azslow3
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Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
My daughter has Windows based low end tablet for school works, and since I am (successfully) used Sonar on old Atom based Nettop and this tablet is faster in terms of gaming performance, I decide to give it a try with Sonar. Here is the first attempt story, before I forget the details. The hardware: Intel Atom X5-Z8300, 2GB RAM, 32 GM eMMC storage (but Sonar is installed on SD card), 10'' display 1280x800 Window 10 32bit Price point: ~ 200 EUR. Installation: * I have tried CCC first. No Joy. It simply does not fit to the screen, the configuration button is not visible. But I have logged into my account there and I kept it installed (which was a good idea, see later). * I have started Sonar installer from USB flash stick, custom installation to put everything on Samsung SD card (the card itself is fast, but the tablet is unable to use its full speed, so it is 3-5 times slower than eMMC) * the installation took a bit longer than on usual PC, but that is ok. First attempts to run Sonar: Sonar was starting fine. After adjusting panels (Sonar defaults are definitively for bigger screen), everything looks reasonable. There was no question about registration, "About" shows that I am registered. I guess that is the consequence of having CCC installed (nice!). But any attempt to produce a sound (add audio track, insert TTS-1) and Sonar freeze. Even in case I save the project before doing anything, the project was corrupted after freeze. Audio mode settings: I have found that the default setting is MME, which was coursing the freeze. Changed to WDM and it does not freeze any more. But whatever I have tried, I have not managed to get any sound in WDM mode. I have installed ASIO4ALL and switched to ASIO mode. And the sound is finally there! I have adjusted the buffer to 384 and I could play TTS-1 piano with on-screen keyboard without glitches  So, ASIO4ALL and Sonar in ASIO mode is the only combination which works for me. I have connected my LivePlay GTX. 2 tracks recorded plus TTS-1 piano track. The buffer had to be adjusted. With the buffer 512 I could record without apparent drops. CPU load was not in the upper part, but I guess SD card+WiFi are not perfect conditions for low latency recording. Also I was unable to go lower then 300+ with LivePlay connected to my primary computer. It will be interesting to test what is possible with a "real" audio interface. Touch screen usability: I have not found how to select clip and some other operations, which are normally done with left mouse clips, are for some reason was not working for me. Also all controls are so small that using them is almost impossible. Switching panel or resizing anything is a nightmare. My current conclusion: Sonar is not prepared to be used with small touch screen. But in general: it is possible to use the latest Sonar to do recording on lowest end hardware. I do not think that is an alternative to notebook / multi-tracker recording, primary because of limited touch functionality. But it looks promising. Please note that the whole post is about 1 hour test.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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trtzbass
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 08:07:24
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/09/06 11:55:20
Jordan Brown - he tried to play bass www.jordanbrown.co.uk twitter.com/trtzbass trgmachine.bandcamp.com
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Grem
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 08:31:39
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Good review. I have a AMD machine with Realtek sound and I can do some things that I didn't think would be possible with low end drivers.
Grem Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
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AntManB
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 08:48:02
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/09/06 11:55:34
Thanks for this. I have a tablet with very similar (if not identical) specs. and it had crossed my mind to give this a try but I decided it probably wasn't worth the trouble because I thought it would only have a slim chance of working. Based on your experience I'm definitely going to give it a shot. AMB
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rebel007
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 09:06:29
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Wow, and here I was thinking I was doing well getting Sonar to work on my older i5 750.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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pwalpwal
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 11:43:10
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/09/06 11:55:46
Nice to hear an asio4all success story! :-)
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azslow3
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/07/01 14:17:26
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☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/09/06 11:55:51
pwalpwal Nice to hear an asio4all success story! :-)
I always had asio4all success stories. Just sometimes it is required to read (understand and apply) its documentation. That part is usually responsible for "unsuccess stories"...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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jimfogle
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/06 11:54:43
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Interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. I would have thought the more simple the computer, the easier it would be to install and use Sonar. Your experience indicates many of the Sonar defaults do not anticipate simple computer use. Perhaps Cakewalk can change some defaults to make installation on small computers easier.
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/06 12:44:56
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I missed this one the first time around. The specs in the OP match a 2-in-1 convertible I recently purchased. If you're looking for a mobile alternative, check out Stagelight. It runs on Windows and Android. Stagelight 3 is in the works with an iOS version to be released. Thanks for sharing, az.
