream, mostly down to cost factors. Thunderbolt is far superior to USB 3.0, but it will be USB 3.0 that goes mainstream, again, down mostly to cost. It's also interesting to note that Apple adopted FireWire, only recently dropping it from high-end systems such as the MacBook Pro in favour of Thunderbolt. Now that PC OEMs have the option to use USB 3.0, I don't see much of a future for Thunderbolt outside of specific professional solutions. " And then, from earlier this year: http://arstechnica.com/ga...-some-traction-in-pcs/
post edited by abacab - 2016/06/12 00:27:04
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 11:32:52
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/12 16:30:46
abacab
Danny Danzi
abacab
Is anybody seeing numbers like this using ASIO with USB2?
I have a 10 year old Firewire 410 that still works well on my newest desktop with an add-on firewire card. My old laptop had a firewire port, but my new laptop only has USB2 & USB3.
So if I was going to get a USB2 audio interface, is there any chance could I get the same buffer setting to work on the laptop?
I get those exact numbers with both my Fractal Audio Systems rack unit interface and my Midas M-32 console interface. I have no issues running down that low even with a decent amount of tracks and VST's. Both are USB.
-Danny
Wow, that's some serious hardware there! Good to know you can run that with USB2. I will now assume that it's not that USB that is the limiting factor, rather the quality of the drivers, and how they interact with the OS and hardware that determines the latency!
Thanks!
In my case, the USB stuff is working so well, it's actually scary. Just curious, but have you tried running a latency checking program? http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml Go there and download the tool. It's what the majority on this forum use to see if there are other issues. I have a friend that stays in the yellow and goes red quite a bit. He experiences clicks, pops and has other issues. The thing the tool doesn't tell you, is what may be causing issues. The forum latency gurus will help you with that after you find out how your system responds to the test. I've never had one of my PC's fail because I disable everything that should not be running. There is a site called blackviper.com (use at your own risk if you try it) that offers tweaks on every OS ever made. I've used his tweaks for optimizing my systems since Windows 95 with outstanding results. The only time I would say NOT to mess with these tweaks would be if you bought an actual audio computer from Jim Roseberry or someone that builds pro DAW's. They use their own tweaks for the parts they use and configure things to their specs. But any stock PC, I have always tweaked myself even if my tweaks are minimal. One of the things I have found using SONAR for 100 years is, it's a little more needy than some of the other DAWs I use. Like in some situations, if you have too many running processes or programs, or dumb things that auto-load at boot that you are not going to be using while you record or you might not use them ever......they can definitely wreak havoc. In other situations I've had great SONAR results with over 100 processes. It depends on the computer, motherboard, chipset in my personal experience. Quick example, I have NEVER had luck with AMD. I've used the best Pentium I could afford and always had great results. I also have 3 drives as to not tax my system too much. One drive for my os, programs and plugs, one strictly for audio and streaming and a drive for samples only. I've used that format for years without failure. The only issue I have had with my computers is lightning taking one out. I have all the computers I have ever owned but 1, and they all still run and have some version of sonar on them. RAM isn't even that important in my experience. I have 3 old machines running sonar from 512 ram to 4gig and they work great. Are they a little slow? Sure, but they work and never crap out. As a matter of fact, I'm using Asio4all on them and get down to the same numbers you mentioned in your post I originally quoted. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. They aren't as fast as my real recording machines with i7's in them, but in a pinch they work and can bail me out. The one with the 512 ram is sitting on a shelf, but it still works great. My point in all this is, once you get your machine set up right, you'll be amazed at what you can do even with slower computers. The drag of it all is, some of the issues we have, may affect SONAR. I'm not saying that to turn you away, I'm just saying in *some* cases, sonar was more picky than other daws. If you exhaust everything and still have issues, go download reaper and try their trial version just to see if you have the same issues. If you do, you know it's going to be with everything. If you don't, something in your system isn't playing nice with SONAR quite possibly, or you may need to change something. Whatever the case, the people on this forum will do whatever they can to help you as long as you listen to what they say. They really know what they are talking about. I'm a trial and error guy that doesn't know too much, but I've been really blessed with SONAR. Good luck! -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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fireberd
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 12:34:02
(permalink)
The Lantency check program you link is only valid for Win 7 or earlier OS'. It is not valid for Win 8/8.1/10. A better program, that tells you quite a bit more is the Resplendence Latency Mon program. Latency Mon is valid for all Win OS's including Win 10. http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 16:01:12
(permalink)
Danny Danzi
abacab
Danny Danzi
abacab
Is anybody seeing numbers like this using ASIO with USB2?
