homebrew
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Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
I am a solo singer-guitarist and I use Sonar to produce backing tracks for my performances. I am running up-to-date Platinum on a "vanilla" Lenovo Z580 laptop running the latest version of Win 10, and I use the laptop for both my studio editing work and on stage. It all works fine, but I would like to move to a new 15" 2-in-1, with either a detachable keyboard or the kind that folds flat against the back of the display so I can place the computer vertically on a standard music stand and select tracks by touch when performing, instead of using the keyboard with the laptop on a flat-topped stand. Does anyone here have any experience, good or bad, with such a setup, and are there any particular features I should be looking for or avoiding, or any other recommendations? I'm looking at several computers in the $500-$800 range. Preview
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abacab
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/29 16:59:10
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☄ Helpfulby homebrew 2016/08/30 09:54:24
homebrew
I would like to move to a new 15" 2-in-1, with either a detachable keyboard or the kind that folds flat against the back of the display so I can place the computer vertically on a standard music stand and select tracks by touch when performing, instead of using the keyboard with the laptop on a flat-topped stand.
Does anyone here have any experience, good or bad, with such a setup, and are there any particular features I should be looking for or avoiding, or any other recommendations? I'm looking at several computers in the $500-$800 range.
I don't have any personal knowledge of any of the 2-in-1 laptops, but here is a search on Amazon for 2-in-1, 15 inch, Windows 10, with 8 or 16 GB RAM. Looks like with 8 GB there are some models in the $600-900 range. The 16GB seem to run $900 and up. Everybody these days say that the best upgrade is an SSD for performance. Also space for a 2nd HDD is a plus. https://www.amazon.com/gp...48&rnid=2257851011
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/29 19:29:43
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☼ Best Answerby homebrew 2016/08/30 09:54:42
I tried touch screen live and found it was impossible because of either my callouses or sweaty fingers.. I use a footswitch for both song advance and start /stop. I use a second footswitch on a second laptop just for lyrics. I 've been using the X key's USB footswitch for 12 years now. One of the micro switches died and they sent me 3 new ones free of charge. Built like a tank. They've come down in price I paid $250 for mine. They are now $130. http://xkeys.com/xkeys/xkfootRear.php I was looking for a second footswitch and took a chance on a off the shelf USB model for $30. Well the middle switch died after a few gigs but I only use it to scroll a power point show I made with my lyrics so 2 switches is fine. So even though I don't recommend the cheapo model you at least could see if you like the idea of foot control. I could never work any other way. As you know taking your hand off your guitar can lead to mishaps and loud unwanted sounds. http://www.dx.com/p/usb-triple-action-foot-switch-keyboard-control-foot-pedal-56508?tc=CAD&gclid=CLax-57i584CFQKTfgodQLsN6Q#.V8TDwGD2aUk The way these devices work is you program macro's using supplied software and assign what keystrokes to the footswitch. Like Sonar, for play you program the Spacebar etc. 
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homebrew
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 10:04:04
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Thanks for the tip re: touchscreen vs. footswitches. I solved the lyrics scrolling issue without needing a second screen by creating chord/lyric sheets, as many pages as needed for each song, exporting them as images, and then using Windows MovieMaker to assemble them into a "movie" which changes screen pages at appropriate times in the song. I import the resulting .wmv or .mp4 into the Sonar .cwp file and size the video window so that the left and right sides of the Sonar screen are still visible to open and close files, etc. I have measure numbers at key points on each page, and I also display Sonar's "Big Time" window on the screen, so it's easy to keep myself in sync with the backing track. I'd be glad to send you an example if you're interested.
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Beagle
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 12:19:22
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Cactus Music
I tried touch screen live and found it was impossible because of either my callouses or sweaty fingers..
I use a footswitch for both song advance and start /stop. I use a second footswitch on a second laptop just for lyrics.
I 've been using the X key's USB footswitch for 12 years now. One of the micro switches died and they sent me 3 new ones free of charge. Built like a tank. They've come down in price I paid $250 for mine. They are now $130.
http://xkeys.com/xkeys/xkfootRear.php
I was looking for a second footswitch and took a chance on a off the shelf USB model for $30. Well the middle switch died after a few gigs but I only use it to scroll a power point show I made with my lyrics so 2 switches is fine.
So even though I don't recommend the cheapo model you at least could see if you like the idea of foot control.
I could never work any other way. As you know taking your hand off your guitar can lead to mishaps and loud unwanted sounds.
http://www.dx.com/p/usb-triple-action-foot-switch-keyboard-control-foot-pedal-56508?tc=CAD&gclid=CLax-57i584CFQKTfgodQLsN6Q#.V8TDwGD2aUk
The way these devices work is you program macro's using supplied software and assign what keystrokes to the footswitch. Like Sonar, for play you program the Spacebar etc.