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AntManB
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/11 14:05:34
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Finally got round to trying this on my Windows table (a Linx 1010). I wasn't that interested in using the onboard sound so I hooked it up to my Focusrite 6i6 and was pleasantly surprised at how well it works. I thought memory might be an issue as it only has 2Gb but it seems to cope well enough to do some basic tracking. The main reason I wanted to try it is because my main PC is pretty noisy so I should be able to use this when recording vocals and acoustic guitar (most other things I record by DI or generate in-the-box). Great to have another option - thanks for azslow3 for the idea. AMB
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TranceCanada
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/11 14:48:47
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I can't say I've been as successful with my Surface Pro 3, has an i5-4300, 4 gb ram, 64 bit, with realtek audio. I have Asio4all setup and Splat is sluggish to start playback and I never get sound uness I'm using headphones. I've noticed when I start Sonar up through the theme editor it runs much smoother but still no audio unless I'm using my headphones.
Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 (Lifetime), Producer X3e, Producer X2 Soft Synths: Z3TA+2, Rapture Pro, Xpand2, Serum System 1: HP Envy23, Win10 x64, Core i7-3770 3.1Ghz, 8GB Ram System 2: Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Win10 x64, Core i5-4300U 1.9Ghz/2.5Ghz, 4GB Ram Audio: M-Audio M-Box Mini 2 Controllers: Edirol PCR-M80
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/11 15:26:48
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TranceCanada I can't say I've been as successful with my Surface Pro 3, has an i5-4300, 4 gb ram, 64 bit, with realtek audio. I have Asio4all setup and Splat is sluggish to start playback and I never get sound uness I'm using headphones. I've noticed when I start Sonar up through the theme editor it runs much smoother but still no audio unless I'm using my headphones.
That should work better. I tossed Platinum x64 onto my cheap laptop to have something to play my VST softsynths with when traveling. It works surprisingly well with Realtek audio and ASIO4ALL. The built in speakers sound like crap (as always), but sound is good through my Sennheiser HD280's. My laptop (Acer Aspire E15) specs are similar to yours. i5-4210U 1.7Ghz (turbo to 2.5Ghz), 4GB DDR3, running Windows 10 Home x64 on a 5400RPM HDD. Did you try to optimize for audio? Laptops come with all kinds of services, process, and scheduled tasks that launch at boot time. Take a look at Autoruns for Windows (free) at https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902 to get a handle on what is running that may be causing your issues.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/11 18:25:54
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TranceCanada I can't say I've been as successful with my Surface Pro 3, has an i5-4300, 4 gb ram, 64 bit, with realtek audio. I have Asio4all setup and Splat is sluggish to start playback and I never get sound uness I'm using headphones. I've noticed when I start Sonar up through the theme editor it runs much smoother but still no audio unless I'm using my headphones.
Here is a good resource for you: http://surfaceproaudio.com/tweaking-windows-10-on-the-surface-pro-4-for-music-production The whole blog is good. The guy that runs it ( Robin Vincent) is a professional writer with a long history in computer based music production.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/11 21:30:40
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telecharge
TranceCanada I can't say I've been as successful with my Surface Pro 3, has an i5-4300, 4 gb ram, 64 bit, with realtek audio. I have Asio4all setup and Splat is sluggish to start playback and I never get sound uness I'm using headphones. I've noticed when I start Sonar up through the theme editor it runs much smoother but still no audio unless I'm using my headphones.
Here is a good resource for you: http://surfaceproaudio.com/tweaking-windows-10-on-the-surface-pro-4-for-music-production The whole blog is good. The guy that runs it (Robin Vincent) is a professional writer with a long history in computer based music production.
Agree! I have viewed a few other videos by this guy. He's good. That's a very informative & concise overview of the basics to optimize any Windows PC for audio. Towards the end he covers the Windows Task Manager startup tab. I do like the new task manager in Windows 8.1/10, but IMHO it doesn't go deep enough on the start up programs and processes. If you have already done all of these steps and still have issues, you really should look into Microsoft Technet Sysinternals Autoruns utility, to clean up the unnecessary background stuff.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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TranceCanada
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/12 14:11:36
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abacab
telecharge
TranceCanada I can't say I've been as successful with my Surface Pro 3, has an i5-4300, 4 gb ram, 64 bit, with realtek audio. I have Asio4all setup and Splat is sluggish to start playback and I never get sound uness I'm using headphones. I've noticed when I start Sonar up through the theme editor it runs much smoother but still no audio unless I'm using my headphones.
