MIDI CC to Voltage Converter.

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WallyG
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2016/07/05 20:57:39 (permalink)

MIDI CC to Voltage Converter.

Anybody every use or could recommend a single channel MIDI Constant Controller to voltage converter. It needs to function like a volume control pedal plugged into the Synth, but controlled by a CC. The application is my Yamaha Montage that has a "SUPER DUPER KNOB" that varies multiple parameters in multiple parts. You can plug a FC-7 pedal into the synth and control the position of the Knob.
 
As far as MIDI control, presently the Knob can only be conrolled by Sysex data, so I would like to be able to control it from CC data, so I can optimize the position/curve in the PRV. Alternatively I could play back the MIDI, record the Audio from the synth and move the Knob as desired, but I would like to have program control over it.
 
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Walt

Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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    SuperG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/05 21:35:43 (permalink)
    Hi Wally, me again
     
    The Montage really interests me, and so I'm looking into it from a midi programmer's perspective. It's an interesting problem, the lack of a CC for for the SuperKnob. 
     
    If I'm guessing right, the Super Knob controls the eight assignable knobs in some way. It looks like the value of those can be midi transmitted; in that respect it looks like a SuperKnob performance can be properly recorded, in a round-a-bout way. Still, I'd think there'd be a need to have a sysx set dump before playing it back to the Montage ensure everything is assigned the way you originally had it.
     
    -Gene-

    laudem Deo
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    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/06 12:37:20 (permalink)
    Not particularly cheap, but various standalone Midi->CV converters for pre-midi analog or modern modular synths can do this:
     
    http://www.kentonuk.com/products/select/m-cvsel.shtml
     
    http://www.doepfer.de/Dark_Link_e.htm
     
     
    From a computer there are also SW solutions, but they require a DC coupled audio interface:
     
    http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html
     

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/06 13:22:28 (permalink)
    SuperG
    Hi Wally, me again
     
    The Montage really interests me, and so I'm looking into it from a midi programmer's perspective. It's an interesting problem, the lack of a CC for for the SuperKnob. 

     
    Hi Gene!
    This is just my guess about Yamaha's marketing strategy. With so many softsynths out there, I imagine Roland and other hardware synth manufacturers are taking this as serious competition. I can get more realistic sounds from Kontakt, Orange Tree, etc. then I can from my $4600 (then) Roland Jupiter 80. 
     
    I believe that they wanted to distance themselves from an external computer, i.e. DAW, even though they own Cubase, so they are touting this as a standalone “Play it live” synth. Even on the Yamaha Montage Forum, the forum host from Yamaha doesn’t like it if you talk about DAW control or MIDI. “Hey you have to get your creative juices flowing and make this thing talk and not leave the sound to a mixing engineer”. It would have been a simple thing to control the Super Duper Knob with CC data since it can be controlled with a foot pedal. I believe they left this feature out on purpose so you can only easily use it "live".
     
    Here’s a sample of using your creative juices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSg6xLvdBIY Play between 1:33 and 2:24. Call me old fashion, but that’s just not my style…
    Fortunately it does have some great sounds and maybe I’ll get in and modify/add some of my own. (I haven’t set up a custom sound since the 70s with my ARP Odyssey. Didn’t have a choice. )
     
     
    SuperG
    If I'm guessing right, the Super Knob controls the eight assignable knobs in some way. It looks like the value of those can be midi transmitted; in that respect it looks like a SuperKnob performance can be properly recorded, in a round-a-bout way. Still, I'd think there'd be a need to have a sysx set dump before playing it back to the Montage ensure everything is assigned the way you originally had it.
     
    -Gene-




    Actually 72 assignable knobs. There are 8 parts under keyboard control that can each have 8 assignable knobs, and 8 more that are common for all parts. If you like setting up your own custom sounds, this is the machine.
     
