outland144k
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I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
Hello All: Last month (May 21st, to be exact), I played a cocktail hour with a keyboardist friend of mine. I played the straight cocktail hour, he did the same and the ceremony besides. Though there was no hassle at all at the gig and lots of compliments (including a note from the bride's mom, whom I know via other work connections), we have not been paid for the gig. This, BTW, was the first time in years that I was not paid for my services at the gig itself. Originally, I was told by the man who hired us (Randy) that the checks would go out early the following week. After many calls and texts, I finally got back one text last week (on June 9th) that indicated that Randy misunderstood Walter (the owner of the business), and the owner was late getting out the checks. Randy also claimed his phone was broken (despite the fact that I left messages on both his home and cell phone). There, of course, has still not been any sign of the checks and Randy is not answering or replying in any way to my calls/texts. Today, in addition to calling/texting Randy, I called Walter. While he was pleasant, he indicated that he had cut checks for us and given them to Randy last week, though he could not remember what day it was that this had occurred. I texted Randy again with this info, but there has no reply thus far. I know that, overall, I have been blessed in that no one else has attempted to cheat me of cash for a gig since about 1978. As such, however, I am perhaps a bit "out of the loop" regarding how to recoup my cash from these individuals. Off the top, I'm thinking small claims court. Any Ideas? Help with this situation would be appreciated....
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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ampfixer
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:00:30
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/06/17 21:45:05
You know the brides mom. There is no more powerful force on the planet.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:03:48
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So you'd get her involved? I've kind of been hesitant to mention it to her.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:06:21
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Small claims court may be your only option unless you have a cousin named Mario who might be able to persuade them that kneecap surgery is way more expensive and painful, than paying you. Of course then you'll probably owe Mario a substantial cut of the money. But at least you get paid. Yeah, we had a club do that to us. Fired us claiming they were going out of business. Paid us one night of a 3 night gig. We only played one night but the contract was for 3 nights. They hired another band for Friday and Saturday night and we found out. Took them to court and won. They came back with an offer to settle for 50% or they would appeal it. We took the 50% deal and went on with life.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:07:29
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So you'd get her involved? I've been kind of hesitant about that, you know.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:10:56
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Unfortunately, Mario's out of the country on, er, um, "business" for several years (and that only if he manages to behave well). His little brother may be available, however.
post edited by outland144k - 2016/06/17 20:39:38
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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bayoubill
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:12:08
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Stay on it and keep checking everyday. They know you are very late getting payment. Don't let it go!
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:14:50
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bayoubill Stay on it and keep checking everyday. They know you are very late getting payment. Don't let it go!
Yes, that's what I'm doing, but it doesn't take much to ignore calls and texts, eh?
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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slartabartfast
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 17:38:25
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/17 19:06:07
It sounds like you are getting the runaround, but you need to clarify if there were in fact checks written. Were there two checks written by Walter or one? Did Walter write the check in your name, in your fellow performer's name or one to each, or to Randy? If the check was written in your name, then Randy gains nothing by holding it, unless he is prepared to forge your endorsement. If it was written to Randy in the expectation that he would pay you, then Walter will be able to verify that it has been cashed, and provide you with a copy. What does it say in your written contract about who will pay you and when? Either Walter or Randy presumably have something to lose if you report them to the wedding party as deadbeats. My next communication would be a written letter telling whoever is responsible for payment that is what you plan to do in if payment is not forthcoming, including the facts you have and an itemized list of your charges cced to everyone involved. If that fails, send a bill payable by the bride or her mother and wait for her call. Then explain the situation to the ultimate purchaser and see if she will make this good or at least clarify her understanding of how you were to be paid. Small claims court is an option, but you need to know who is responsible to pay you before you can sue them. If you are a union member, then maybe your local can put some pressure on the venue owner. Unfortunately, there is no way to put a mechanic's lien on your performance.
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 18:48:18
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slartabartfast It sounds like you are getting the runaround, but you need to clarify if there were in fact checks written. Were there two checks written by Walter or one? Did Walter write the check in your name, in your fellow performer's name or one to each, or to Randy? If the check was written in your name, then Randy gains nothing by holding it, unless he is prepared to forge your endorsement. If it was written to Randy in the expectation that he would pay you, then Walter will be able to verify that it has been cashed, and provide you with a copy. What does it say in your written contract about who will pay you and when? Either Walter or Randy presumably have something to lose if you report them to the wedding party as deadbeats. My next communication would be a written letter telling whoever is responsible for payment that is what you plan to do in if payment is not forthcoming, including the facts you have and an itemized list of your charges cced to everyone involved. If that fails, send a bill payable by the bride or her mother and wait for her call. Then explain the situation to the ultimate purchaser and see if she will make this good or at least clarify her understanding of how you were to be paid. Small claims court is an option, but you need to know who is responsible to pay you before you can sue them. If you are a union member, then maybe your local can put some pressure on the venue owner. Unfortunately, there is no way to put a mechanic's lien on your performance.
