Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work

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Pete Iverson
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2016/08/25 16:48:47 (permalink)
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Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work

My third posting today.  
I have just discovered that the insert patch change doesn't work.  Here, I am using VSL with a particular matrix and want to change to a different matrix in the middle of the piece.  In a fair and just world, I would insert a patch change command into the midi data and that would be that.  In Platinum, this feature does not work.  I'm not sure if this is unique to the August 2016 update as I have not tried this with Platinum prior to today.  As usual, I have confirmed that this still works as advertised in X2.
 
At this point in its development, I have to conclude that Platinum is a failed product.  It's not a question of whether it has wonderful new features; it's that old features, the fundamental stuff that worked just fine, the stuff that's necessary to enjoy the new features, have gone awry.  I'm glad that I still have X2;  I will waste no further time trying to get Platinum in its present state to work properly.  I simply hope that in one of the ever rolling updates, Cakewalk takes the time to work on the basics.
 
Pete Iverson
 
 
 
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/26 13:04:02 (permalink)
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    That's seems a little rough. I would have thought you'd be encouraged that Seth Kellogg already acknowledged the Paste Special issue, and promised it will be fixed sooner than later (not to mention it has an easy workaround: change the focused track for pasting - my preferred method, actually). FWIW, I'm guessing this is related to the change made to allow lane-aware pasting. An unfortunate regression, but these things happen.
     
    In any case, I don't have VSL, but I'll try to check this out in a little while, and confirm it with some other synth.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/26 13:25:44 (permalink)
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    Quick tests with Lounge Lizard VSTi,  TTS-1 DXi and a hardware synth worked as expected. Maybe something specific to VSL...?

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    #3
    Pete Iverson
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/26 18:26:42 (permalink)
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    You're probably right, Brundlefly.  I did say I was having a bad day.  And I didn't even mention yet another third "regression" issue - the inability to use the number pad to enter numerical data from the number pad in certain common situations.  Yes, there's a work around for this; entering data from the top row of the keyboard always works.  There's also a work around for the copy and paste issue.  However, these work-arounds are incompatible with my personal work habits and a patently bad solution for software that promotes itself as getting out of the way of the creative process.
     
    The patch change issue is more problematic; there is no practical work around that I can find.  (By the way, thank for your investigations with other plug-ins.  I do have TTS-1 and I was able to confirm that the patch change feature does work with it.  However, program changes are different with VSL; there you are switching between various matrices, each of which contain a user-defined set of articulations rather than an ordered set of presets.)  The bottom line is that this process worked with X2 and does not work with Platinum, at least as of the end of August.
     
    I am pleased that Seth responded promptly to my cut and paste email.  Will I see a fix at the end of September?  He doesn't really say.  He also hasn't responded to my program change email but I will follow up.  I emailed tech support a month and a half  ago about the number entry problem.  As has been widely noted elsewhere in this forum, I guess I shouldn't be expecting a response any time soon.
     
    Best Wishes
     
    //p
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/26 23:09:13 (permalink)
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    Hitting 0 on Numkey pad when you don't have a value field open for editing will enable Enhanced Editing mode where the numkeys become navigation/selection/editing controls instead of numbers. Possibly you're inadvertently doing that, and it's causing the numkeys to become unavailable for other purposes like changing screensets...? 

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    Pete Iverson
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/27 12:00:16 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the suggestion, Brundlefly; you obviously know your way around the software.  Unfortunately, that's not what's happening here.  I will try to describe the problem in more detail and if you have the time and inclination perhaps you can offer your feedback.
     
    Create a midi track and enter some data using the step record function.  Now, with the step record function still turned on (not just up but with little red footstep button lit), right click on a note to edit it.  The note properties panel pops up.  Try to edit any of the numerical values on the panel using the number pad.  Nothing is entered.  However, entries can be made using the top row of the keyboard.  Now turn step record off.  The number pad now functions properly.  Turn step record back on, highlight a note and try to edit using the event inspector and number pad; this should work.
     
    The same behavior occurs whenever an edit is to be done via a  pop up menu:  For example, length, slide, transpose, scale velocity.  I haven't tried to inventory every possible instance but the common theme so far seems to be (a) step record active + (b) an attempt to edit data from a pop up panel.
     