Here is a good resource for you: http://surfaceproaudio.com/tweaking-windows-10-on-the-surface-pro-4-for-music-production The whole blog is good. The guy that runs it (Robin Vincent) is a professional writer with a long history in computer based music production.
Agree! I have viewed a few other videos by this guy. He's good. That's a very informative & concise overview of the basics to optimize any Windows PC for audio. Towards the end he covers the Windows Task Manager startup tab. I do like the new task manager in Windows 8.1/10, but IMHO it doesn't go deep enough on the start up programs and processes. If you have already done all of these steps and still have issues, you really should look into Microsoft Technet Sysinternals Autoruns utility, to clean up the unnecessary background stuff.
telecharge: The video was pretty interesting, but It didn't change anything. abacab: I got the Technet Sysinternals Autoruns utility, but holy crap I have no idea what I'm looking for in there Also the funny thing is I can get FL Studio to work no problem, but I'd rather be using Sonar
post edited by TranceCanada - 2016/09/12 14:34:15
Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 (Lifetime), Producer X3e, Producer X2 Soft Synths: Z3TA+2, Rapture Pro, Xpand2, Serum System 1: HP Envy23, Win10 x64, Core i7-3770 3.1Ghz, 8GB Ram System 2: Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Win10 x64, Core i5-4300U 1.9Ghz/2.5Ghz, 4GB Ram Audio: M-Audio M-Box Mini 2 Controllers: Edirol PCR-M80
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/12 14:30:43
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TranceCanada telecharge: The video was pretty interesting, but It didn't change anything. abacab: I got the Technet Sysinternals Autoruns utility, but holy crap I have no idea what I'm looking for in there Also the funny thing is I can get FL Studio to work no problem, but I'd rather be using Sonar
Like he said in the beginning of the video, it's just the basics. There are also other tips, tricks, and tutorials on the blog. Before you go mucking about with Sysinternals, I suggest trying a clean boot to start with and then see if/how Sonar runs. If you want to get into Sysinternals, here is a guide. Cakewalk also has this Windows Optimization Guide.
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TranceCanada
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/12 14:35:18
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telecharge
TranceCanada telecharge: The video was pretty interesting, but It didn't change anything. abacab: I got the Technet Sysinternals Autoruns utility, but holy crap I have no idea what I'm looking for in there Also the funny thing is I can get FL Studio to work no problem, but I'd rather be using Sonar
Like he said in the beginning of the video, it's just the basics. There are also other tips, tricks, and tutorials on the blog. Before you go mucking about with Sysinternals, I suggest trying a clean boot to start with and then see if/how Sonar runs. If you want to get into Sysinternals, here is a guide. Cakewalk also has this Windows Optimization Guide.
Awesome I'll check those out. I still find it funny how the only time I do get it work though is when I open it through the Theme Editor and have headphones plugged in, without openning through the Theme Editor it doesn't even try to work
Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 (Lifetime), Producer X3e, Producer X2 Soft Synths: Z3TA+2, Rapture Pro, Xpand2, Serum System 1: HP Envy23, Win10 x64, Core i7-3770 3.1Ghz, 8GB Ram System 2: Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Win10 x64, Core i5-4300U 1.9Ghz/2.5Ghz, 4GB Ram Audio: M-Audio M-Box Mini 2 Controllers: Edirol PCR-M80
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abacab
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/12 16:39:42
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TranceCanada Awesome I'll check those out. I still find it funny how the only time I do get it work though is when I open it through the Theme Editor and have headphones plugged in, without openning through the Theme Editor it doesn't even try to work
Your issue with launching Sonar, and it's sluggish performance could be a separate issue from the headphones problem. Referring to your last comment about the headphones, that does sound strange. Actually it could be just a speaker mis-configuration. When I plug my headphones into my laptop, the Realtek HD Audio Manager pops up a dialogue to confirm what I just inserted. I get sound either way. You may want to look at Speaker Properties (right-click on taskbar speaker icon, select Playback devices), and ensure you have selected "Use this device (enabled)". I'm running ASIO4ALL on my laptop too. Do you now have, or have you ever installed any other audio devices besides the onboard Realtek audio and/or ASIO4ALL, that may have installed another driver? Regarding performance troubleshooting, telecharge provided a link to the clean boot method. That is good. Because it seems that this discussion is assuming that you may have a software conflict somewhere. A clean boot would be a good thing to try next. If the Autoruns