Well, there was no contract for this gig as it came only three days prior to the date. There was an invoice sent after the gig. The invoice was sent to the business, cc'ed to Randy. I'm assuming that we will sue the business. If my understanding is correct (for NJ law; and I may be in error) suing the business guarantees that the business has to secure a lawyer for defense. I'm hoping that the costs involved will be prohibitive to Walter and/or Randy, that will be the end of it, and we'll be paid. And, yes, we each were to be cut a check individually, not collectively as in a "regular" band situation. Am I not correct to assume that the business is responsible for payment in this situation? We did work for them (it). You make many good suggestions as per the way to proceed. On Monday, I will contact the bride's mom and attempt to talk to her.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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slartabartfast
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 19:27:29
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/06/17 20:36:01
It is not at all clear that the "business" is obligated to pay you, although the fact that you say Walter claimed to have sent you a check strongly supports that interpretation. What was Randy's role in this situation? Is he your agent? Walter's agent? An employee of Walter's business? How did he get the authority to hire you? On whose behalf was he acting when he hired you? Why are you dealing with Randy if it is Walter who owes you money? If Walter wrote a check to you personally, then he can stop payment on his check if it is "lost in the mail" and write a new one, or present you with a copy of his cancelled check to prove it was cashed. I see no reason to believe that either you or the defendant in your small claims case will be required to hire an attorney. It is unlikely that you would have agreed to work for nothing, but establishing the exact amount that you were promised in court will require you to present witness testimony (in the absence of a written contract) to establish the amount. Will Randy so testify? Will Walter? Will your colleague? If Walter does not show in court you win--then you still have to collect. It only takes thirty seconds to write a binding contract. I,xxxx agree to perform at yyyy location on zzzz date for aaaa dollars to be paid by cccc at the time of or the performance or within ddd days following the performance. Both parties sign. Do it on a napkin--it is still better than a lying contest in court. Or insist on a check before you start to play. If the payer says he has to wait to be paid by the wedding planner, agree to hold his check until xxx days later. Wait as agreed then deposit his check. His bounced check is all the proof you need that you were not timely paid. Nothing you say or hear on the telephone with anyone is proof in court. Unless the people you talk to will show up in court on the day of your trial and tell the same story, you have nothing except information. Use the mail-registered return receipt requested. Join the f////king musicians union.
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/17 20:17:31
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slartabartfast It is not at all clear that the "business" is obligated to pay you, although the fact that you say Walter claimed to have sent you a check strongly supports that interpretation. What was Randy's role in this situation? Is he your agent? Walter's agent? An employee of Walter's business? How did he get the authority to hire you? On whose behalf was he acting when he hired you? Why are you dealing with Randy if it is Walter who owes you money? If Walter wrote a check to you personally, then he can stop payment on his check if it is "lost in the mail" and write a new one, or present you with a copy of his cancelled check to prove it was cashed. I see no reason to believe that either you or the defendant in your small claims case will be required to hire an attorney. It is unlikely that you would have agreed to work for nothing, but establishing the exact amount that you were promised in court will require you to present witness testimony (in the absence of a written contract) to establish the amount. Will Randy so testify? Will Walter? Will your colleague? If Walter does not show in court you win--then you still have to collect. It only takes thirty seconds to write a binding contract. I,xxxx agree to perform at yyyy location on zzzz date for aaaa dollars to be paid by cccc at the time of or the performance or within ddd days following the performance. Both parties sign. Do it on a napkin--it is still better than a lying contest in court. Or insist on a check before you start to play. If the payer says he has to wait to be paid by the wedding planner, agree to hold his check until xxx days later. Wait as agreed then deposit his check. His bounced check is all the proof you need that you were not timely paid. Nothing you say or hear on the telephone with anyone is proof in court. Unless the people you talk to will show up in court on the day of your trial and tell the same story, you have nothing except information. Use the mail-registered return receipt requested.
Again, good remarks. Thanks. A couple of comments: the observation about suing the business in the hopes that the (perhaps erroneously understood) "requisite lawyer" with his fees would prove prohibitive is from an old situation I had with a home heating oil company from years ago. I was lead to believe that this was a NJ distinctive, but I will check it out obviously before I intend to act on it. There is one detail that I left out. Obviously, in retrospect, it has not worked out, but it should be noted that Randy was a person with whom I had considered myself to be on friendly terms (I had worked with him at school, always very cordially). This is also a part of why there was not a contract. I thought I could trust him. It appears that I may have been in error. Then again, he may be caught in the middle and embarrassed about it. Not entirely likely at this juncture, but it is possible. I was dealing solely with Randy (until today) because he was the point of contact in the organization in charge of entertainment. The bride's mom may show up in court with us. She may not know how much Randy agreed to pay us, but she certainly knows how much she paid him for us. The Musician's Union to which I belonged wasn't worth much, so I let my membership lapse. I honestly do not think the MU would do anything about this situation. Again, thanks for your helpful comments.
post edited by outland144k - 2016/06/17 20:48:03
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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outland144k
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Re: I may be getting ripped off for a gig I did last month. Any suggestions?
2016/06/22 17:45:32
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Many thanks to all who commented on this thread. Talking to the bride's mom seems to have done the trick. When I mentioned to Walter that I had talked to the bride's mom, he went ballistic and became abusive. He also continued a few lies (that he had given checks to Randy, that he was going to call his lawyer, etc.). I asked him whom it was that he'd prefer me to sue in small claims court. In the end, however, my check came in the mail today (interestingly without any return address). The check was dated 6-16-16 (after Walter's claim to have given the check to Randy the week before) and it was postmarked 6-20-16 PM (the afternoon of the day I spoke to the bride's mom and alerted him of the same). The bride's mom, BTW, did not seem all that surprised about Walter's comportment. She had noted his arrogance and had warned him to get out of her daughter's face during the day of the wedding. "Pleased" is not a word that I would use to describe her level of satisfaction with Walter's job performance. What I described to her was just so much more "grist for the mill", so to speak. Again, thanks to all here. Now I have to wait for the check to clear, but I doubt that there will be any issues.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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