Florocka
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Endorsement
Does anyone know what it entails to be endorsed by Cakewalk?
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Larry Jones
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 02:58:50
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I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd bet it would go something like this: - Make a hit recording using Sonar.
- Sell a million copies.
- Mention Sonar every time a reporter sticks a mic in your face.
- Clip the resulting magazine articles and enclose them in a letter to Cakewalk, with your request that they make an offer to endorse you.
Good luck.
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PilotGav
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 07:12:05
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Darn! I have every step except #4 down.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 14:03:32
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I would suggest that if you can sell a million recordings, you probably can get by without a Cakewalk endorsement.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 14:06:07
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Given the low cost for Cakewalk products, i'd be surprised if an endorsement deal would be worthwhile from either side.
If you're big enough to give CW more publicity, you can just buy the product. And if you can't afford to buy their product, chances are you're not going to get them much publicity.
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dwardzala
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 14:32:01
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Damn - I got 3 and 4 covered.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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bapu
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 15:53:47
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PilotGav
Darn! I have every step except #4 down.
Can we blend my #4 with your #1-3?
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bapu
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 15:54:47
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2016/08/23 16:23:27
Uh Oh. I thought # 1 and # 2 were about post count.
My bad.
Carry on.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 16:41:17
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slartabartfast
I would suggest that if you can sell a million recordings, you probably can get by without a Cakewalk endorsement.
Making .05 per recording is only $50,000 which is pretty much equal to the average salary in the US by most reports. Which is also about average for a recording engineer. If recording is your full time job, most would hope to be seeing a million recording sold across their customer base, or close too it to keep afloat. I'm not sure on the OP's question, but I'd bet it isn't about one licence really. I have the opportunity to run some clinics at a music school, right now they are set up with pro-tools, but I told them I was only interested in showing others how to run Sonar. It is a scenario like that where an endorsement makes sense. I (the instructor) exposing multiple people in a learning environment how to use the program, a better than educational price structure would make sense based on exposure, the value the endorcer brings to the relationship, etc.
post edited by Brian Walton - 2016/08/23 17:06:22
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 16:42:52
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“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless. 
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chuckebaby
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 17:08:11
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is there anyone endorsed by cakewalk ? I don't think so. I know cake does articles on DAW users, musicians, exc. but I don't think they endorse those users. I would look into guitar string company's 
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bapu
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 17:11:32
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/08/24 10:36:20
If CW did articles on banal posters I'd be the first. Followed by me. And then wrapped up with me.
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 17:55:07
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chuckebaby
is there anyone endorsed by cakewalk ?
I don't think so. I know cake does articles on DAW users, musicians, exc. but I don't think they endorse those users.
I would look into guitar string company's
Right. And kind of my point. Herbie Hancock, Stevie Wonder, et al., endorsed synthesizer manufacturers like Kurzweil, Korg, or whatever. Kurzweil and Korg didn't bother "endorsing" Herbie or Stevie as it would have been a bit "after the fact": they were already recognized as great musicians. It would be like Fender endorsing Eric Clapton or Stevie Ray Vaughan. Or Tropicana endorsing Michael Phelps or Simone Biles. Endorsement goes the other way.
Granted (as evidenced by my posting the pictures of the (ahem) "artists" above in my previous post, we've come to the point where (particularly) young (and apparently "babe-a-licious") musicians may seek to endorse a product because of the inherent promotional value of the same (as in the "she must be a great player because she promotes such-and-such, and such-and-such has got to be a great product because she promotes it" type of circular reasoning that market types push and expect us to believe), but I don't think we're to the point yet where the manufacturers endorse the artists. Maybe, we will get there if the general cheapening of achievement in the arts via promotion and meaningless awards for "talent" (e.g., the Smithsonian Thelonius Monk Awards) continues unabated. Remember the "good old days" when musicians would prove themselves on the club circuit and work up through better venues? Maybe we could try that again. We didn't need an "award" (or even the Downbeat poll) to tell us who was to be respected; we knew because we heard their work and it impressed us. The polls reflected the opinions of the listeners, not vice versa.
What a concept: real achievement before notoriety. Whoa! It was often a long and hard climb, but at the end, one knew what one really had. BTW, this is what a jazz saxophonist really looks like (both also from the LeBayle site):
 or...  I'm not opposed to endorsements, but let's make sure they mean something. And that means that they come from someone who has paid their dues. And actually prefers the endorsed products.
post edited by outland144k - 2016/08/24 14:07:47
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 18:20:35
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Brian Walton
Making .05 per recording is only $50,000 which is pretty much equal to the average salary in the US by most reports. Which is also about average for a recording engineer.