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
     
    //p
     
     
     
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/29 15:38:34 (permalink)
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    Hi Pete, I can confirm that when the Step Record dialog is open and active, it continues to steal keystrokes from the Numeric Keypad when you try to edit values in a Note Properties dialog or other pop-up dialogs. I further verified that this was not a problem in X3e, but I didn't try earlier versions of Platinum so I can't confirm it just showed up in the most recent release. I don't normally use either Step Recorder or Note Properties dialog, so I wouldn't know how it's been working recently, but there's clearly a problem now.

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    SquireBum
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/29 22:12:25 (permalink)
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    A little Sonar archeology only if you are interested.  
     
    The Sonar "Cambridge" version ,released in March, 2015, inadvertently disabled keyboard shortcuts for Step Record.  This was reported here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3198704.  The keyboard shortcuts were restored in the "Dorchester" version released in April, 2015.  I just did a rollback to the "Braintree" version from February, 2015 and found that the Step Record did not steal the keystrokes as it currently does.
     
    Conclusion:  Step Record has been stealing Numeric Keypad keystrokes since April, 2015 "Dorchester" release.
     
    -- Ron

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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/30 04:32:58 (permalink)
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    As far as the patch changes not working - I just saw Noel from Cakewalk post to another thread, indicating that VST3 specifications apparently don't support midi patch changes.  Perhaps you are working with a VST3 synth?  IF so, you could try using the VST2 version of the synth, which should support the midi program changes.
     
    I hope that helps, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    Pete Iverson
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/30 16:39:27 (permalink)
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    Thanks to all who replied.  I did get an email from Cakewalk acknowledging the data entry problem and which gave me reason to hope that it will be resolved soon.  I likewise discovered the patch change issue appears to be confined to VST3 synths and is a Steinberg problem.  Glad to have a different company to complain about!  Fortunately, I can still use the VST2 of Vienna Instruments.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/31 12:58:24 (permalink)
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    SquireBum
    A little Sonar archeology only if you are interested.  
     
    The Sonar "Cambridge" version ,released in March, 2015, inadvertently disabled keyboard shortcuts for Step Record.  This was reported here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3198704.  The keyboard shortcuts were restored in the "Dorchester" version released in April, 2015.  I just did a rollback to the "Braintree" version from February, 2015 and found that the Step Record did not steal the keystrokes as it currently does.
     
    Conclusion:  Step Record has been stealing Numeric Keypad keystrokes since April, 2015 "Dorchester" release.
     
    -- Ron


     
    I saw that, but it wasn't clear that this fix directly precipitated the 'always stealing' issue. OP seemed to imply this was a more recent development, but maybe he hadn't tried editing Note Properties with Step Recorder open since the Dorchester 'fix' until now...?

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    Pete Iverson
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/31 16:33:16 (permalink)
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    The OP just upgraded to Platinum in July.
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    SquireBum
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    Re: Having a Bad Day I Guess - Patch Change Doesn't Work 2016/08/31 17:30:52 (permalink)
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    brundlefly
    SquireBum
    A little Sonar archeology only if you are interested.  
     
    The Sonar "Cambridge" version ,released in March, 2015, inadvertently disabled keyboard shortcuts for Step Record.  This was reported here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3198704.  The keyboard shortcuts were restored in the "Dorchester" version released in April, 2015.  I just did a rollback to the "Braintree" version from February, 2015 and found that the Step Record did not steal the keystrokes as it currently does.
     
    Conclusion:  Step Record has been stealing Numeric Keypad keystrokes since April, 2015 "Dorchester" release.
     
    -- Ron


     
    I saw that, but it wasn't clear that this fix directly precipitated the 'always stealing' issue. OP seemed to imply this was a more recent development, but maybe he hadn't tried editing Note Properties with Step Recorder open since the Dorchester 'fix' until now...?




    My bad.    I neglected to state that I tested Dorchester and it did steal Numeric Keypad keystrokes.  I never encountered the problem, because I don't typically edit notes or perform other actions that interrupt a Step Recording session.
     
    -- Ron

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