pinguinotuerto
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Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
Hey folks, I know the samples in AD2 and other programs sound really good, but what I have struggled with since I started using it and other programs is the fact that I could always tell it wasn't real drums being played. Not because of the quality of the samples, but more so because of the character of the dynamics (especially of the snare and hi-hat). It has always sounded unnatural to my ear- too clean and perfect without enough variations in dynamics and tone. I don't really like any of their presets and have always had to combine kit-pieces from different Ad Packs to get a sound I find acceptable. Their manual is not that great when it comes to really explaining the ways in which you can tweak certain things. There are a lot of different settings that affect each other and how the samples respond to your playing. This is particularly important when you're using an e-kit to trigger the samples. Not only do your AD settings affect the sound and response, but also the settings in your e-kit's brain and your pads. I have really struggled with this for a long time and feel that finally after much trial and error, I've gotten to the point where to me, it sounds almost like a real kit being played. I still think I'm going to have to upgrade my V Drums' brain in order to capture more subtleties in my playing, but wanted to see what some of you think about where I'm at so far. Here's a link to 3 short clips I did playing different grooves with a custom kit I made. There's nothing in the chain, just AD2 going to Sonar's Master bus without anything being turned on in the Pro Channel.
post edited by pinguinotuerto - 2016/09/16 20:32:34
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 14:11:57
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/08/16 14:32:56
Hello, to me the dynamic of the of the AD 2 presetzs is also not natural sounding, that´why I disable the AD2 included compression . I like some of the presets a lot , but without compression. I got some feedbacks of ny mixes pointing out the natural sounding drums.
post edited by Pragi - 2016/08/16 14:36:57
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 14:13:55
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Pragi
Hello,
to me the dynamic of the of the AD 2 presetzs is also
not natural sounding,
that´why I disable the AD2 included compression .
I like some of the presets a lot , but without compression.
I got some feedbacks of ny mixes pointing out the natural sunding drums.
What compression do you usually put on them?
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Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2)
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 14:21:25
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pinguinotuerto
Pragi
Hello,
to me the dynamic of the of the AD 2 presetzs is also
not natural sounding,
that´why I disable the AD2 included compression .
I like some of the presets a lot , but without compression.
I got some feedbacks of ny mixes pointing out the natural sunding drums.
What compression do you usually put on them?
I use a lot the Waves SSL 4000 and the Slate VMR Compressor and eq´s. It deepends on the song structure and the type of music.
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Boscoe
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 14:22:30
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I dunno, I'm using a 15-year-old Yamaha DTX kit as a controller for AD2 and I think my snare and high hats sound incredibly realistic with all kinds of subtlety and nuance. ...That you'll never hear in a mix. ;P
I agree that I had to cobble together a bunch of different parts from multiple kit packs to get what I wanted. I think the main things I tweaked was the velocity curves and the pitch and adjusted the room/overhead mic levels a bit.
When I first started messing with AD2 I would have totally agreed with your critiques, The kits felt kind of stiff and stale. But to be honest, in the end I spent 1000% more time adjusting the pad settings on the DTX than the settings in AD2. For me, that was the key to the whole thing. AD2 was doing a fine job, it was my pad settings that needed more attention. What worked okay for the onboard sounds for the last 15 years turned out to be woefully inadequate for AD2.
I've been considering upgrading the DTX brain and snare/hh pads just to see if it is even better than what I have now! :)
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 14:26:53
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Boscoe
I spent 1000% more time adjusting the pad settings on the DTX than the settings in AD2. For me, that was the key to the whole thing. AD2 was doing a fine job, it was my pad settings that needed more attention.
I've been considering upgrading the DTX brain and snare/hh pads just to see if it is even better than what I have now! :)
I agree, tweaking the TD-4's settings was the key for me, but it doesn't support positional sensing, so I think to get what I want, I need to upgrade my TD-4!
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Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2)
Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)KRK VXT 8 Monitors
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 16:34:52
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Wow, the Soundcloud encoding added a really "phasey" effect to the tracks that wasn't there in the original (especially the hi-hats). That's never happened before. Unless it's my internet connection.
post edited by pinguinotuerto - 2016/08/16 17:05:52
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Line 6 UX8 with PodFarm 2 Platinum 2 Joe Meek VC6Q British Channels
Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2)
Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)KRK VXT 8 Monitors
Frontier Alphatrack, Razer Naga Mouse, nanoKontrol2
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 17:17:29
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☄ Helpfulby pinguinotuerto 2016/08/16 18:33:49
pinguinotuerto
Wow, the Soundcloud encoding added a really "phasey" effect to the tracks that wasn't there in the original (especially the hi-hats). That's never happened before. Unless it's my internet connection.