    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #4
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/06 14:52:06 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    Not particularly cheap, but various standalone Midi->CV converters for pre-midi analog or modern modular synths can do this:
     
    http://www.kentonuk.com/products/select/m-cvsel.shtml
     
    http://www.doepfer.de/Dark_Link_e.htm
     
     
    From a computer there are also SW solutions, but they require a DC coupled audio interface:
     
    http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html
     


    Thanks! That doepfer unit looks interesting. I'll do some further research.
     
    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #5
    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/06 16:10:37 (permalink)
    Now that I think about it - you may need a special cable with one of those and ideally you would want to measure what voltage the Yamaha is expecting.
     
    Typically CV pedal jacks are TRS with the sleeve being ground and the unit (the Yamaha in this case) sends out a voltage on one (the ring? - I think that's right but I can't remember - I can check if you want) and returns what's left of that voltage to the other (tip?) depending on the pedal position.
     
    CV converters like the one's I linked just send out a voltage. You would want to make sure the voltage sent is appropriate for your Yamaha to be safe. The 0-5V CV is probably fine, but I think some manufacturers use 0-3V. And you don't want to send the -2.5 to +2.5 pitch bend CV or the 1V/Oct pitch CV. It's easy to check what the Yamaha sends out if you have a voltmeter. 
     
    And the cable would be a 1/8" TS from the midi->CV with the output CV and ground wired to a 1/4" TRS to the Yamaha with the return voltage connected along with ground and the voltage sent out by the Yamaha taped off.
     
    It's not a big deal at all and completely safe if you know - or know someone - with basic electronics knowledge.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/06 20:48:13 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    Now that I think about it - you may need a special cable with one of those and ideally you would want to measure what voltage the Yamaha is expecting...

    That what I meant about doing some further research. I need to determine if the converter is compatible with the Montage. Right now my wife and I are flying to MA to see our 1 month old set of twin Great-Grandaugthers! I will have to put the Converter on the back burner.

    drewfx1
    ....It's not a big deal at all and completely safe if you know - or know someone - with some basic electronics knowledge.


    I'm very lucky since I know someone very close to me with some basic electronics knowledge.
    Me! I earned a living as an Analog Integrated Circuit Design Engineer! I have a full complement of electronic test equipment (i.e LeCroy 4 channel Color oscilloscope, etc.) in my lab so I'm covered.

    The pedal used with the Montage is a standard Yamaha pedal that is nothing more that a potentiometer controlled by the movement of the pedal. It's output is a ratiometrically derived voltage as a function of the pedal position.

    I appreciate your help in locating a possible candidate for my application. I also found a kit available from PAIA, but I called their sales and customer support numbers since I had some questions and nobody answered the phones.

    Thanks again!

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #7
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/08 20:55:18 (permalink)
    Would a midi expression pedal be able to do what you seek?  I have a Behringer FCB1010 midi foot board, and it has 2 midi expression pedals that can each be connected to whatever continuous controller event you wish.
     
    Just a thought.
     
    Oh, by the way, my son just literally last night bought one of these same keyboards, and WOW it sounds great! Maybe he will send me back the other keyboard that has been on loan to him for about 2 years...... (it could happen) :)
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #8
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/08 22:21:18 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    Would a midi expression pedal be able to do what you seek?  I have a Behringer FCB1010 midi foot board, and it has 2 midi expression pedals that can each be connected to whatever continuous controller event you wish.
     
    Just a thought.
     
    Oh, by the way, my son just literally last night bought one of these same keyboards, and WOW it sounds great! Maybe he will send me back the other keyboard that has been on loan to him for about 2 years...... (it could happen) :)
      Hi Robert,
    Glad your son got one two, he has great taste! I don't think the FCB1010 will do the trick. I believe it IS a controller and NOT a converter. I need something that will convert MIDI CC to CV (continuos controller messages to a constant voltage) output. Appreciate your input though.
    Bob Bone
     

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #9
    b rock
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 07:30:19 (permalink)
    Killer keyboard.  I wish I hadn't seen that ...
     
