sharke
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Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
I have a book of early guitar music that is "collected, transcribed and annotated" by a guy called Alexander Bellow. Some of the tunes are from the 12th century and very pretty. Anyway on a whim I started arranging some of them in Sonar in an electronica style with synths and sliced up beats etc and they're turning out quite good. Would there be any copyright issues involved with me putting them out there? I'm not sure how that works - I mean clearly any copyright on a 12th century piece of music has expired by now (by my guesstimate) but given that I don't have access to whatever transcriptions this Bellow fellow worked from, I don't know how much of the arrangements are his artistic license (I'm guessing some of those early transcriptions might not be exactly "clear") and how much is strictly accurate. So how to proceed from here? Would you just think screw it and ignore any issues, or would it be a good idea to get in touch with the publisher? The book itself was published in 1965. Or would simply giving a nod to this Bellow dude suffice?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 10:59:16
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/06/26 11:28:33
I shouldn't worry, Jimmy Page has probably already stolen the good bits anyway
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 11:01:01
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/06/26 11:37:18
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robbyk
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 14:05:08
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I can't say I have an answer for you but... I am just now spending a fair amount (2-3 weeks) of time getting all my copyrights, publishing, ISRC codes, Soundexchange, etc all up to date and absolutely correct just "because". I figure, might as well do it right now so if anything good comes out of it I'm good to go rather than playing the "I shoulda" game. It's a fair amount of work now because I let everything lapse since, like 1985 :) But not so much once you are up to date. As musicians and creative artists, we don't get our fair share very often, so in the event that I do, I don't want to have to tall my wife "d'oh!" What you are doing sounds really neat so I would say, check into it and contact Alexander, then you're good to go.
"I'm just workin' on a good life, the way it is." Best, Robby K PC Specs: Dell XPS Tower, Intel Core i5 7400 CPU 3 GHz @, 8 GB RAMHardware: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Line 6 TonePort UX1, ART Tube MP, JBL LSR2325P 5" Bi-Amped MonitorsSoftware: Windows 10 Home, Sonar 8.5.3 Producer, Sonar Producer X1, Sonar Producer X2 expanded, Sonar Producer X3, Ableton Live 8.3.4, Ozone, Alloy, Toontrack, Podfarm, IK Multimedia, Garritan, Melodyne, Antares, Bias, Rob Papen, OhmForce, Don't Crack... Music Studio
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craigb
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 14:09:57
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Provided Alexander is still alive!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 15:11:01
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That is the problem with folk song collections in general, and song books derived from other books or manuscripts. A work that is in the public domain can be copied (or performed) freely without any kind of acknowledgement. You can make your own arrangement of a public domain work, and you will then own the new copyright on your own arrangement, but not on the portions that are substantially similar to the original. So the melody of Greensleeves can be arranged any way you want, but no one can copyright the melody. If someone uses your new arrangement, however they are infringing your new copyright. That is the reason Project Gutenberg et al will only accept submissions that can show they have been located and correctly copied or transcribed from an original published version old enough for the copyright to have been expired given all available extensions (whether actually applied for or not). This can get particularly crazy when you have an "author" who acknowledges that he did not author the work, who records someone else performing it and then claims the copyright of the composition when he records or transcribes it. Neither of those actions is supposed to result in a copyright to the underlying composition as opposed to the sound recording itself. It is a "slavish copy" in the language of the case law, and lacks sufficient originality to qualify for protection. In addition the right to a copyright should belong only to the actual creator of the work, unless it is a work for hire in which case it belongs to his employer, which principle should bar a collector from being able to register copyright to a composition he did not compose. Copyright was never intended to be a finders keepers system, but the law absolutely hates the idea that some particular individual does not own every identifiable thing, and you are taking your chances in that system. https://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/36_FSupp2d_191.htmhttps://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120201/00472317614/lomax-jukebox-going-digital-is-great-news-lets-not-forget-that-he-claimed-copyright-cultural-works-that-werent-his.shtmlhttp://www.peterirvinelaw.com/pdf/Folk_Music_Copyright_PD.pdf In your case you are going to be depending on the author's apparent statement that does not include a specific guarantee that he did not author any particular part of the work upon which you are basing your derivative work. A scholarly book should include references to the original sources, and you would be safe if you could find a copy of the original source or find the same work in an older compilation.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/06/26 15:50:04
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slartabartfast
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 15:29:21
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craigb Provided Alexander is still alive! 
The death of the author does not guarantee that his copyright has lapsed, and in any event it is probably owned and defended by his publisher, or the publisher's heirs or assigns, who may or may not have made required renewals. It can be quite difficult to determine if a particular work has entered the public domain. http://www.public.asu.edu/~dkarjala/publicdomain/SearchC-R.html Acknowledging the original author (dead or alive) is irrelevant to copyright infringement. It is neither required (unless such acknowledgement is part of a license to use an active copyright) nor sufficient to defend against infringement. Acknowledging the author is required as a defense against charges of plagiarism, but that is an issue of academic ethics and not related to copyright law.
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sharke
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 17:51:13
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Actually upon reading the blurb in the book more closely it would appear that he only had the "fragmentary melodic lines" and arranged them to the best of his knowledge of the time, style and character of the Provençal school. So what that means is that all of the pretty sounding parallel fourths, fifths and octaves the melody are harmonized with are his stab at estimating how the melodies would have been harmonized at the time, and thus his own work. So I guess I would have to get some kind of permission unless I reharmonized them myself.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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craigb
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Re: Copyright issues with using someone else's arrangement of old tunes
2016/06/26 23:17:17
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slartabartfast
craigb Provided Alexander is still alive! 
The death of the author does not guarantee that his copyright has lapsed, and in any event it is probably owned and defended by his publisher, or the publisher's heirs or assigns, who may or may not have made required renewals. It can be quite difficult to determine if a particular work has entered the public domain. http://www.public.asu.edu/~dkarjala/publicdomain/SearchC-R.html Acknowledging the original author (dead or alive) is irrelevant to copyright infringement. It is neither required (unless such acknowledgement is part of a license to use an active copyright) nor sufficient to defend against infringement. Acknowledging the author is required as a defense against charges of plagiarism, but that is an issue of academic ethics and not related to copyright law.
True, but I was referring to Robby's comment about contacting Alexander, which is lot easier (and doesn't require a Medium) if they are still alive.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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