If recording is your full time job, most would hope to be seeing a million recording sold across their customer base, or close too it to keep afloat.
There is certainly ambiguity about "sell" and "recording," but the source for $0.05 is puzzling. Streaming (which is certainly not a sale of a recording) is orders of magnitude less than .05 per play--more like $.001 if the artist does not split with a recording company. An artist's cut of a "traditional" recording contract for physical media is in the range of 10-20 % of the retail sales price of a CD--say $1.50+ per album. And direct "sales" of MP3 downloads via the internet at $.99 per song usually yield the artist at around $0.60. I assume the OP is not expecting Cakewalk to endorse him for being the recording or mixing engineer or "producer" on someone else's work.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 23:18:18
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outland144k
Seriously, though: users endorse products they (hopefully) believe in and use, right? Manufacturers simply have groups of artists that endorse their products; they don't endorse the artists, per se.
You are technically and linguistically correct, but remember we are dealing with musicians here, not necessarily the most grammatical folks. "Endorse," "endorsement," and the very popular "endorsement deal" are expressions that have come to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean, and it's been going on far too long for you to be complaining that people are using the term wrong. What I want it to mean is that Gibson gives me a bunch of their ridiculously overpriced fancy guitars and sends me on a tour of medium sized venues in exotic locales around the world, of course paying for transport, lodging, sidemen, etc. They can endorse me, or I'll endorse them, whatever they want.
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Anderton
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/23 23:31:04
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Larry Jones
You are technically and linguistically correct, but remember we are dealing with musicians here, not necessarily the most grammatical folks. "Endorse," "endorsement," and the very popular "endorsement deal" are expressions that have come to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean...[snip]
Excellent point, and it leads into my question...what would an "endorsement" from Cakewalk look like? What would the artist expect from an "endorsement," and what would they offer Cakewalk in return?
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/24 00:19:20
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Larry Jones
outland144k
Seriously, though: users endorse products they (hopefully) believe in and use, right? Manufacturers simply have groups of artists that endorse their products; they don't endorse the artists, per se.
You are technically and linguistically correct, but remember we are dealing with musicians here, not necessarily the most grammatical folks. "Endorse," "endorsement," and the very popular "endorsement deal" are expressions that have come to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean, and it's been going on far too long for you to be complaining that people are using the term wrong.
What I want it to mean is that Gibson gives me a bunch of their ridiculously overpriced fancy guitars and sends me on a tour of medium sized venues in exotic locales around the world, of course paying for transport, lodging, sidemen, etc.
They can endorse me, or I'll endorse them, whatever they want.
Actually, it's only on this forum that I've heard the term turned on its head as it is here. I believe it occurred when the OP set the terms of the question. Everyone just followed suit in the thread, not questioning the use of the terminology. Can you actually quote another musician stating that "he" or "she" was endorsed by a company? I can't think of one musician to so claim. OTOH, musicians endorse products all the time (and are happy so to do as it generally means the exchange of goods and/or cash). Especially given the fact that you've already admitted to the error, I actually and certainly can complain if I want to.  And language does count for something.  "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all." Or one can be more like Voltaire and insist on the definition of terms, if one must. Then we can proceed in meaningful conversation. But complaining? That's definitely within my purview. 
post edited by outland144k - 2016/08/24 14:05:17
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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Hatstand
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/24 07:05:59
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I had an endorsement deal with a well known microphone manufacturer for a number of years which meant I got free microphones and they got the occasional snippets about my associations with particular artists. So it can be a two way street but I cannot see much value in this for DAW users/companies given the cost of the products being way lower than for example the cost of sets of high end mics, instruments or hardware.
p.s. now all I get is a Season's Greeting card once a year :(
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Brian Walton
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/24 13:48:48
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slartabartfast
Brian Walton
Making .05 per recording is only $50,000 which is pretty much equal to the average salary in the US by most reports. Which is also about average for a recording engineer.
If recording is your full time job, most would hope to be seeing a million recording sold across their customer base, or close too it to keep afloat.