Johnny - are you using this for live gigs? can you explain more what you mean by setting up the macros? what kind of macros? what exactly do they do? I've been using my ipad for sheet music using forscore (ipad app) for creating set lists of sheet music/chordsheets (pdfs) and I either use my finger to change pages or I use Air Turn foot pedal. I recently bought a 2 in 1 and I want to use it with the Air Turn, but I'm having a REALLY difficult time finding a windows program anywhere close to similar to forscore. homebrew - sorry for the derail! FWIW - I just bought a 2in1, but it cost me $1500 and I didn't get a 2nd HDD with it - which I DO wish it had and if I were to be in the market again, I'd definitely want that 2nd HDD. OR a huge SSD if only 1. check my post a few below regarding laptops for sonar.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 15:08:17
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Hey Reese, yes I've been using the X keys for live gigs for over 12 years now. The first time I switched to using a laptop for live playback of my backing tracks I hated having to let go of my guitar to toggle the keys.
I used to have a footswitch system for my Atari midi set up. It used the Joystick port to go up and down the set list and stop /start and most important the PANIC button to kill stuck midi notes.
I soon found out about the X keys and ordered it and it's been with me at 100's of gigs.
As I said I also tried a cheapo footswitch which works but I don't think they are dependable enough to recommend for live use. The X keys is the best of them all by far and the company has excellent support and good software.
A Macro is just another word for keystrokes.
The software works by choosing the pedal you wish to assign and set it in record mode and hit the key. This saves that keystroke.. or combination of keystrokes to the device.
I use Win Amp for playback so I have it set to correspond to start/ stop and playlist advance. I wish it had 4 pedals as my other wish would be playlist back. I have to do that with my finger. But it's pretty rare as I stick to my playlist. If I skip a song I will move it into a later set on my break. That's what I love about using Win Amp. sooooo easy to make and change playlists. And save them for the next gig.
Someday I might giver Sonar a go just to have the MIDI changing my effects. But I only need the stereo wave file for my backing tracks, I see no advantage to having to "mix" multi track at gigs. That's sounds like a pita.
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Beagle
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 15:38:12
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thanks Johnny sounds like it works well for you!
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homebrew
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 16:39:49
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Johnny V & Beagle - I use Sonar on stage, because my setup includes a Digitech Vocalist and a guitar effects unit, both midi-controlled. I use midi to choose the vocal harmony type and send chord changes, to turn harmony on and off as needed, and to change guitar sound for different songs, solos, etc. Since all of these actions are incorporated into the backing tracks I build in the studio, they require no input from me during performance.
We seem to be getting even further 'derailed' here, but who cares?
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/30 19:29:28
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No not derailed, it's all about sharing tips on live performance. And like I said I want to do what your doing someday. I miss having MIDI change my rig like I did in the 80's with a midi only rig. And finding the right combination of gear in this new fangled era is not as easy as one would think. We have way to many paths we can choose now, digital mixers that bring you cold beer and vocal processing that make you sound even better than you already hopefully were! It's just what to use and how to set it all up so it actually works every time without fail. A computer can be the heart of the system too.. Myself I've using very old laptops right now, but if I do go the live Sonar route I'll be looking just like you at the best option. A tablet? A little micro box, a laptop or yep, a 2 in 1 looks very promising too. I don't play as a single performer much anymore, but when I do I like it to be fast set up and bullet proof. Anyhow. Some good tips in this thread so thank. Glad to hear from someone who is using Sonar live and that it can work.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/08/30 19:51:43
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patm300e
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/31 07:14:21
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homebrew
Thanks for the tip re: touchscreen vs. footswitches. I solved the lyrics scrolling issue without needing a second screen by creating chord/lyric sheets, as many pages as needed for each song, exporting them as images, and then using Windows MovieMaker to assemble them into a "movie" which changes screen pages at appropriate times in the song. I import the resulting .wmv or .mp4 into the Sonar .cwp file and size the video window so that the left and right sides of the Sonar screen are still visible to open and close files, etc. I have measure numbers at key points on each page, and I also display Sonar's "Big Time" window on the screen, so it's easy to keep myself in sync with the backing track. I'd be glad to send you an example if you're interested.
This is genius! Kinda like your own LIVE Karaoke machine!