    One possible solution might be to convert Sysex to CC with a MIDI Solutions Event Processor.  There's a companion Programming Tools app that generates a custom conversion, which gets stored within the inline MIDI device itself.  Power for the EPP is (usually) derived from the DIN input.  But, for around the same price ...
     
    I think a better solution would be the EHX 8 Step Program.  You can have an expression 'thru' pedal at the input, a versatile eight step sequencer in the middle, and MIDI-to-CV (or expression) at the output.  The MIDI In implementation over individual parameter control is second to none.  And if your destination has a range requirement less than 0-5 VDC (like my Eventide pedals do, at 0-3.3VDC), the maximum Depth can be adjusted over a range of 0 to 10.
     
    I use the 8 Step Program to control most anything I have with an expression pedal (or CV) input ... from my guitar pedalboards to hardware synths.  To satisfy that inner Wakeman, I'll occasionally rely on an AKAI Max 49 to achieve similar results (MIDI-to-CV conversion, with MIDI Note or CC sequencing as the bonus).
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    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 12:53:51 (permalink)
    WallyG
    drewfx1
    ....It's not a big deal at all and completely safe if you know - or know someone - with some basic electronics knowledge.


    I'm very lucky since I know someone very close to me with some basic electronics knowledge.
    Me! I earned a living as an Analog Integrated Circuit Design Engineer! I have a full complement of electronic test equipment (i.e LeCroy 4 channel Color oscilloscope, etc.) in my lab so I'm covered.

     
    Well now I feel a little stupid, especially since I was probably being overly cautious to begin with.  
     

    I appreciate your help in locating a possible candidate for my application. I also found a kit available from PAIA, but I called their sales and customer support numbers since I had some questions and nobody answered the phones.



     
    Not knowing that you were a DIY guy, I didn't mention but there are lots of DIY kits and/or PCB's, etc. in the modular world if you want to investigate that route.
     
    Forum where you might better search/ask:
    https://www.muffwiggler.c..orum/viewforum.php?f=17
     
    List of modules that may or may not be available:
    https://www.modulargrid.n...ow1u=&order=newest

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 13:12:25 (permalink)
    Something else that occurred to me that you might want to consider with this is the possibility of zipper noise.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 21:30:36 (permalink)
    b rock
    Killer keyboard.  I wish I hadn't seen that ...
     
    One possible solution might be to convert Sysex to CC with a MIDI Solutions Event Processor.  There's a companion Programming Tools app that generates a custom conversion, which gets stored within the inline MIDI device itself.  Power for the EPP is (usually) derived from the DIN input.  But, for around the same price ...
     
    I think a better solution would be the EHX 8 Step Program.  You can have an expression 'thru' pedal at the input, a versatile eight step sequencer in the middle, and MIDI-to-CV (or expression) at the output.  The MIDI In implementation over individual parameter control is second to none.  And if your destination has a range requirement less than 0-5 VDC (like my Eventide pedals do, at 0-3.3VDC), the maximum Depth can be adjusted over a range of 0 to 10.
     
    I use the 8 Step Program to control most anything I have with an expression pedal (or CV) input ... from my guitar pedalboards to hardware synths.  To satisfy that inner Wakeman, I'll occasionally rely on an AKAI Max 49 to achieve similar results (MIDI-to-CV conversion, with MIDI Note or CC sequencing as the bonus).


    Thanks for your input. I'll check it out when I return to AZ.

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #13
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 21:31:46 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    Something else that occurred to me that you might want to consider with this is the possibility of zipper noise.


    I'm afraid to ask what zipper noise is,,,

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #14
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/09 21:41:38 (permalink)
    drewfx1
     
    Well now I feel a little stupid, especially since I was probably being overly cautious to begin with.  
     


    You were just trying to be helpful and I truly appreciate your effort! How could you possibly know that I hold 48 US Patents for Electronic Circuit Design? Okay now I'm bragging, but at my age....I can...

    drewfx1
     
    Not knowing that you were a DIY guy, I didn't mention but there are lots of DIY kits and/or PCB's, etc. in the modular world if you want to investigate that route.
     