I have a 10 year old Firewire 410 that still works well on my newest desktop with an add-on firewire card. My old laptop had a firewire port, but my new laptop only has USB2 & USB3.
So if I was going to get a USB2 audio interface, is there any chance could I get the same buffer setting to work on the laptop?
I get those exact numbers with both my Fractal Audio Systems rack unit interface and my Midas M-32 console interface. I have no issues running down that low even with a decent amount of tracks and VST's. Both are USB.
-Danny
Wow, that's some serious hardware there! Good to know you can run that with USB2. I will now assume that it's not that USB that is the limiting factor, rather the quality of the drivers, and how they interact with the OS and hardware that determines the latency!
Thanks!
In my case, the USB stuff is working so well, it's actually scary. Just curious, but have you tried running a latency checking program?
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
Go there and download the tool. It's what the majority on this forum use to see if there are other issues. I have a friend that stays in the yellow and goes red quite a bit. He experiences clicks, pops and has other issues.
The thing the tool doesn't tell you, is what may be causing issues. The forum latency gurus will help you with that after you find out how your system responds to the test. I've never had one of my PC's fail because I disable everything that should not be running.
There is a site called blackviper.com (use at your own risk if you try it) that offers tweaks on every OS ever made. I've used his tweaks for optimizing my systems since Windows 95 with outstanding results. The only time I would say NOT to mess with these tweaks would be if you bought an actual audio computer from Jim Roseberry or someone that builds pro DAW's. They use their own tweaks for the parts they use and configure things to their specs. But any stock PC, I have always tweaked myself even if my tweaks are minimal.
One of the things I have found using SONAR for 100 years is, it's a little more needy than some of the other DAWs I use. Like in some situations, if you have too many running processes or programs, or dumb things that auto-load at boot that you are not going to be using while you record or you might not use them ever......they can definitely wreak havoc.
In other situations I've had great SONAR results with over 100 processes. It depends on the computer, motherboard, chipset in my personal experience.
Quick example, I have NEVER had luck with AMD. I've used the best Pentium I could afford and always had great results. I also have 3 drives as to not tax my system too much. One drive for my os, programs and plugs, one strictly for audio and streaming and a drive for samples only. I've used that format for years without failure. The only issue I have had with my computers is lightning taking one out. I have all the computers I have ever owned but 1, and they all still run and have some version of sonar on them.
RAM isn't even that important in my experience. I have 3 old machines running sonar from 512 ram to 4gig and they work great. Are they a little slow? Sure, but they work and never crap out. As a matter of fact, I'm using Asio4all on them and get down to the same numbers you mentioned in your post I originally quoted. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. They aren't as fast as my real recording machines with i7's in them, but in a pinch they work and can bail me out. The one with the 512 ram is sitting on a shelf, but it still works great.
My point in all this is, once you get your machine set up right, you'll be amazed at what you can do even with slower computers. The drag of it all is, some of the issues we have, may affect SONAR.
I'm not saying that to turn you away, I'm just saying in *some* cases, sonar was more picky than other daws. If you exhaust everything and still have issues, go download reaper and try their trial version just to see if you have the same issues. If you do, you know it's going to be with everything. If you don't, something in your system isn't playing nice with SONAR quite possibly, or you may need to change something.
Whatever the case, the people on this forum will do whatever they can to help you as long as you listen to what they say. They really know what they are talking about. I'm a trial and error guy that doesn't know too much, but I've been really blessed with SONAR. Good luck!