 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/31 10:33:29
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I thought of doing that at one time. Win Amp or any player will play movies. So you turn all your backing tracks into movies instead of waves and there's your lyrics. The movie could be a simple as just one or more pages. Funny thing is back in 1980's when I used my Atari system I had lyric display when the song started. We all used the Pro Midi Player which had the footcontrol and lyric display. Jeff lived here in GRand Forks. He later worked for Roland and designed the editor for the MT 32. http://www.jdkoftinoff.com/main/Historic_Projects/The_Pro_MIDI_Player/
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homebrew
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/31 16:18:11
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I started using the Vocalist and midi-controlled effects units many years ago, so I've been using Cakewalk in performance since pre-Windows days, long before I got my first laptop. I used a looseleaf binder for my lyric/chord sheets, which meant I had to turn pages and select files for every song. When the binder got too big for a single volume, I started looking for a way to do everything on a laptop, and the movie idea was a natural step. My next challenge is to get rid of the keyboard. I'm going to try the touchscreen tablet first, especially since I tend to work without a predetermined setlist, but I'll keep the footswitch idea in mind as an alternative approach.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/08/31 21:03:24
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I'm lucky as I've always had a good memory for lyrics.. nothing else however,,, not good with names or Capital Cities. So I only really need the words for new song for a while and then those I could also remember. As I get older this is of course changing.. faster than I would like. So I'm finding I will need lyrics from now on or make a fool of myself.
The idea of lyrics always poping up when a song is started is definatly the way to go. To bad there really is no software dedicated to live performance. The topic has come up a few times here.
My wish list.
4 or so audio tracks is all I would need..even just 2 but seperating Bass would be nice.
Midi output to control lights, vocal processing and guitar effects or even drive a live instrument
Lyrics pop up when song starts.
On the fly set list editing, creating and saving.
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Beagle
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/09/01 12:13:23
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personally I don't want the lyrics moved in a "timed" manner, tho, I want to be able to move them from page to page when I am ready; much like powerpoint is done for church congregations.
there are few programs which can do that for windows. there's dozens of them for ipad.
last night I just used adobe reader. it's not elegant and doesn't have all of the bells and whistles that the ipad sheet music readers have (like Forscore) but it worked. and my AirTurn pedal will advance it, so I guess that's what I'll use.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/09/01 21:58:05
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Nothing wrong with PDF. It can be read by almost any device. Including E readers.
That was another thing I tried. I have a few E readers kicking around. The screen was just way to small. If I get an iPad it will have to be 10".
For now the power point is great because you can use the slide sorter to rearrange the songs. I can make and save set lists in Win Amp, then do the same with Power point. I name them so they match. I do like the fact the laptop displaying my lyrics is a 15.5" screen.
But it's a pita to balance the laptop up high where you can read it, I'm using a x type keyboard stand at it's narrowest setting. Laptops really want to fall over backwards because of the screen. An iPad would be easy to mount on my mike stand. I already have the holder I picked up on a MF stupid deal for $9. If I get the iPad I will also get that footswicth your using.
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soens
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/09/02 04:01:25
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iDisplay is one option. If you have an ipad you can hook it up wifi to your computer and use it as a 2nd touch screen monitor. The ipad pro is 12.9".
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Beagle
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Re: Moving Platinum from laptop to 2-in-1
2016/09/02 11:20:21
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Cactus Music
Nothing wrong with PDF. It can be read by almost any device. Including E readers.
That was another thing I tried. I have a few E readers kicking around. The screen was just way to small. If I get an iPad it will have to be 10".
For now the power point is great because you can use the slide sorter to rearrange the songs. I can make and save set lists in Win Amp, then do the same with Power point. I name them so they match. I do like the fact the laptop displaying my lyrics is a 15.5" screen.
But it's a pita to balance the laptop up high where you can read it, I'm using a x type keyboard stand at it's narrowest setting. Laptops really want to fall over backwards because of the screen. An iPad would be easy to mount on my mike stand. I already have the holder I picked up on a MF stupid deal for $9. If I get the iPad I will also get that footswicth your using.
I've been using the 9.7" iPad 4th Gen for almost 4 years every week. I normally use the iKlip from IK Multimedia to hold it and that way I can bring it really up close to my nose so I can read it because I have trouble reading it at the distance of a music stand - it's right in the spot between the bottom of the bifocal and the distance. (I tried progressives and never could get used to them). anyway - I've used it for a while, but I have always thought it was too small and wanted something bigger. I thought about the iPad pro when it came out (12.9") but instead I've jumped back into windows using a 2 in 1 HP laptop. it folds completely back on itself and has a touchpad screen and it's HUGE (screen size = 15.6"!). too big and too heavy for the iKlip, tho. Have to use a music stand. I've only used it for "gigging" once and it worked OK. but one time is not enough data points! we'll see how it goes!
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