I´m not sure if there is a trick like that uploading a track to soundcloud, but if you upload an mp3 to youtube, is has to be highest -3 db peak, cause the youtube compression aso is adding 3 db , otherwise the track will sound distorted on youtube.
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 17:26:58
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Pragi
I´m not sure if there is a trick like that uploading a track to soundcloud,
but if you upload an mp3 to youtube, is has to be highest -3 db peak,
cause the youtube compression aso is adding 3 db ,
otherwise the track will sound distorted on youtube.
Thanks for the tip!
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bapu
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/16 17:35:27
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☄ Helpfulby pinguinotuerto 2016/08/16 18:34:01
In my experience uploading a 24/44.1K wav file yields the best results to soundcloud.
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 03:08:21
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bapu
In my experience uploading a 24/44.1K wav file yields the best results to soundcloud.
Didn´t know that, thank you . Is there any other thing to pay attention ?
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 03:17:00
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MacFurse
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 07:01:46
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So I'm really curious guys. This is an honest question, not a gee up. I'm pretty happy with AD2, but I guess I come from the days when the Alesis HR-16 was just an incredible advance in boxed drum sounds. I wish I could consider recording a real drummer for my work, but I can't really see it happening, and to be honest, I'm not sure I could better what I do. But........ Whilst I go to great lengths to have ever changing dynamics and timing, even things like using three of the same snares with slightly different sounds, mixed up within the track, to cover what I see is mis-hits etc, am I just a typical finger tapping guitarist that should stay out of drums? I think what I do is fantastic, because the gear I have to work with is fantastic, but bowing to real drummers who know their stuff, and really get all the little nuances that make up a great drum performance, should I really use a drummer, even if it's for midi recording to AD2, if I want to put out pro work?
What do you drummers think ? It is something that makes a difference to you hearing work that you know is real drums, or real time inputted? Is it a big difference to your ears?
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dcumpian
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 08:59:45
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Having played drums in the past, even though I was always primarily a guitarist, I can say that the most important thing to getting realistic sounding drum tracks using a keyboard is: - Don't hit the keys too hard. You don't want every hit at 127.
- Vary fills, kick beats, ghost notes as a drummer would.
- Don't be afraid to make a mess. You can always clean up the notes later.
- Don't over-quantize.
- Do quantize where needed.
As practice, take a favorite commercial song and import it into Sonar. Then record drum tracks playing along with the real thing. Try to replicate the "feel" of the drummer. Regards, Dan
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pentimentosound
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 09:19:04
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That link doesn't work Pragi.
Michael
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 14:29:30
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 14:34:16
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Don´t know why, but the new link in post 16 works for me, when I insert the same link into post 12 it doesn´t work !!!!????
post edited by Pragi - 2016/08/17 14:58:50
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Pragi
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 14:39:14
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OK. it´s resolved . 
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pentimentosound
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/17 17:18:58
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Realistic Dynamics in AD2?
2016/08/18 00:48:51
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MacFurse
So I'm really curious guys. This is an honest question, not a gee up. I'm pretty happy with AD2, but I guess I come from the days when the Alesis HR-16 was just an incredible advance in boxed drum sounds. I wish I could consider recording a real drummer for my work, but I can't really see it happening, and to be honest, I'm not sure I could better what I do. But........ Whilst I go to great lengths to have ever changing dynamics and timing, even things like using three of the same snares with slightly different sounds, mixed up within the track, to cover what I see is mis-hits etc, am I just a typical finger tapping guitarist that should stay out of drums? I think what I do is fantastic, because the gear I have to work with is fantastic, but bowing to real drummers who know their stuff, and really get all the little nuances that make up a great drum performance, should I really use a drummer, even if it's for midi recording to AD2, if I want to put out pro work?
What do you drummers think ? It is something that makes a difference to you hearing work that you know is real drums, or real time inputted? Is it a big difference to your ears?
You don't need a drummer to put out "pro work". I love loops, programmed drums and all kinds of different things. Obviously, it depends on the music you're doing. I'm just speaking as a drummer who's trying to get AD2 and my TD-4 Vdrums to sound and respond to my playing as close to a real drumset as possible. Your keyboard drumming might be fantastic, and if you like it, that's all that matters.
post edited by pinguinotuerto - 2016/08/18 01:11:04
HP DV7-3085 Laptop (Intel Core i7 720 1.6 GHZ, 6 GB RAM, 1333 MHZ FSB, 2 500GB 7200 RPM Internal HDs, 17" screen), HP 2009m Monitor, 2TB Ext Drive
Line 6 UX8 with PodFarm 2 Platinum 2 Joe Meek VC6Q British Channels
Sonar Platinum & X3e Producer (64 Bit) AD2 w Roland V-Drums (TD4KX2)
Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)KRK VXT 8 Monitors
Frontier Alphatrack, Razer Naga Mouse, nanoKontrol2
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