-Danny
Hey Danny, thanks for the link! I have Windows 7 on my main DAW so have been testing the Latency Checker. It has stayed in the green for for about an hour. Launched Sonar X3, and loaded a few virtual instruments with ProChannel and Breverb. Then launched Firefox and watched a Cake TV video on YouTube. Launched my email, typical routine use, etc. My Netgear USB Wifi NIC doesn't seem to cause any spikes, and my Intel integrated graphics doesn't seem to move the needle either. Cool! Current latency as I type this is as shown by Latency Checker is around 200, with absolute max at 483. So I'm feeling good :-) I'm with you on the Intel confidence factor. Never messed with AMD either. I'm only running a Core i3, which is actually 1/2 of a Core i7, but at 3.4GHz, it's got the clock speed and dual cores to run anything I have thrown at it without ever maxing out. The slowest component on my system was my boot drive, only SATA 3Gbs 7200 RPM, but I fixed that with a Samsung EVO SSD. Don't game on this PC, so the Intel HD graphics drives dual monitors just fine! When I build a system I install a clean Windows, then disable unnecessary services and scheduled tasks, with Sysinternals Autoruns (autostart program viewer). My PC boots up with about 57 processes running. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx
But with your studio needs I am sure that you would need to run something like the max Jim Roseberry Platinum DAW!!! Keep rockin!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 17:02:15
(permalink)
fireberd
The Lantency check program you link is only valid for Win 7 or earlier OS'. It is not valid for Win 8/8.1/10.
A better program, that tells you quite a bit more is the Resplendence Latency Mon program. Latency Mon is valid for all Win OS's including Win 10.
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
I'm not going to say that this isn't potentially a great program, but in testing on my Win 7 PC, it is caused my audio to breakup while it was running. Thanks for the link, anyway! Next chance I get, I will test it on my Win 8.1(x64) laptop! Maybe it's a hiccup with Win7 ...
post edited by abacab - 2016/06/12 20:37:46
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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steveo42
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/12 22:14:35
(permalink)
Here are my latency figures for the MOTU Ultralite AVB with the latest beta driver where they re-instated the ability to change the safety buffer, along with comments using both Reaper and Studio One V3. IMHO you are looking at MOTU, RME and Zoom. If you have a Mac or are comfortable with Thunderbolt on PC then add Focusrite Clarette to the list. I would not touch the Presonus Studio 192 with a barge pole. Latency is awful compared to the alternatives. Motu Ultralite AVB... Latest beta firmware and drivers. 44.1k Host Buffer Size Host Safety Offset RTL Reaper Comment 64 Samples 8 Samples 1.6ms / 1.6ms Not playable 64 Samples 12 Samples 1.7ms /1.7ms Not playable 64 Samples 16 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Not playable 64 Samples 24 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Playable 64 Samples 32 Samples 2.1ms / 2.1 ms Playable 64 Samples 48 Samples 2.5ms / 2.5 ms Playable 64 Samples 64 Samples 2.9ms / 2.9 ms Playable 64 Samples 128 Samples 4.3 ms / 4.3 ms Playable 64 Samples 256 Samples 7.2 ms / 7.2 ms Playable 128 Samples 48 Samples 3.9ms / 3,9 Playable but barely.. Very laggy. 256 48 6.8ms /6.8 Too much lag... By far...
post edited by steveo42 - 2016/06/13 08:29:33
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Mixing Latency With ASIO - Firewire vs USB2
2016/06/13 12:04:23
(permalink)
steveo42
Here are my latency figures for the MOTU Ultralite AVB with the latest beta driver where they re-instated the ability to change the safety buffer, along with comments using both Reaper and Studio One V3. IMHO you are looking at MOTU, RME and Zoom. If you have a Mac or are comfortable with Thunderbolt on PC then add Focusrite Clarette to the list.
I would not touch the Presonus Studio 192 with a barge pole. Latency is awful compared to the alternatives.
Motu Ultralite AVB... Latest beta firmware and drivers.
44.1k
Host Buffer Size Host Safety Offset RTL Reaper Comment
64 Samples 8 Samples 1.6ms / 1.6ms Not playable
64 Samples 12 Samples 1.7ms /1.7ms Not playable
64 Samples 16 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Not playable
64 Samples 24 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Playable
64 Samples 32 Samples 2.1ms / 2.1 ms Playable
64 Samples 48 Samples 2.5ms / 2.5 ms Playable
64 Samples 64 Samples 2.9ms / 2.9 ms Playable
64 Samples 128 Samples 4.3 ms / 4.3 ms Playable
64 Samples 256 Samples 7.2 ms / 7.2 ms Playable
128 Samples 48 Samples 3.9ms / 3,9 Playable but barely.. Very laggy.
256 48 6.8ms /6.8 Too much lag... By far...
MOTU seems to have a full line-up of audio interfaces to meet any need. Great latency numbers reported for them! Thunderbolt is not really something I'd consider, unless it goes mainstream. My current hardware cannot support it. It's good to have options. Maybe someday ...
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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