    Forum where you might better search/ask:
    https://www.muffwiggler.c..orum/viewforum.php?f=17
     
    List of modules that may or may not be available:
    https://www.modulargrid.n...ow1u=&order=newest


    Very helpful! Thanks, I'll check it out.

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #15
    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/10 01:19:17 (permalink)
    WallyG
    drewfx1
    Something else that occurred to me that you might want to consider with this is the possibility of zipper noise.


    I'm afraid to ask what zipper noise is,,,

    Walt



    You have 48 patents and don't know what zipper noise is? 
     
    Basically it's the sound you get from rapidly modulating with a stepped modulation source or destination(s) like a 7 bit CC. 7 bits (absent interpolation or other smoothing) isn't always enough for some things, hence things like 14 bit midi Pitch Bend and/or the somewhat rarely used MSB/LSB 14 bit midi CC pairs. 
     
    If the sysex control is using more than 1 byte for the parameter in question, it might explain why they didn't bother to implement CC control.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/10 12:11:49 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    You have 48 patents and don't know what zipper noise is? 
     


    Most of my patents deal with Analog Circuit Design not Digital, so I'm not up on all the Digital terms. I only worked on Digital circuits under duress. :-) But I did learn something new, so thanks!

    If I can change the position of the Super Knob with a MIDI controlled voltage, than it should be no different than changing it with your hand or the foot pedal, all things being equal.

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #17
    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/10 12:31:04 (permalink)
    WallyG

    If I can change the position of the Super Knob with a MIDI controlled voltage, than it should be no different than changing it with your hand or the foot pedal, all things being equal.

    Walt



    Not quite. A 0-5V CV generated directly from a 7 bit midi CC would be divided into ~.04V steps unless there is filtering on the CV out to slew the stepping at an appropriate rate.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/10 13:02:17 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    WallyG

    If I can change the position of the Super Knob with a MIDI controlled voltage, than it should be no different than changing it with your hand or the foot pedal, all things being equal.

    Walt



    Not quite. A 0-5V CV generated directly from a 7 bit midi CC would be divided into ~.04V steps unless there is filtering on the CV out to slew the stepping at an appropriate rate.


    I understand what your saying, but if you're recording/playing back notes with MIDI and Super Knob positions with Sysex messages isn't' that the same thing? Or are saying that I would need more that 7 bit resolution? I didn't think there were 128 discrete steps of the Super Knob. I'm about 2,500 miles from my Montage (I'm in Webster, Mass), but looking at a photo of the SK on the Web there appears to be 20 discrete positions.

    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #19
    drewfx1
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/10 14:14:43 (permalink)
    WallyG
    drewfx1
    WallyG

    If I can change the position of the Super Knob with a MIDI controlled voltage, than it should be no different than changing it with your hand or the foot pedal, all things being equal.

    Walt



    Not quite. A 0-5V CV generated directly from a 7 bit midi CC would be divided into ~.04V steps unless there is filtering on the CV out to slew the stepping at an appropriate rate.


    I understand what your saying, but if you're recording/playing back notes with MIDI and Super Knob positions with Sysex messages isn't' that the same thing? Or are saying that I would need more that 7 bit resolution? I didn't think there were 128 discrete steps of the Super Knob. I'm about 2,500 miles from my Montage (I'm in Webster, Mass), but looking at a photo of the SK on the Web there appears to be 20 discrete positions.

    Walt



    Sysex can have whatever resolution is required based on the number of bytes assigned to the parameter in the sysex implementation. But out of curiosity I just looked at the midi sysex implementation in the Data List manual and I found that the Super Knob position is indeed only 7 bit in this case.
     
    So you are correct. The stepping/zipper noise is only a potential problem if the knob input has greater than 7 bit resolution. Or if they're applying smoothing/interpolation when the knob is changed but did something dumb and didn't apply that smoothing for everything that could control the knob parameter. 
     