There is certainly ambiguity about "sell" and "recording," but the source for $0.05 is puzzling. Streaming (which is certainly not a sale of a recording) is orders of magnitude less than .05 per play--more like $.001 if the artist does not split with a recording company. An artist's cut of a "traditional" recording contract for physical media is in the range of 10-20 % of the retail sales price of a CD--say $1.50+ per album. And direct "sales" of MP3 downloads via the internet at $.99 per song usually yield the artist at around $0.60.
I assume the OP is not expecting Cakewalk to endorse him for being the recording or mixing engineer or "producer" on someone else's work.
Different engineers work different rates, but getting 5% on a digital track sale at .99 a pop for a recording would be more than reasonable. If you are an artist that is also the recording engineer (user of the DAW) to produce your work, you are the exception to the business model in most professional circles. Even those with some familiarity to hack out a demo on it, if you are looking to sell your product to the masses, you still get a pro to do the recording/editing/production end of things.
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/08/25 00:42:46
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Hatstand
I had an endorsement deal with a well known microphone manufacturer for a number of years which meant I got free microphones and they got the occasional snippets about my associations with particular artists. So it can be a two way street but I cannot see much value in this for DAW users/companies given the cost of the products being way lower than for example the cost of sets of high end mics, instruments or hardware.
p.s. now all I get is a Season's Greeting card once a year :(
I was on the road with Stan Kenton (his last band before he passed on). One of the older saxophonists told me how, several years before, Yamaha had given the entire sax section new saxes. They were elated to have received them, but after a couple of months, all decided to go back to their original saxes as the metallurgy was weak (Yamaha does a better job on this score now) and the horns would not sustain an adjustment for repairs. After that, Geoff Lawton gave the entire sax section free mouthpieces. This arrangement fared a bit better, as at least a couple of the sax players decided that the mouthpieces were just what they wanted. The others, however, were upfront with Mr. Lawton (as all also were with Yamaha) about not being able to endorse the mouthpieces anymore. Neither company attempted to get an endorsement with the band when I was on the road with the band, unfortunately. In Lawton's case, such would have been easy with me as I was using one of his mouthpieces on my own. I did get a Christmas card from Ronald Reagan once (my brother's then girlfriend was in his secretary pool in the White House, and he extended the courtesy to them to send Christmas cards to any two acquaintances they chose). I didn't even have to endorse him. Boy, I wish I still had that Christmas card. It probably would have been worth something.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/11 02:46:01
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outland144k
Actually, it's only on this forum that I've heard the term turned on its head as it is here. I believe it occurred when the OP set the terms of the question. Everyone just followed suit in the thread, not questioning the use of the terminology. Can you actually quote another musician stating that "he" or "she" was endorsed by a company? I can't think of one musician to so claim. OTOH, musicians endorse products all the time (and are happy so to do as it generally means the exchange of goods and/or cash).
Especially given the fact that you've already admitted to the error, I actually and certainly can complain if I want to. And language does count for something.
*******EDIT********
Or one can be more like Voltaire and insist on the definition of terms, if one must. Then we can proceed in meaningful conversation.
But complaining? That's definitely within my purview.
Well, of course you can complain if you want to. I didn't mean you were not allowed to complain about the way others use language. I just meant it wouldn't get you anywhere, as people know what they mean by "endorse," even if they use the term "incorrectly." And what they mean is that some company or manufacturer gives them free stuff or sponsors a tour or something like that, and in exchange they use -- or pretend to use -- the free stuff and say nice things about it in public. Language evolves. It's not always pretty, and if you happen to be around to witness the beginnings of a new mutation, it can be uncomfortable. But on the bright side, your children's children will be unconcerned about this.
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bbach
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/11 10:13:16
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/09/11 20:25:36
After seeing the Fredrick Lebayle endorsees, I'm gonna buy one and I don't even have a saxophone.
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/11 20:04:54
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Larry Jones
outland144k
Actually, it's only on this forum that I've heard the term turned on its head as it is here. I believe it occurred when the OP set the terms of the question. Everyone just followed suit in the thread, not questioning the use of the terminology. Can you actually quote another musician stating that "he" or "she" was endorsed by a company? I can't think of one musician to so claim. OTOH, musicians endorse products all the time (and are happy so to do as it generally means the exchange of goods and/or cash).
Especially given the fact that you've already admitted to the error, I actually and certainly can complain if I want to. And language does count for something.
*******EDIT********
Or one can be more like Voltaire and insist on the definition of terms, if one must. Then we can proceed in meaningful conversation.