appears overwhelming to you, and you are not comfortable mucking around in Windows, maybe it would be best to find a friend or computer guy to take a look for you. The direct link to the how-to-geek page for Autoruns begins here: http://www.howtogeek.com/...internals-pro/lesson6/ Here's the quick TL/DR for Autoruns: Autoruns is really is just an advanced version of msconfig "System Configuration" shown in the clean boot tutorial. I find that Autoruns allows me to go beyond basics with drivers and such. The app opens up with the "Everything" tab showing. That is mind blowing, so you can skip that tab. The only tabs in Autoruns to be currently concerned with are "Logon" (like Startup from Task Manager), "Scheduled Tasks", "Services", and sometimes "Drivers", as these are the main items that can load at startup. If there is a conflict and you determine that it isn't a startup program, it's probably time to be looking somewhere in the "Scheduled tasks", "Services", or "Drivers" area. You can browse each of these categories. Every line item also displays the description and publisher name. As with the safe boot method, do not turn anything from Microsoft off. Also use care with anything that looks like it might relate to your on-board PC hardware, or related to any Intel hardware support. For "Logon" you can start by turning off startup apps not related to your DAW. These were covered in the basics video and the Safe Boot tutorial, but also appear here. If you are not sure what an item does, you can Google it. Simply uncheck an item and you are set. Autoruns will not delete that entry, so you can return and re-enable anything. Reboot to update Windows with the changes you have selected. If that doesn't help, then you can move on to "Scheduled Tasks". I've never noticed anything here that can't be temporarily disabled, but to be safe, leave Microsoft alone. Next up is the "Services" and "Drivers" tabs. I have learned that many hardware devices install both a service and a driver. By disabling the service, the driver is still free to load at boot. So if a driver is causing a conflict, you have two choices. You can uninstall the troublesome device driver. Or just uncheck it in autoruns and reboot. That will prevent it from loading into memory. Some devices also install a taskbar icon or control panel type app that launches with the startup apps. If you only turn that startup app off, the related services and drivers may still be loading at boot. Remember you can always Google anything you see if you have questions. Best of luck!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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TranceCanada
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/13 11:10:50
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Thanks I appreciate it, I have managed to get it to open nicely and smoothly now no matter how I open it and also get volume through headphones all the time too, still no speakers but I'm ok with that I really want it running on my surface to get ideas down quick while I'm away from my desktop
Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 (Lifetime), Producer X3e, Producer X2 Soft Synths: Z3TA+2, Rapture Pro, Xpand2, Serum System 1: HP Envy23, Win10 x64, Core i7-3770 3.1Ghz, 8GB Ram System 2: Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Win10 x64, Core i5-4300U 1.9Ghz/2.5Ghz, 4GB Ram Audio: M-Audio M-Box Mini 2 Controllers: Edirol PCR-M80
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telecharge
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/13 11:18:40
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TranceCanada I have managed to get it to open nicely and smoothly now no matter how I open it
Would you be kind enough to let us know what got it working for you?
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TranceCanada
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Re: Sonar Platinum on lowest end hardware, the first expierence
2016/09/13 11:32:31
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telecharge
TranceCanada I have managed to get it to open nicely and smoothly now no matter how I open it
Would you be kind enough to let us know what got it working for you?
Of course, sorry. Honestly I'm not sure exactly what got it running, I did all the tweaks in the video you posted and it didn't do anything. So then I tried running it through some compatibility modes and none of them changed it so I turned the compatibility settings back off and restarted my computer and when I went to try it again all of a sudden it was running smoothly. I had restarted it a few times before messing with the compatibility settings so especially since I put everything back to normal I'm not exactly sure what did it.
Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 (Lifetime), Producer X3e, Producer X2 Soft Synths: Z3TA+2, Rapture Pro, Xpand2, Serum System 1: HP Envy23, Win10 x64, Core i7-3770 3.1Ghz, 8GB Ram System 2: Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Win10 x64, Core i5-4300U 1.9Ghz/2.5Ghz, 4GB Ram Audio: M-Audio M-Box Mini 2 Controllers: Edirol PCR-M80
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