    It's indeed very odd that it doesn't receive CC as it looks from the manual like it can be set to send CC.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #20
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/16 20:43:25 (permalink)
    drewfx1
    WallyG
    drewfx1
    WallyG

    If I can change the position of the Super Knob with a MIDI controlled voltage, than it should be no different than changing it with your hand or the foot pedal, all things being equal.

    Walt



    Not quite. A 0-5V CV generated directly from a 7 bit midi CC would be divided into ~.04V steps unless there is filtering on the CV out to slew the stepping at an appropriate rate.


    I understand what your saying, but if you're recording/playing back notes with MIDI and Super Knob positions with Sysex messages isn't' that the same thing? Or are saying that I would need more that 7 bit resolution? I didn't think there were 128 discrete steps of the Super Knob. I'm about 2,500 miles from my Montage (I'm in Webster, Mass), but looking at a photo of the SK on the Web there appears to be 20 discrete positions.

    Walt



    Sysex can have whatever resolution is required based on the number of bytes assigned to the parameter in the sysex implementation. But out of curiosity I just looked at the midi sysex implementation in the Data List manual and I found that the Super Knob position is indeed only 7 bit in this case.
     
    So you are correct. The stepping/zipper noise is only a potential problem if the knob input has greater than 7 bit resolution. Or if they're applying smoothing/interpolation when the knob is changed but did something dumb and didn't apply that smoothing for everything that could control the knob parameter. 
     
    It's indeed very odd that it doesn't receive CC as it looks from the manual like it can be set to send CC.




    Okay returned to AZ and did some further checking. The Super Knob is indeed 7 bit as you stated. I recorded just the position of the SK as I slowly moved it from left to right and looked at the Sysex data in the event list. The bit that controlled the position went from 0 to 7E (Hex).
     
    I looked at the schematic of the Yamaha FC7 Foot pedal and it's simply a 50K ohm Potentiometer connected to a TRS Plug. One end of the pot connects to Montage ground via the shield, the other end goes a 3.3 Vdc reference via the Tip and the slider (ring) becomes the control voltage for the Super Knob position.
     
    Thinking about it on the flight back, I believe I know why they decided to use Sysex to record/playback the SK position. The Montage can have 16 channels of "parts", each with thier own MIDI channel. Instead of assigning a MIDI CC to control the position, they used sysex to 'Isolate" that function. All well and good but there is no easy way to edit the position if say you did a world class performace on the keyboard that you cound never repeat, but the timing of the SK was off and spoiled it.
     
    I don't envision recording 16 parts at once, so I want to have a MIDI to CV converter on a channel I'm not using, or a CC on a channel I am using. Make sense?
     
    Walt  
     

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #21
    SuperG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/16 21:08:35 (permalink)
    Ahhh..... starting to make some sense to me now...
     
    CC 4, although it says it's for a foot controller, is a 'channel' message, so it wouldn't be appropriate here. Besides, anybody know of a synth that actually uses CC 4? I can't find anything.
     

    laudem Deo
    #22
    WallyG
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    Re: MIDI CC to Voltage Converter. 2016/07/25 12:01:51 (permalink)
    SuperG
    Ahhh..... starting to make some sense to me now...
     
    CC 4, although it says it's for a foot controller, is a 'channel' message, so it wouldn't be appropriate here. Besides, anybody know of a synth that actually uses CC 4? I can't find anything.
     




    Hey SuperG. I finished up a design that works "super". I modified a PAIA kit called MIDI2CV8. I converted the output stage so that the Montage "thinks" that a foot pedal is plugged into the foot pedal input. More like a potentiometer as opposed to an external control voltage.
     
    I love being able to tweak the Super Knob position by MIDI CC. I don't do live gigs anymore, and this is great for recording with Sonar!
     
    Walt

    Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat,  Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors,
    My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
    #23
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