But complaining? That's definitely within my purview.
Well, of course you can complain if you want to. I didn't mean you were not allowed to complain about the way others use language. I just meant it wouldn't get you anywhere, as people know what they mean by "endorse," even if they use the term "incorrectly." And what they mean is that some company or manufacturer gives them free stuff or sponsors a tour or something like that, and in exchange they use -- or pretend to use -- the free stuff and say nice things about it in public.
Language evolves. It's not always pretty, and if you happen to be around to witness the beginnings of a new mutation, it can be uncomfortable. But on the bright side, your children's children will be unconcerned about this.
Of course, language "evolves". And I guess someone might say "it's not often pretty or comfortable" (though I doubt I would say that; I'm not much of a stickler for definitions, per se, I just appreciate clear verbiage designed to communicate, not obfuscate.) It's just that the language hasn't "evolved" in this case. It is simply being misused, right here, in this thread, dear sir. You can disprove me, if you so desire: merely find several examples from real life where it is expressly stated that a company endorses an artist who uses its products in that many words and using that language. If the language has "evolved" as you maintain regarding the word "endorse", this should not be all that difficult. The evolution of language is not an isolated happenstance and one thread on the Cakewalk Forum would not be enough to justify the use of the term. Such examples should be fairly commonplace. So far in this discussion, some have informally departed from the common usage of the word "endorse", turned it on its head 180 degrees, and wondered what such an endorsement would look like. That's fine, as long as we understand what we have done with the language. At the end of the day, however, such misuse is not enough to warrant the use of the term "evolve" to denote what has happened on one thread. So, I ask you, sir: where exactly are other examples (specifically) of the word "endorse" used in the manner you so describe as this lexicographical "evolution"? I raised the issue regarding the error of the terminology precisely because I realized I had never (to my recollection) seen the term used in the manner it was used in this thread before anywhere. But, I hasten to add, I may be in error. My life experience here on the East Coast is certainly plausibly limited. Just where exactly have you seen the definition of the word "endorse" used in the manner it is used here in this thread? Generalities, of course, would necessarily be verboten for our purposes in this case. The evolution of a word cannot be proven by broad anecdotal impression. I await your specific examples illustrating such a use of the word "endorse."
post edited by outland144k - 2016/09/11 20:32:53
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/12 01:29:18
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That is four demands in one comment for literal, verbatim proof of my assertion. And it seems as if you want published quotes from other digital or print sources, as you make it clear that I don't get to cite my own impressions. Unfortunately for me my statement is based on personal experience, conversations with folks I've met over the years. I wasn't expecting to one day be held to such a rigorous standard, and so I failed to ask for signed statements, and thus have no proof that meets your bar. In any case, based on your comments so far in this thread, you'd probably suspect forgery, or at the very least bad transcription.
So nice going, Mr. outland144k -- you win. But it remains my perception that we are seeing a blurring of the meaning of the concept of endorsement and that the trend will continue -- because there is no practical reason for it to stop -- until the accepted usage of "endorsement" loses the specific polarity it once had, e.g., "the Stan Kenton band endorses Lawton mouthpieces" vs. "Cakewalk endorses the OP."
And let me stipulate clearly here, this is my perception only. You still win.
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BassDaddy
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/12 09:49:08
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bapu
Uh Oh. I thought # 1 and # 2 were about post count.
My bad.
Carry on.
It wasn't?
It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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outland144k
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Re: Endorsement
2016/09/12 11:33:53
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Larry Jones
That is four demands in one comment for literal, verbatim proof of my assertion. And it seems as if you want published quotes from other digital or print sources, as you make it clear that I don't get to cite my own impressions. Unfortunately for me my statement is based on personal experience, conversations with folks I've met over the years. I wasn't expecting to one day be held to such a rigorous standard, and so I failed to ask for signed statements, and thus have no proof that meets your bar. In any case, based on your comments so far in this thread, you'd probably suspect forgery, or at the very least bad transcription.
So nice going, Mr. outland144k -- you win. But it remains my perception that we are seeing a blurring of the meaning of the concept of endorsement and that the trend will continue -- because there is no practical reason for it to stop -- until the accepted usage of "endorsement" loses the specific polarity it once had, e.g., "the Stan Kenton band endorses Lawton mouthpieces" vs. "Cakewalk endorses the OP."
And let me stipulate clearly here, this is my perception only. You still win.
So noted. I'll celebrate tonight with a brew.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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